The material presented
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Greetings, all. This is my very first post, and I need some help with some issues I'm having. My wife is in rehab, and today was our first visitation. During the presentation, the speaker started outlining all the responsibilities that will fall on me and my kids. Here's the problem: I don't think I have enough left.
I have been beaten up by her alcohol abuse over the past 26 years. My kids are deeply scarred and our marriage, I'm afraid, might be irretreivably broken. She is upbeat and excited about this new chapter she may be writing in her life, yet she spent most of our meeting talking with a couple of friends that came with me, and spent much of the rest of the time discussing friends she has made in rehab and their problems. She obviously wants to mother people in the rehab center, but she HAS two kids who NEED a mother. I need a wife. These issues were not addressed by her today, nor did she ask how things are going at home, where I am struggling to keep things together. I know this is supposed to be about her, and her recovery, but what about the rest of us? We hurt. We despair. We need her, too.
I have been to a couple al-anon meetings, and while it's a comfort to know I'm not alone, I have yet to find the answer to a very simple and basic question: What does one do when their patience is all gone? Where does one go to get patience? How does one manufacture patience?
We are hanging by a thread, all because of her alcohol abuse. I'm not sure I even care enough to be a part of her recovery. If you wish to be judgemental and criticize me for being this honest, have at it. I am having trouble here, and I would hope someone might be able to advise me.
I can completely understand what you are going through, I have been there myself. I once went to an open AA meeting when my husband was in rehab and was so angry that I had to sit on my hands. All this clapping and hooting for 24 hours, one week and on and on.. I just kept thinking to myself, sure they are locked in here for god's sake, of course they have 24 hours....
I wanted to know who was going to clap for me, who was going to support me, who was going to acknowledge my pain,
guess what...???
I found out... today I have tons of people who have been where I have been, understand what I am going through and will be there to love and support me unconditionally and they are in THESE ROOMS....
So, as I said when I started this reply... Welcome to MIP and to AL-Anon. WE are so glad that you are here. You will find love and support here when you think that you have nothing left of yourself to give...reach out, ask for help, it will be there...
HI wbfox, I am new here too. My husband actually goes into rehab Tuesday. I am scared cause I dont know what will come of it!! I want to be hopefull but I'm terrified for some reason!!!! I think you have every right to be upset that your wife acted that way, but YOU need to heal before you can heal whats between you two. If you never heal then the two of you will remain broken. I know it is hard, I know if my parents knew they would push for me to divorse him, I dont want that!!!! Try to understand what YOUR going through and then you may understand her too!! And it is NOT all about her....it is about you too!!!! :) The time I have been here surprisingly is helping some!! That in itself is sobering....no pun intended!! It is almost comforting!!!! Maybe it will help you too!!!! This is only my second day!! :) Do for yourself!!!! You are just as broken as she is!! Hope to see you around!!
Yeah, once again it is all about the alcoholic, eh? Surprise surprise....
Actually, in early sobriety, her attitude is necessary. She has a fatal disease, and if she doesn't do something about it, it will kill her. She needs to focus totally on whatever aids her sobriety. It's life or death, and she needs to take it seriously and make it the most important thing in her life just now. Fine.
However, YOU don't have to make it the most important thing in yours. Her sobriety is her problem, not yours. The way for you to be supportive is to leave her to it, don't bitch about her meetings and time spent with her program, wait a bit before loading every resentment and pent up anger you have for past behaviour on her. You don't, however, have to spare her every setback or problem, you don't have to tiptoe around her and treat her like an invalid or a grenade set to go off. The only way she will realize how strong she is is to face some of the grownup worries that you have been shouldering all this time. Just don't unload them all at once, this first three months or so.
So what are you supposed to do with all that resentment, anger, fear, despair, loneliness? Bring 'em to us. Your wife doesn't need to hear all that right now (she will, in time, have to hear at least some of it) but we don't mind. Get to face to face meetings - yes, she can watch the kids a couple times a week so you can make a meeting - read what you can get your hands on, and come here. Slowly, you'll learn how to heal - this program works almost organically, there are no clear instructions, but if you work on the steps, if you read, and if you listen to what others are saying, you will learn - and you will learn how to set yourself some boundaries and protect yourself. Alcoholics are the most selfish people in the world, and if we let them, they will eat our souls. The trick is not to let them, while still allowing ourselves to love. It can be done.
Welcome to MIP! What to do: they tell us to focus on our selves, sometimes we are sicker than the alcoholic because of the reasons you stated. You are not alone. In Alanon we learn to use many tools and slogans. One of the best is one day at a time. Keep coming back!
I've been where you are. My A and I had a telephone fight when he was in treatment the first time. I really felt hurt when he sounded so upbeat and posative when I was at home trying to make everything continue to run. I was exhausted, fearful and I found out later-jealous!. He was able to take a break from the real world and focus on himself. I felt I hadn't ever been able to focus on myself!! So there he is getting his meals fixed, having recreation hour, and getting himself well. I hated him for it.
You have a right to feel angry. From my own experiance I would suggest you focus on yourself and continue with Al-Anon. If they have a family week at her treatment center you might want to go and learn what you can do for yourself and your children.
Also remember it took a lot of years for your marriage to fall apart and it's going to take time to mend if that is what your Higher Power has in store for you.
welcome to this website!!! it takes a lot of courage to just 'put stuff out there'. whether at a face to face meeting or in this wonderful haven. be assured, you are not alone in the journey you are taking -- and we hearby resent the right to be judgemental! for a lot of us, and i'll just speak for me, for me of us, this is a safe haven; i've been blessed to receive the love, care and support from this site and the rest of my Al-anon family, that my family of origin, cannot offer me -- i love my family, but they do not understand, or the logistics are just too much. also, we try not give advice (per se), but rather give you our ESH, experience, strength and hope.
that said, i completely understand your bitter feelings. *lin* made a few very good points that i would like to double- the disease is fatal, your wife needs to do whatever she can to keep the Aism at bay. you are left with being the responsible one,,,,, aaagain. if she doesn't work her program -- she might not ever be able to share those responsibilities.
as hard as doing those things are, being able to LET GO of the frustration and resentment has saved my life. i am sooooooooooo angry at my wife for the things she did, is doing, and will do. if the tools and techniques weren't taught to me by reading the literature, sharing, and talking -- my guts would be splattered all over my walls -- i would've just burst. one of the sayings is Let go and Let God. i interpret that as "well, it ain't doing me or anyone else any good, so i'll give it to my Higher Power and let it be gone." They say God never gives us more than we can handle -- at least, not without giving you the opportunity to find the tools to handle it.
keep coming back, my friend yours in recovery cj
P.S. It's always good to see another guy around here----
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time to stop going to the hardware store to buy bread.
confused wrote: ...I wanted to know who was going to clap for me, who was going to support me, who was going to acknowledge my pain,
guess what...???
I found out... today I have tons of people who have been where I have been, understand what I am going through and will be there to love and support me unconditionally and they are in THESE ROOMS....
So, as I said when I started this reply... Welcome to MIP and to AL-Anon. WE are so glad that you are here. You will find love and support here when you think that you have nothing left of yourself to give...reach out, ask for help, it will be there...
Welcome to YOUR RECOVERY!!
Lynn
I totally agree with this.
If you give Alanon the time, find meetings where you can take the kids, eventually, well my experience was that it was like going to a Spa. It was "Me Time." I felt decadent, selfish, indulgent, spoiled, thoroughly wonderful indulging in myself. Me, me, me, me, me!!!! Glorious!!!
In our little meetings we started doing a lot of laughing. Weren't we supposed to be drippy drudges?? I mean, the AA's get coffee and cake!!!! I've never once been to an Alanon meeting where there's coffee and cake. Coffee would keep us up all night and cake isn't healthy. The AA's don't care about that.
If you can, investigate the round-ups and the big conferences and make a commitment to go there if they have an Alanon element. They had a yearly camp-out in the community I used to live in, but they are all around. I haven't gone to the big ones. I think you'd like it, and there could be some arrangement for the kids, you didn't mention their ages. You need to have some fun and relaxation.
My patience is gone too, I think fun is the key. I swim a lot and all my worries dissolve in the water.
Welcome wbfox !!! I want to start this off with you are in the right place, by being here. You will never know a more caring, loving and understanding group of people than here at MIP. I have been in the exact same place as you are right now, and to be honest, I slip back there. I am only human. I understand the hatred, resentment and anger. I have worked so hard and long on making myself happy. I have been pretty successful, too. I have learned to realize that I have a much better time when it is me and my kids, and not my A. If he joins in, it is a bonus, and alot of times a let down.I try to make the best of every time, with or without him.I have learned to detach from him. I do not have ANY expectations of or from him. My life seems to be easier and happier that way. I do not expect him to fulfill my life, I do that myself now with a great deal of help from my children. There have so many times that I have said, that if it comes down to me leaving him, I would never look back. There are also times that I do say, that if he was to go into rehab, I have no energy left to give him any support. And there are times that I say, that if he does decide to get help, I doubt I would stay with him, and have to continue to live with his problem, which is a life long disease. But, I am still here with him, after all this time. I believe that there is a reason why. I do not intend to leave today, and turn my back, and tommarrow isn't here yet. I live day by day. I have lowered my expectations , I have learned to enjoy things that I never thought I could enjoy without him and I focus on myself and my children. He is still a big part of my life, I try to stay focused , and when he does go out and use, I am not sitting here going crazy and thinking what you are , that he is out, not a care in the world except for himself. There are times , that I do slip, and that is when I come here and read the posts and go to alanon meetings. There will be a day, when you will feel different, and better, but you will do that in your own pace and in your own time. It can take a while, but when you do get there, you will feel a peace inside of you and you will know it. It is an awesome feeling, to be able to be happy and you made yourself that way. I was always so embarrased to tell anyone, that my A was addicted to crack and pain pills. It actually made my own recovery so slow. I never thought people would understand the situation and think I was crazy for even staying here with him for all this time. I lived a double life it seemed, and I was miserable. But thanks to my HP, everyone here and at alanon, and some great friends and family, I am okay today and happy. I do see a consular every week, I was petrified to go and see someone, but all is still okay here. I feel a little silly at times. I was amazed to hear my story from so many people, it was relieving, to be honest. I wasn't alone, no one wants to be alone. And now you are not alone. Keep coming back. Take it day by day. - Kim
Hey Fox you know what? You and the kids are sick too. It is very ok for you NOT to go to her rehab meetings.
Of course you are sick to death of it. Been there, done that. I got where I did not even take him to rehab anymore. you are on your own honey. The only way they are going to be strong enough to possibly get on a program, is on their own.
You know what you and the kids need. Go for it. Take care of you, rest, play, work, go to face to face meetings. Get your kids books on alcoholism. Get them to alateen.
It is also ok to just go away for a couple nights, go camping go visit friends. Get completely away from the whole dang drama. it is ok to go to movies, go for walks. Get a dog and give it attention and receive it back.
get the kids away from the horrible disease. Teach them it is ok not to dwell on it.
We forget to laugh, forget to plug our eyebrows, forget to dust the top shelf. the disease takes everything from us.
ya hand your wife over to your hp. Let him take care of her. Forget her for awhile. When ya think of it, shake your head and immediately think of something else, even if it is a hammer.
right now i am moving yet again into my bunkhouse on my barn. i cannot afford my main house and do not like it anyway. A ruined everything. The A disease that is. I really only have my life and animals now. My truck is dead, but about to be fixed, cannot afford my house.
My credit is probably minus four hundred, from me having a one credit.
I feel not to h with him. It is totallyup to him to do what he needs to do.
I thank everyone for your kind and heartfelt replies. I'm afraid there is more to my problem. The marriage is over...that's apparant to both of us. Here's my question: how do I deal with separating while she's in recovery? Am I putting her at risk?
wb, welcome to alanon:) Stick with us or with whatever alanon groups you're comfortable with. No matter what happens with your A, you will be a better person for it. I like our slogans, steps, traditions, and Let Go and Let God is a big one with me when I feel overloaded and confused. Then LIVE and Let Live.
Just my opinion...take what you like and leave the rest.
Welcome WB! Glad you are here, and hope you continue to come back.
You received a lot of good thoughts on the topic you posted. One thing I have learned, is Alanon is a learning process, and it takes time. It took most of us a long time to get here, and it will take time for us to begin to heal....but not THAT long! LOL
Sadly, I don't know what to say about separation while your AW is in treatment. I guess you just need to do the best thing for you and the children now. You guys have taken a back seat for a long time, it sounds like. On the other hand, we are often told not to make any major decisions for a year. I say, do whatever makes YOU comfortable. You and the children are the ones who will have to live with your decision, whether your wife gets better or not. I guess what I am trying to say is that her recovery should not be based on what you do or don't do....just as OUR recovery should not be based on what our A's do or don't do.
If you can stand it, give the program six months or so before ending things - you may find that things look different with a bit of recovery under both your belts. Or maybe separation at this point, with divorce a while down the road.
If that is not possible, then try to keep the tone civil, both for her sake and for yours - you don't want to be reproaching yourself later. It is possible to split without being vindictive or harsh. You need to do what you honestly and without vengeful thoughts feel is best for you and the kids.
Her recovery is not your business, and you are not responsible for it. She will probably not see it that way, and will most likely try to blame you for whatever happens. However, just because someone tries to hand you the blame, does not mean that you have to pick it up.
That's so true...I told my (adult) daughter this morning: "the guilt window is closed."
We had had a couple discussions about separating, and during sunday's visit, she mentioned twice that she was gonna beat this "whether we're together or not", so she obviously knows we're in deep trouble.
Bottom line: I have no patience left. I have no energy or enthusiasm to be part of her recovery. Both my kids (24 and 17) as well as many (most) of our friends are telling me to break it off, and I'm leaning that way, too...but I'm really struggling with abandonment and resposibility issues.
I know there are no east answers, but I have received lots of great input from you guys, especially the part about doing what makes ME happy. My kids and I crave normalcy, but will probably never know it, at least with she and I married. I really need normalcy in my life, and I really need to be away from her.
The 3 C's ... you didn't cause it ..you can't control it..you can't cure it. Whether it's alcoholism or a relapse ..whatever.
We are not responsible for anything someone else says or does....we ARE responsible for what WE say, do, and how we react to others.
Sounds like you also need some therapy too to help you move on from here ..whether you 2 stay together or not. Either way, this disease has never been and will never be anything you could cause, control, or cure.
She said she was going to make it whether you were together or not. And she will if that is what she really wants. Whether you stay or go really has nothing to do with what she needs to do for herself . She has a life to live too. If she is hell bent on making her program work, she will.
You weren't powerful enough to make her stop drinking and you aren't powerful enough to make her start.
Take care of YOU Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
I am a daughter (25 yrs old) of an A mother. Your wife sounds very familiar. My father has talked and talked about leaving her and has never done it. I remember being 15 and telling my father to leave. Im not trying to tell you what to do just offer and opinion. I personally, wanted and want my father to leave my mother because i think that they are catalysts for eachother. Some people dont work. Some people are better friends. your childeren are grown think about you. I am, however, as a daugther glad i found an alanon site, please encourage them to do so as well. I dont think you should worry about her in her state and doing this, she has people to support her......be selfish.
I ran out of patience. I left. My A went to rehab for 3 weeks then went back out 2 weeks later and got drunk. Finally, it got to the point that I could not take anymore and I packed me and the kids and moved out. I have to say, it is a battle every day to try to remain friendly for the sake of the children but be detached as he tries so hard to mend what is, I fear, irretrievably broken as you put it. As I see it, you either have to let go of the resentment which is SOOOO hard and forgive but understand that recovery is a selfish time OR you have to move on.
Welcome to the board - very happy that you found us. What you describe is very common for many of us who have family that have tried sobriety. For me the key was attending Alanon and open AA meetings. I learned both about myself and the A and their recovery.
Some time ago I had a conversation with a close AA friend. After much discussion I realized that when the A puts down the drink for them that is 1/2 the battle and their starting point. For those of us affected by the disease - we really dont have a place to start. But we must start somewhere - and you have done just that - you reached out to get help because your life is unmanagable. I hope you stick around and can attend Alanon meetings to learn to help yourself and your children.
Another commonality for those recently sober is their excitment over their accomplishment - but they are so new that they havent really changed old behavior patterns. For some avoiding the ones they know they hurt is common - my husband did that for many months. The guilt and shame they feel they must work through in order to be able to give anything to the relationship. This worked however, for this is when I found the most out about myself and "my" behaviors. It was a struggle and often times I felt some resentments about having to shoulder the load. But I learned that was something I created for my husband was perfectly capable of doing much of what I was doing. We now are able to share duties that I never allowed him to do. We talk and laugh often. Can it all fall apart tomorrow - sure - there are no garuntees in sobriety or life. However, during the time I had to learn about myself I found that I will be disappointed should he slip - but it is not on me and I can live my life despite his sobriety or lack of.
Good luck to both of you. It is a hard road ahead for you both but the journey is worth it in the end.
Karen
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Nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care. Love you all!
Karen
Carolina girl, you're exactly right. We have decided we have to move on.
I spoke with both kids today and we all agree that we don't want her back after rehab. We're going to tell her that, together, during sunday's visitation. She still has two weeks to go in her rehab, and we feel that telling her this sunday, while she's surrounded by her counselors and peer support group, would be much better than letting her come home and dropping the bomb on her while she's alone.
It was very empowering for me that both kids agreed. We are going into this as a unit. The three of us, my kids and me, need to heal, and we all have to admit that we have an excellent chance of forming a brand new relatrionship. One minus my wife. We feel this is the only way.
I just hope she can handle it, and I would be greatful for any input from you all on this.
Welcome to the MIP family. Thanks for being a part of our recovery.
We have a saying in Al-Anon that is "Just for Today" - it means that the decisions I make are what works for me today. I have the freedom to change my mind, make other choices and do tomorrow what I couldn't do today.
I don't know if you & your wife are suppose to stay as a family or not - that is only a decision for you & her to make. But I do know that you do have the option to say - I need some time - I need some space. Several of us here have give our relationships space in early recovery - some it helped the recovery & relationship - some it didn't.
Keep taking care of you - focusing on getting help for yourself & the way that you have been affected by this disease.
Don't give up before the miracle happens in you - You deserve it.
Rita
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No matter what me and my God are going to be ok, even better than OK -
One of the most valuable things I learned in an Alanon meeting years ago was that if it was good for me, it was good for the A.
Sometimes, no matter how depressed and frustrated I was, I dragged myself to a meeting just because I knew that's what was good for me and my daughters. It was always the "next right" thing to do.
That really is all you have to do right now..... Take care of yourself and your kids. Go to work, go to ALANON, anything you do that is good for you and your kids will be okay.
Just a suggestion? Don't make any important decisions (for yourself) for the next 90 days and during that time get to as many f2f Al-Anon meetings as you can. You might take in an open AA meeting or two also. After 90 days review what you have just posted here and then ask for more experience, strength and hope.
One of my favorite slogans is "Don't React!!" and another is "When in doubt...Don't" (make a decision that is.)
Keep coming back. I relate to your story cause it was mine at one time also. You're not alone when you're in this family.
I spoke with her couselor today and he fully supports the decision my kids and I made. He suggests she might need some help finding a place to go, and he insists that I set a deadline for her to be gone, and to not budge from that.
I have the full support of my family, friends, and now the professionals working with her. I feel as if thousands of pounds of weight have been lifted from my shoulders, I know it's a cliche', but it's really true!
I noticed no one posted after you wrote how great you are feeling - I think it's wonderful. You know your situation better than anyone and what you need. I wish you many blessings and happiness.
WB- Your last post was kind of like a breath of fresh air. You seem to have reached a milestone, with yourself and your words definately show it. I understand the exhaustion you feel, the need to re-boot yourself, and the need to find yourself again. My "A" has never gone for help and still insists, he can beat it on his own. I say all the time, after all that his disease has taken from me, I am too exhausted to deal with his recovery, if that was the road he chose. I am helping myself now and have been. Sometimes I feel selfish, but then again, I have every right to. I worry about me and my children, and many family and friends have had to get used to the "new" me. I guess they are not used to me trying to only worry about myself and my children. There will be a day, that I too, will not be here. To be honest, I can't wait. But for now, I am here, with him. I have detached from him and I have found so many ways to make myself happy and I have found help for me. I need this help, so that when the day comes, and I leave, I will not come back. But..... Please remember, this is an emotional roller coaster. And it will be for a long time, to you and your children. You will have days that you feel great and you will have days that you doubt your actions, and that is when the shoulds and what ifs come to your mind. That is why, I am begging you and your children to seek your own help with professionals. you will need that, I promise you. You will not only need it to try to heal your broken hearts and wings from your wifes alcoholism, but you will need it to move on and live a healthy, normal life. I give you alot of credit, for reaching out to this group of awesome people. That was your step, to your own recovery. I would try to stay in this group, I know that you touched alot of us, and you will come into our minds, and stay in our hearts, and we will wonder how you and your children are. I would also suggest finding a therepists, for you and your children, as a whole unit. But I would also highly recommend finding individual therepists, too. You have so much to deal with, after this long marriage and her drinking. And your daughters, also, have alot to deal with the kind of mom they have, and what her drinking has done to them. This will only make things better, not worst, in the long run. Therepy has done wonders for me, I wish I wasn't so ashamed of his addiction, for so long, and afraid that if anyone knew, I would risk loosing my children. I wish I had gone to therepy, a long time ago. Please keep coming back to MIP. You are in my thoughts so often and I have put you and your family in my prayers. Good luck with your new life. Don't get discouraged, not everyday is perfect. Take baby steps, take it slow, YOU DESERVE IT!!!!! And always remember " Progress not perfection". None of us are perfect, we all slip , we are only human. I was happy to hear that you had made a decision, I was happy to hear the relief in your words. This is your time now, and your daughters, take advantage of it. Please take care of yourself and your daughters, and remember, you are not alone. Please feel free to send me a message, anytime, and let me know how you all are doing. I will be thinking of you, and I will say extra prayers for you all.
! for a lot of us, and i'll just speak for me, for me of us, this is a safe haven; i've been blessed to receive the love, care and support from this site and the rest of my Al-anon family, that my family of origin, cannot offer me -- i love my family, but they do not understand, or the logistics are just too much. also, we try not give advice (per se), but rather give you our ESH, experience, strength and hope.
