The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I posted this to one of our friends, and thought, perhaps, it could be help to more of us.
-take what you want, leave the rest-
trust a little, and have confidence to sit down with him, voices low and non-threatening, and discuss your feelings on the finances. i think it very wise to divvy the income into 3 or 4 categories (to qualify this, i was, at one time, a financial planner). here were some of my rules/suggestions:
1.1 meet your needs - (edited) be true to yourself and realize your basic needs. going without the basics (shelter, love, food/water, meds, etc) is physically and mentally depleting, as most of us know
1.2 pay yourself first - find the right amount, ie. 10%-25%, to put into savings, emergency funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, etc
2. pay the bills - pay the bills ontime. credit scores are terribly hard to build up and terribly easy to tear down. this will do two other things: maintain your standard of living and alleviate any stress about wondering how you'll get by next month***
3. rid yourself of debt - add up all the revolving debt (credit cards, personal loans, arrears, collections). make the goal of paying that off in increments, from highest percentage finance fees on down. consolidate if that is easier for you, but pay a substantial amount every 2 weeks. by substantial, i mean, specifically, use 25% of the paycheck, if possible, but do not compromise #1 and #2. revolving debt is a huge stressor. get rid of the anxiety, noone needs it.
4. set future goals - take into account where you want to be (with my #1). how much in the emergency fund would you like to see, $5k, $10k... if the car craps out can you go get it fixed right now? if hubby falls and breaks a tooth can you afford a dentist? etc. most people who are financially sound save 3-6 months income into the emergency fund, 5-15% into retirement, 10% for funstuff, and the rest into future purchases (car, house, college, baby)
I would bet my left leg that you could sit your sober A down and ask to discuss this--nonthreatening, matter of factly, "lets do for us" mood. the mood and setting is very important. low soothing voice, keep the situation calm, let him speak/voice his opinion about the plan. perhaps he can even take part and develop it further... people, in general, are motivated when they are actively involved.
hope this helps, and i'm here for anything else!!!
with love
cj
-- Edited by CJ at 00:23, 2006-12-12
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time to stop going to the hardware store to buy bread.
I know you said the take what ya want thing... wish life were that way to be able to follow this guide. It is a very good one. Not realistic for many sadly.
Because of where A got me, after I basically did what you said on a less money coming in scale, I now am really really struggling.
I have a fifteen hundred forty six dollar, house payment, I get seventeen hundred, my disability and rent, and two hundred from someone who owes me money.
so if I can pay my house, and my power and a bit of food and maybe my meds, I feel rich.
that is why I am doing my best to share my country home.
reality when an A disease sucks you dry.
I cannot sell becuz A ruined my credit and I cannot buy anything with a lessor payment. My sanctuary gets donations and sponsors so it is covered pretty much, a friend gave me a discount on hay, I get free bread sometimes for the others. I get some food donated from humane societies as they get food and have contracts to just feed science diet or something. But I struggle. Cat food is the hardest.
I can board something here and make a little, I can grow my own food, I can rent part out as it is mine.I don't know why I am not a stick as little as I eat.. lol good german stock....
If I did sell and just rent, I cannot live on what I have with no rent or other things.
Right now I don't even have any change in my change jar or dollars in my secret place to hide it here.
I only have the net as far as I know, one more month.
But I take a day at a time, trust my hp. This will be 11 months of this, then my payment goes back to twelve hundred a month. I can handle that ok.
how do I do it? one day at a time, only buy needs, don't be afraid to ask for help. I sure gave a lot at one time, felt good, now it is my turn to be able to ask for help, and allow others to give. Is NOT easy for me.
i know the place you are at, i've seen it first hand, second hand, and third hand... luckily, i'm in a position to do some of these steps --- this guide is here merely for structure. a lot of us in the 'codependent' stage are having a hard time with structured, common sense driven goals, which is quite understandable. we live in chaos, and our lives have become unmanagable. perhaps, some of us can use this and tailor it as we see fit to match the situation.
i do apologize, for i am wrong to not include a step that is always first and foremost:
take care of my needs
then move on to the others, if possible.
deb, you have strength in you that i am amazed to see. you ARE here for us and give to us your bounty of wisdom and guiding peace. if i can give back, i will. i will try. if any of you have a particular finance question, i will do my best to either give an answer or a direction to turn to. i can't rescue, but i can try to uplift and give of my knowledge with blessings from my HP.
ODAT
still here, still learning with you all
with love
cj
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time to stop going to the hardware store to buy bread.
You know, my income has never been lower than it is now. Yet, I am not struggling one single bit. For the first time ever, I am paying past debt slowly at a time. When I was married to my AH, there wasn't any money to give and of the collection people. There wasn't money for the light bill.
I have always been frugal with my money. On some occasions I will go spend my money not on the least expensive, but something of quality and find I save more in a long run that way. Not long ago, I sat and did a budget. Figured out how much I could let go to go to collection companies. I sent letters to the most pressing ones, "I will be sending X amount, when my income increases, payment will increase." So, far it is working great. I did get in increase on some. I am almost through with a couple of them and once I have paid those, I will go on to the next one.
This does help me though with my budgeting, even though it is my money now and there isn't anyone I need to consult on where the money goes. Boy! I hear the control just coming through on that one! lol I am certain if I were to get in a relationship again where our incomes would merge, I would take your advice....and work on it together. Maybe by then, I will have worked out the controlling behavior with the money. lol
i'm so proud of you, as you should be of you -- it took me a long while, when i just started out, to get collections caught up -- it took me becoming a financial planner to understand that i truly needed a plan for myself, something structured, focused and easy to maintain month by month. now, as my wife is trying to take everything i planned for over the last 15 years (we've been married 2), i can afford to get a good (quality) lawyer that assures me her demands will fall well short, and i will stay secure. funny though, how i haven't conserved 1 penny over the span of our marriage... unless you want to count all the aluminum cans and glass bottles that have been recycled. hehehe
Great job!!! I'm here for ya.
cj
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time to stop going to the hardware store to buy bread.
Thank you very much. I think a lot of it had to do with working the steps.
Good Luck with your situation. One day at a time.
I bet those cans have memories. I have had many bad things happen in my life and may good things happen. I don't regret it. It has made me stronger, WISER, and to the doors of this program. I have found a peace that I never knew exsisted. Changed me into a person "I" can love for the first time.
Many moons ago, I had a boyfriend chant to me all the time....."you can't respect anybody unless you respect yourself, Ziggy". Those words were like a broken record!!! He said it all the time. When I came to the program, I learned, "I can't love anybody, unless I love myself". I learn something new each day. I am worth it. So, are you.
I am amazed with how matter of fact you are about this. I am sure it is an inspiration to many in the same type of situation.
Ziggy
(Disclaimer: Not responsible for not making sense in any and all posts, past Ziggy's night-night time)
yep I agree needs not wants... but then the needs become wants.. haha which is cool too.
ya know ever since alanon I really don't worry about it. Really do the day thing. We have never gone with out the needs. I have gotten where I made the piggys macaroni, they love it when we are poor. lol
then a donation will come in the next day. I trust and have faith.
Kinda get mad I cannot afford Goodwill though, hahaha
But I have enough stuff. geez just so fun to snoop!! hugs,debilyn smiling
I'm still working on #1 which seems to be the story of my life and doesn't look like it's gonna change anytime soon. I am in a situation now where I am about to take a reposession on my credit and find myself thinking well i might as well just rack it all up and say screw it since my credit is going to be wrecked anyway. I know that I won't pay the repo and it will be looming on my credit for the next 7 years so why not just go all the way? Then I think the repo is not me it's him and I'll write them a letter to put in my credit file. I'll keep my side of the street clean. Hmmmm decisions decisions. If I'm gonna say screw it I better do it before it's too late and my credit is totally wrecked!
be careful. what would you say to your HP if you just went hog wild with your credit card, because it was going to be repossessed? you will make it through to tomorrow -- and then tomorrow after.
step 4: take a searching and fearless moral inventory of thy self
with love
cj
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time to stop going to the hardware store to buy bread.
This is a good thing as it reminds me of one of only TWO things my A husband does right. One is go to work everyday, the other is HATING to accumulate debt.
He absolutely hates credit cards with a passion and only uses them in absolute emergencies like his car that he needs for work needs an expensive repair. He has 358,000 miles on it so far and you would never know to look at it. He keeps it in perfect condition. Once it was paid off he was so proud, he would like to keep it forever, LOL. We got it soon after we married and we read up on negotiating tactics and the best car to get in "Consumer Reports" and got a really really good deal on it. I also read to deal only with the manager/owner as they have the authority to make good deals, we asked when he would be there and went out of our way to go there at that time. He was not really there to deal with customers, but I went over and smiled at him really nicely and chatted with him and finally got him to talk numbers, LOL. It worked, I negotiated nearly $2,000.00 off of a used car, LOL, yes this car was even used when we got it, 12 years ago.
When we needed a new stove (and we really NEEDED one, LOL, it kept shutting off the pilots and the house would fill with gas while we were sleeping!) and new fridge (this too was needed, it was really old and not cold anymore, milk would rot in a couple of days...) we both saved up for months and just made it work and then paid cash for new ones. I researched which ones to buy carefully, the best deal for the money, ones that would last a long time and that would work for our needs.
Being a teacher he has a good retirement plan, in Ohio the teacher retirement system is separate from SS so it is fiscally sound. He keeps reminding me of that when he thinks I am going to leave him, sigh. He also has life insurance to, not a lot though, but he feels this makes it OK for him to drink, sigh.
He is very spartan in his habits, he has not made a single impulse purchase in the 13 years we have been married. He could be a monk he is so spartan, LOL. He has clothes still from college, with paint stains on them from an art class, LOL. He only throws out clothes when they are ripped beyond repair. He has only five suits and dress shirts, for each day of the work week. One year we all needed winter coats at the same time, mine was ripped, his had ripped (after so many years of machine washing) and daugther had outgrown hers. He took us to wallmart for ours then went to goodwill for his. He said women are pickier, LOL, and men just want something warm. He still wears that goodwill coat...
OK, he is still an A, so even though he has all of the basics covered, he still bounces checks (drunken driving/drunken cash withdrawals and drunken check writing aren't very conducive to financial stability) and a lot of money goes each month to fees. He has no savings account, he simply spends all of his money on alcohol once the bills are paid. BUT, at least he pays the bills first...
I have a savings account for emergencies, but I will never let him know it .
We have always lived below our means, so that when things happened, like I lost my job, we were still OK.
I think this is one of the things that kept our marriage together despite his severe and chronic alcoholism, there was still something about him that I respected, something important that he did right.
Thanks for the reminders about taking care of all of these things, since I will likely end up on my own soon and will have to worry about all of these things for myself.
Some people look back on their lean years and are bitter, I look back on them and laugh, LOL. I remember washing his suits in the bathtub while we were both still in college and working part time. I reasoned that they should be able to withstand a rainstorm, so I decided that I could wash them as gently as a walk in a rainstorm. I filled the bathtub with water and woolite then gently draped his suit jacket into the water and gently PATTED it down in the water and let it soak for a few hours and gently rubbed the areas that needed the most washing. Then I picked it up sopping wet and let it drip dry (no wringing or twisting). It looked fine. Then it only needed to be pressed, which was only $2.00, which we could barely afford. Even I can't believe this worked, LOL, but it did. My dry clean only clothes did not fare as well. I would wash a skirt that was not supposed to be washed and each time I did the length would shrink. My daughter would help me stretch it back out while it was still wet, LOL, so I could still use it for work. I still remember that, us playing tug of war with my wet skirt before I hung it up to dry before work the next morning, LOL.
It all depends on your attitude. I have to admit that knowing I can live on far less and really make it work gives me a feeling of contentment and security. I can rival any depression era frugality, LOL, when I need to. But after so much hard work for so many years, putting myself through college, etc. I am slightly more comfortable now, LOL, lets just say I don't have to machine wash any more dry clean only clothes out of desperation, LOL, although I still am very frugal to avoid debt.
But still, I can pull this out when I need to.
Even though my husband is an A he is much more financially responsible than most people I know. Too bad he can't apply this brilliance to his drinking...sigh...
I wish he would let me help him with his checkbook, there would be no more bounced checks, but being an A, he is convinced the bounced checks are my fault somehow. I still don't know how, since I have nothing to do with the account, but he says it is my fault. But then again EVERYTHING is my "fault" sigh...so why should his checking account woes be any different...
I used to be so good with my finances. I never charged more than I could pay off that month. Paid everything on time. In college I worked during the summer to pay for my expenses during the year--I made it on $1000 for 9 months-(granted I was just paying for my "extras"--clothes, going out) I think that was good for a 18-21 yr. old.
Then men entered my life and my codependent ways--just shot through the roof. I didn't want to cause problems, I wanted to make them happy. Now I am in way over my head. No one to blame but my own self really for not just sticking up for myself!!!!
My A husband used to get pretty upset with me b/c I was insistant upon paying all the bills first then if we had any money left over he could get what he wanted (of course this was after I had put everything I could on my credit!!!!). Now he just smiles and shakes his head b/c I refuse to file for bankruptcy--but we some how manage to scrape by every month! (I would be done for if he went back out and I wasn't getting his checks to help though!!!!)
One great HP story if you please----- A couple of months ago, it was 1 week before payday and we had $40 for gas and groceries that week--we have 3 children one who is on a special diet where the bread alone costs over $5/loaf. Anyway--we were out of everything, but I though well if I buy flour and milk and eggs we can just eat a lot of pancakes and biscuits. Well someone owed me some money and right before I headed to the store she caught me and paid me what she owed me. Then as I was walking around in Wal-mart--still trying to make sure I made that money stretch I saw a friend who owed my husband money. I didn't say anything to him, but he remembered right there in the store and happened to have the money with him. I know people thought I was nuts--I was just beaming as I was walking up and down the aisle, crying at the same time b/c now I had enough for all that I needed plus gas for the week! I just went around mumbling--God is soooo good!!!!
Many MANY kudos for you on getting yourself a little emergency fund. The 'GOOD' thing about a lot of drunks, is that 1. they save a lot of money to fund their addictions and 2. when they are drunk, it is usually easy pickens to get some scratch off them -- that's just a little humor, possibly true in circumstances.
I think you should continue to be a little, fluffy squirrel and stock up for the winter. Hide as many nuts as possible, after all, they'd most likely be wasted on booze or the doc (drug of choice). Get to a place where you KNOW what EXACTLY it will cost to live away for at a certain period... 1 month.. 2? whatever you choose -- get a PLAN - structure it!!! rent will be this much, food, gas, electric, (internet access ;), what-have-you.
As for a teacher's retirement.. they have what's called a 403b (not unlike a 401k) retirement plan. You are very right, this plan has nothing to do with Soc Security. The 403b is the big envelope he adds money to... inside of the envelope, there are investment vehicles such as 1. a fixed rate of growth (like a CD or bank account) 2. mutual funds (they are a bunch, 100 to 120, different stocks pooled together by a money manager) 3. an annuity (which has mutual fund sub-accounts and likely, a death benefit well above and beyond how much he has paid in) or 4. a choice of various vehicles that I've listed along with stocks, bonds, money markets... whatever he wants to choose.
As a primary beneficiary, you should get to know what, exactly, he has in these and IRA accounts... ***especially if you are expecting to be the next -ex-mrs*** ...(a lawyer will need at least the account number) It behooves YOU to be vigilant... 'nuff said.
with love
cj
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time to stop going to the hardware store to buy bread.
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