Emotional Abuse - Al-Anon Family Group

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

Emotional Abuse

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

I am asking because no matter what boundaries I put in place it just does not end. I am trying to co-parent but I actually do not think it is possible. My ex-A has extreme black and white thinking when he is in the program. Does this make sense? Does anyone have a good technique?

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Is it prevalent? Where are the statistics? Emotional abuse is common with this disease, I think everyone here would agree with you but if an alcoholic is working this program then they are on a journey of self improvement so abuse is due to the alcohol withdrawal, not the program. The behaviour makes sense with active alcoholism and early recovery but its not the program. Your child has the chance of having a healthy father if he remains in aa.
I mean do you actually know this program? Have you tried it? Why are you blaming it when it helps millions around the world? Are you using aa to keep from real, hard facts in your marriage?

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Truth...sorry thats going on for you and emotional abuse is part of the "self centered to the extreme" personality. The put downs and blaming and ridicule are also part of the manipulation and control tactics in the disease. Emotional abuse isn't called for and for me the solution is in the Al-Anon program. Don't know if you are a member of the face to face groups and they were the best thing that could have ever happened for me. There are many solutions inside of Al-Anon. Expectations that the abuse will end when the alcoholic is in AA isn't well grounded as a lot of the character defect either will or will not disappear. Some defects are part of the person drinking or not. Let Al-Anon rebuild your esteem. ((((hugs)))) smile

Mirandac · Veteran Member

I guess i will way in. Emotional abuse is also sign of a dry drunk acting out. Mine ah goes to
Multiple aa meetings a week( last two years)and has been dry for 28 years. Since we started
having marital problems and he started his emotional recovery it has been a nasty roller
Coaster ride into hell and back. Yes alanon helps but trying to overcome the ongoing emotional
And verbal abuse with boundaries is a constant battle. They know where your buttons are and
How to get a rise out of you. I say the serenity prayer alot.

Mimi3 · Senior Member

Good Morning Truth~

I'm not sure how long you have been a member of Al-Anon or your spouse a member of AA but as our partners continue to grow in AA, all things change, they get worse and then they get better, they get worse and they get better....or at least that was my experience but the good news is our family stood a chance as long as he stayed sober one day at a time:) and I stayed active in Al-Anon, with that being said, as you continue your journey in Al-Anon, you will learn words like "I'm sorry you feel that way" and remove yourself from the situation...I would leave and go to a meeting, go have coffee with my sponsor, go with a friend walking, take my children for a drive...

I have been a very grateful member of Al-Anon for a long time and the emotional abuse stopped as he stayed sober and I stayed proactive in me and my program:)

The more meetings I went to, the more involved I became, the less I focused on him and his program or lack of:) and then I could have the boundaries needed that worked for me to no longer live in the unacceptable behavior. So if you are going to f2f meetings, good for you! and If not, my suggestion is ALWAYS to seek and find some meetings in your area or a neighboring town, get a sponsor and work the 12 steps, you will be amazed!

The best is yet to come!! Keep Coming Back!!

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you to those who responded with kindness. It has been six years and I was just wondering because in the six years it has not stopped. I am no longer with the father, however the emotional abuse has started with my son. I feel hurt when one asks a honest question and are accused of blaming a program. It is not very helpful. In my opinion, "yes" it is prevalent because it is in the alcoholic. I will reframe my question because I was wondering about the timeframe.

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

This must be so frustrating watching your child experience what you experienced. It doesn't sound to me as though your ex is working the 12 steps....doing the "looks as if (attending meetings)" doesn't mean he is working a recovery program. He may never stop being a bully (I am not sure this description fits, it is just what came to my mind as I was typing) and it may not be part of the alcoholism. I don't know that I can offer any other ESH that will be helpful, I do feel for you, though.

Mirandac · Veteran Member

My ah was brought up to be emotional bully. My mil is not an a but is full of isms from
Her alcoholic father. Alanon has helped me see more clearly. It is a family disease. I
Sometimes have two bullys to-contend with not one.

Cathyinaz · ~*Service Worker*~

I think the abuse will never stop unless they can be honest with themselves and correct it. I know of someone that is non-alcoholic and blames others for their problems. I won't let it get to me and I tell him so. Sometimes the look I can give when he speaks his junk he has to stop because he knows it's not on me. I also never give him ammo

Let go Let God

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

There is also the notion that some people are just jerks whether dry A, wet A, codependent, butcher, baker, or candlestick maker. Some people are just a$$holes. Perhaps they will become self aware of it, perhaps they won't, but as far as I'm concerned, life is far too short to put up with them. I'm codependent myself, so if someone is a jerk, it's the perfect excuse to distance myself from them.

I hope your son can see what is happening, and that it isn't his fault that his father is a jerk. My dad is a non-A jerk, and I keep my distance from him. Show him the respect he deserves as my father (not so much as a human being) but I have as little contact as I can to keep my sanity and self-respect intact.

Kenny

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

I am sorry Truth, your right my response was unkind. I misinterpreted what you were saying. I thought you were attacking the 12 steps and people in the recovery program. I am so protective of it because it has changed my life and I think if its going wrong its not the program to blame. Besides that, I do understand I lived with someone with that extreme black and white thinking and its not good, it was the Alanon tools that helped me deal with this rationally.x

bud · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Truth - I'm glad you're here and I'm sorry you have this and I can relate. Alcoholism is a very powerful, cunning, and baffling disease that left untreated progresses and ends in insanity or death. For me, Alanon is a lifetime program where I can continually learn different perspectives and choices that help me better cope with life on life's terms. I imagine that AA is similar in that it is a program of progress and not perfection. I do not condone abuse and find it unacceptable. I have come to believe that boundaries are for myself and do not change someone else's behavior. With a lot of practice, I have learned to set meaningful boundaries that do improve my situation. I have found that the most efficient way to work this program is to work the steps with a sponsor.

Keep coming back- this program works!

In support

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

Emotional abuse is part of dysfunction and dysfunction is one of the foundations of the whole problem. As the saying is, "Hurt people hurt people." Being brought up in a situation of severe dysfunction damages people and they go on to damage other people. The alcoholism is a symptom something they adopt to help them cope. And then the alcoholism not only does not solve the problem, but it makes the rest of the dysfunction worse.

Taking away the alcohol takes away that one element, but it doesn't do the whole job. Recovery programs stress ways to change the patterns of dysfuction and abuse. But some people don't work their programs fully, some people don't have what it takes to stop the extreme self-centeredness, some people are just too damaged to make a lot of headway. As I experience it, taking away the alcohol lets you see what the underlying amount of damage is. Sometimes it is still too much for the person to end up very healthy. It's like if you're injured in a car crash some people recover fully, some people have physical problems for the rest of their lives.

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. It is painful and disappointing, and a challenge to deal with on an ongoing basis. I hope you have lots of support and I hope you'll keep coming back.

maryjane · ~*Service Worker*~

I think your A probably grew up and learned in an alcoholic family. My spouse grew up totally different from me. I see his upbringing as child abuse and he saw it as working hard. I thought his parents were terrible and didn't teach him how to deal with life except to reach for a bottle and party hard and forget. I did not grow up in alcoholism and he did. In comparison with his upbringing, I was pampered and coddled. So he learned his emotional abuse from his upbringing.... and it includes very black and white thinking and lots of competition and judgmentalism.

Part of the AA steps and traditions "should" be to learn a new way. It is up to your xa to do the work. Maybe he will and maybe he won't. In the meantime, you can learn to detach and teach your son the truth about the disease. I had four daughters to protect from the disease. Using the truth is the only way to deal with it. They are now in their 30's and they know they were affected (they were in denial for quite a few years) and they know they don't want to be that way themselves. There is AlATeen to help him with his emotions about his dad.

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you everyone for the responses. I am going back for another round of mediation. I don't communicate with him anymore unless through email. I cannot stand the yelling (raging)and the telling me how "resentful" I am. That I am manipulating when I ask him not to call his son a "whiny b....t". It is honestly worse when he is in the program and I don't understand why. It has been a pattern, enter the program and emotionally abuse me. When he is attending our child counseling and they are teaching all or nothing thinking (same as black and white), he is actually better. It is extremely frustrating because it is a pattern. Thank you for the information. I really still am very confused by the pattern but I know it is coming when he says "I started to go to meetings. "

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

That's strange. People usually get much better in meetings. Never known a soul to act worse from AA...only better.

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

He was abused as a child however he thinks the abuse was his fault. His dad was an alcoholic as well. His mom has suggested he attend Al-anon but he refuses. There is not much I can do except not speak to him, otherwise I start getting confused by the emotional abuse. At the time, I had no idea anyone really grew up this way. I never experienced this until I met him. While I have compassion for his experience, I just do not want to experience for myself or for our son. I am not okay with the cycle repeating.

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

It makes sense. Now you have someone who is sober and damaged. Thanks everyone. Pink That is because you only see them at meetings. You do not know how they behave behind closed doors.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Um...I work in a rehab and half the staff are in recovery also. I do know some that are jerks but I think they would be even bigger aholes if not for AA.

-- Edited by Debilyn on Friday 21st of March 2014 11:51:04 PM

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Also, after a long time in AA, many of my friends are also in recovery and I see them with their partners, kids, and spouses all the time...

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

Unless you are in their home, you cannot know how they behave. Some of the most charming people behave differently. My ex only behaves like this if we are alone at an exchange or on the telephone where no one can hear. He switches it off in front of others.

WorkingThroughIt · ~*Service Worker*~

When people put down the drink, their symptoms crop up. There is no more anesthetic.

This is where the 12 Steps (finding God) comes in as THE replacement.

Many people are on a "pink cloud" at first - oftentimes for a while - before the symptoms really come to surface (I was on one for many months.)

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

I get it now. AA is not going help if you are abused as a child and have now become an abuser.

Jen61 · ~*Service Worker*~

With my AH he was verbally abused by his mother as a child. He has been that way with me on and off. When he is actively drinking he becomes very verbally abusive. He brings up stuff that happened to me way before I even met him. I agree that they are way different behind closed doors. One night when his sister and our niece were over he was outrageous to me. Never in 37 years had they seen that part of him. Now they know. They can switch on and off just like a light. Take care and keep us posted on how you are doing.

Jen61 · ~*Service Worker*~

I feel AA can help but only if they work the program. If they go into it with a crummy attitude and feel nothing will change nothing will change. They stay the same.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

From what I hear, most spouses generally believe their sober alcoholic spouses act more calm and considerate when they are in program and going to meetings consistently. Judging what other sober alcoholics may or may not do based on 1 alcoholic who you divorced from and don't get along with is the more likely problem. I'm sorry you have these problems with your ex, but can tell you AA saved me and helped me be a much better person. My partner also agrees with this. Your views are your own but they are harmful and someone could die if they read them and thought they should not go to AA because it will turn them into a jerk....which is absurd, but active alcoholics are resistant enough to AA sadly and someone might buy that.

WorkingThroughIt · ~*Service Worker*~

Dear Truth (love the screen name)

It sounds like you and your ex could both use separate programs of recovery (for yourselves) but also to get better communication skills for the sake of your child.

Several things could be going on with your ex but only he knows what those things are. Whatever you need to understand about him you will learn as you do your own work.

I have no idea which program either of you qualify for for starters but your heart will tell you what is right for you.

I wish you the best.

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

Pink I am sorry you feel that way.

WorkingThroughIt · ~*Service Worker*~

PS
There are a lot of sick people in AA.

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

I know I am not responsible for anyone else death. I am responsible for understanding this for my child. I have no control over what other people choose. This is my experience.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

There are a lot of sick folks in AA. Generally speaking, they are sicker before getting there though.

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

We do not have the same experience. That does not mean mine is any less valid. I am sorry you don't like it. I am here to share my experience and understand where to go from here.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi, Truth. Welcome to MIP. The As in my life have been emotionally abusive. I couldn't do anything about it but did find ways in Al-Anon to limit my exposure to them or choose to QTIP. Learning to inventory myself helped me discover things I could change and I learned that although I wasn't emotionally abusive, too, I was unconsciously setting myself to be abused. It was part of my familiar. My sponsor has been a big help in teaching me how to validate myself and let what family members' thought, felt or said be on them and not on me. I am glad you are in Al-Anon. It can help us stop accepting abuse and start protecting our emotional wellbeing in new ways. Keep coming back here, too. Our MIP family is a great help in growing through some of the trauma we've suffered or are suffering.

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you for the post. What is QTIP? We have done two communication classes with counsellors for two years. I learned so much about abuse in those classes. I did not even recognize the emotional abuse before those classes. I have worked the steps twice. It was good for the first two years with the ex in the program and then he just got angrier and started raging. I would be really interested in your experience.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Quit Taking It Personally - QTIP. There is an old joke about how you can tell a codependent - when you hit them in the face while they stand holding a door for you they'll chase you down the street asking you what they did. That was me with family members who weren't just having a bad day once in a great, great while. I'd keep my heart open to them or open it easily even when I knew there might be a vicious reaction to me if I was simply sitting in a chair watching TV. I'm not exaggerating this. Deep down, I really believed there must have been something I did to trigger their reaction to me. It was easier to blame myself for their behavior than to admit they were getting away with being cruel just because they could do it.

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

Ah I just clicked. They have been suppressing emotions for years and they are going to come to the surface.

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

That is me. I kept thinking if I worked my program harder. If I did more communication classes. If I go back to mediation. Besides the fact that he keeps telling me this. I realize I am taking the blame.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Could be true and there are ways to express emotions that are not abusive or harmful. I made allowances for those kinds of things until I realized there was no excuse for abusive behavior of any sort. There might be an explanation but there is no excuse. It took me awhile to get that and after I did, I learned to set boundaries that were right for me.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

He will be emotionally abusive as long as he chooses that little personal pleasure rather than the sacrifice of giving it up. I learned that it wouldn't matter and didn't matter what I did or didn't do, I couldn't control the way my family members thought, felt or behaved. I had to do a Step 1 on that, too. Just like alcoholism, I didn't cause, couldn't control and couldn't cure their abusive behaviors. I could make changes in me and in my behaviors that helped me stop chasing after cruelly behaved people who punched me in the face while I held the door for them. I'm glad you're here, Truth. I hope you'll find the encouragement, support and respectful treatment here that you deserve.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.