(((T))) You're going to be just fine, Truth. You're taking the bull by the horns, accepting the things you can't change and changing the things you can.

hi and welcome. Please know we at mip really care, and we do our best to share our experience, not meaning to put anyone down or critique what one is saying.

Reading thru all the comments, I got this feeling of, "We cannot rationalize insanity." We honestly cannot say what makes another person do what they are doing! Not anyone A or not.

It honestly does not matter as whatever it is it is hurting you and your child. We cannot change him, we cannot stop him from abusing you and your child. What we can do is help you and support you in changing the situation. Supervised visitation, sounds like the child is old enough to carry a cell phone, possibly have him call if he is uncomfortable and things are not going right. A child needs to feel he has a place to go or has an out when he feels unsafe.

I apologize your original post for some reason is not here so I think I remember you have a son.

This is more, it does not matter what the A does or if he is drinking, on program or whatever.It simply is a question with no answer sadly. It never, ever does any good to try to analize this disease.

It is manipulating you, abusing you, that is what matters. I have seen many people and myself protect the child and themselves from the A. Whether they are drinking, stark raving sober, patterning we have NO idea. So we change ourselves.

You are a wise woman. My AH had years on program in AA. I am telling you I learned he has multiple personality disorder that is most often diagnosed by the family. Well it was very apparent to me. He was horribly abused by his father as his whole family was. Even on program I  knew it. no question.

He had broken off into many personalities I could name and did. Sadly I lost my dear husband to a brain surgery, the violence and the change in him to a monster made me have to send him away. My husband I married was dead.

Please keep coming. please. We would love to support you and your child. love, debilyn 

Thank you Debilyn I am not certain what we are experiencing. However, I am starting to wonder if he has a dual diagnosis. I have actually thought that for some time. (Five Years Actually) I also know he has not dealt with the original trauma. He had supervised visits and was given non-supervised visits because he was doing the counseling. Then he stopped and went back to AA and it started all over again.

Your experiences are valid and your husband does sound emotionally abusive in some ways. Only your illogical extrapolations about AA making people worse are off. I can see how you would arrive at those assumptions even though.

Amen.
You guys have been busy all night! :)

I'm accepting people today and have peace.

I feel there is a huge difference between judgement and discernment. In this situation, I am discerning if this is a safe situation for myself and my son. It does not feel safe. I am trying to validate myself. I do know what I am experiencing. I am beginning to see a clear message from my higher power. It seems to be the same theme. I spent a long time going down the "wrong path for me" because I would get guilty feelings from speaking up about my experience. I started to share in my f2f and the topic makes a lot of people uncomfortable. It is taboo. I don't really worry about that anymore. I spent a lot of time wasted taking my own inventory because I kept deferring to "experts in recovery". I figured out an expert is only a expert until they are presented with new information. If I didnt fit into their box, i was "told" what was in my head and my heart and how I "should" think. The whole experience made me really sick. I ended up with PTSD. Thank my HP for helping me through that

If there is someone that can guide me in a new direction, they will be put in my path. I found two new things I can try on here and that is great. !!!!!!

It is funny because my son is young for a cell phone and I kept getting a gut feeling I should be getting him one. I love it when my HP just puts someone in my path and says "do it". I know now when the message is for me because it is delivered with "kindness"

Hello Truth, how old is your son? is he old enough for Al-Ateen? Part of what I got from Al-Anon was that I don't have to let anyone emotionally abuse me. I have the power to hang up the phone, turn around and walk away, state I am not going to discuss this with you while you are in this condition; and I have the right to use that power to protect myself and if I choose not to protect myself, its my own fault. When you say he only does his abusive stuff with no witnesses, it says he knows you will allow it to happen.

I don't think emotional abuse is as tied to alcoholism as it is tied to co-dependency; in my house we call it throwing "dung" (using the more vulgar word) on the walls - anything we don't want happening in our house, people who try to throw dung around, ruining our peace, is not allowed. But as Grateful says, co-dependents focus on "why did you throw dung on my walls" rather than standing up for ourselves and saying - "no, you aren't allowed to do that to me.

I am going to do the steps again on the abuse. That was the best suggestion I have ever been given.

I might have to get a new sponsor, but that is okay too.

Thank you for your patience and understanding. I wish you all love and light on your journey

Program has taught me that to" co-sign" someone elses mistaken ideas is just as harmful as silence, denial or pretend  .  It also suggest that I keep an open mind and  take what I like and leave the rest.   

Program has taught me offering unwanted advice is just as harmful.

I feel hurt when you are "co-signing" my thoughts.

I know what is in my heart.

Your inventory took all of AA (based on false assumptions) in addition to your ex. Also, nobody took your inventory. You were only suggested to take you own.

-- Edited by hotrod on Saturday 22nd of March 2014 06:53:07 PM

"such efforts to control and silence others would be a good start to your inventory" - That is taking my inventory. Please just respect my boundary.

I am allowed to describe the behaviors I am experiencing. That is discernment.

Then the question should have been "Why does my ex" do this...not an entire group of people you don't know. That would have been closer to discernment. But also just because you experience something as feeling a certain way does not mean it is that way. My experience has been that when people are highly invested playing victim, any inference that the person might change their view is met with an accusation of gaslighting and minimizing their "abuse."

What other sober alcoholic (aside from me now cuz I know I'm being challenging here some) have you had experience with acting worse when they are in program? Also, how do you know it's even related to that at all. Honestly, I'm seeing an experience with ONE that may or may not be related to alcoholism or his program at all and then judgments about many. So it's not questioning the experience but the stereotypes formed along with it.