The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I'm married to an A for many years and he is now sober for about 9 years. I went to Al Anon meetings for years before he sobered up and continue to go now and then but not as much as I used to. Although he has been sober for many years, he basically acts out the same way he did before he sobered up except he is not drunk. I know that in Al Anon and AA this is considered being a dry drunk but I am aware that certain types of personalities greatly affect the alcoholics temperment and actions and I wonder why more emphasis is not put on personality types when it comes to learning how to cope with a person who not only is an alcoholic but also has a personality problem? It seems that generally alcoholics are bunched into one category and all their problems are suppose to stem from being alcoholics. My husband and I went to therapy twice and from what I was told, my husband is passive aggressive and has narcissistic tendencies and from I learned, it is near impossible for those types of people to make drastic changes in their attitudes and actions. I assume that when AA and Al Anon came into being, personality understanding was limited and I wonder why over the years there has not been additions to the information about the challenge of living with difficult personalities of alcoholics? In posts and at meetings I've attended I do not hear about differentials on this matter but I do continue to hear that all problems stem from the addiction. I'm not trying to put the program down, just wondering about this. Thanks.
My guess is because most of the things we learn here can be applied to every personality type in some way. We discover US, we use the Alanon steps and tools. I use the tools with all personality types, family, friends etc.. I just need to figure out what action or tool is in my best interest.
If we picked apart personality types, we'd then move on to mental illnesses, bipolar, schizophrenia, manic depression etc. The core purpose of Alanon would be lost.
As we know, we can't change any personality type or mental illness problems either. So we're back to where we started using Alanon and what it can teach us.
Christy
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I believe that Al-Anon works on all personality types , we are all unique but this program and it's principle work in every relationship I have . This program improves all relationships drinking or not. when I am not judging others behavior and can use the Live and Let Live phlosophy my life is pretty simple
. Keeping boundaries for behavior in place drinking or not works . The only thing that keeps me sane is Minding my own business and if directly affects my life then I take a stand , I do not have to accept unexceptable behavior from anyone I simply get up and leave the room . I teach people how to treat me and it's up to me to change that. waiting for them to change is a huge waste of my time. I am still the only person I have any control over. *damn*
My husb can be as miserable as he chooses to be on any given day i don't have to let it ruin my day . keep the focus on yourself , take care of your own needs and you will be just fine and regardless of what he does your going to be okay. You still are not responsible for his behavior . Louise
Alot of alcoholics have underlying mental and/or emotional problems and the alcohol (or drugs) is a way of "self-medicating" the problem, a quick (but very temporary) fix. It is hard for any underlying emotional and mental problems to be diagnosed while the A is still active, although not impossible, but after they are sober a good doctor or therapist can find what is wrong and begin to treat the person. You also have to remember that just like getting sober the person has to be willing to be helped. This is why alanon is such a great program, we learn to deal with all types of people and situations in a healthy way. And since some people do not see they may have underlying problems they will not seek help for it, so then we can use what we have learned in alanon to deal with them.
I guess to me it does not make a lot of difference. We don't consider personality types in people with diabetes, ms, crohns... etc.
Aism has specific symptoms, as any other disease. From what i have learned is in order to even touch the bi polarism, mpd, ptsd, etc, first the aism has to be addressed.
Once my A was in recovery mode, on a very good program, he delt with the depression, insomnia, etc.
Aism does not discriminate.
If I am diabetic what difference does it make if I am bipolar, mpd etc.
All I know is my A has many mental illnesses, but until he or if he gets himself on a program of recovery, everything else is moot. love,debilyn
Hi everyone. Thanks for your replies. Christy, I do see your point that as Al Anon stands, it would not be affective to add to the original program with specific info on conditions outside of addiction. Guess I was blowing off steam. But I am grateful that I did research on my own and gathered all the information I could on my A's mental problems and his personality type which has greatly helped me, not to change him, but to better help myself apply the tools of Al Anon. I would want to know all I could if he or I had a physical disability or disease as well that is not related to addiction.
What I have heard over the years and still hear from some people in the program is that all anyone ever needs is the Al Anon program and it's tools, that outside information other than what is offered by the Al Anon program itself is not useful. The meetings are scared and devoted to the program itself but I have not read any Al Anon literature that suggests that it is not useful to gain other knowledge that would be helpful to ourselves in gaining understanding we could apply to the principles and tools of the program. I have found it very useful to know more of the specificis of my A's personality and his disorder. The program gave me many light bulb moments and when I added to those moments what I learned about his personality traits and mental disorder, I had ah-hah moments as well, which made it even clearer to me where I needed to work harder in the program for my own sake and recovery.
There was an old timer, died with 27 years sobriety at 80 who said this about alcholism: "You take a drunk horse thief. You bring him to AA and take him through the 12 steps. You still have your horse thief. He just speaks AA now"
There is no garentee any where in our literature (in AA or Al Anon) that garentees that if someone works the steps their personality will change. It simply says that we will be aware of our personality and what our short falls are. Now that your husband is sober, he is aware (hopefully) of what he really is, inside and out. Additionally, I'm not certain where the impression was given that meetings are the end all be all for treating mental health problems--the literature I've read emphasizes that Al Anon and AA are not professional organizations, and if professional help is needed, by all means, please persue it. Please do not suffer in silence. It is through al anon that we gain some prospective on our role and responsibilty in the dysfunction, but it is always emphasized that al anon does not work for everyone.
Tiger, it's often hard to get something off a person's mind and make it understandable in a post and guess what I was trying to share was unclear but even so, thanks for your program insight.
I too found it very helpful when I started learning more about alcoholism and the effects on the A as well as those around them. It has helped me to apply the tools I have gained in alanon in a more effective way. For me, understanding how something works (in this case alcoholism) helps me to deal with it in a more constructive way.
Not everyone with a personality disorder is an alcoholic.
Not everyone who is an alcoholic has a personality disorder.
I grew up with a brother & mother who are OCD & have Borderline Personality Disorder. My sister is bipolar and passive agressive.
A lot of the things I learned in the 12-Steps have helped me to deal with my family members who are mentally ill: especially the fact that I have no control over their actions, turning over things to my HP, etc.
I've also learned a lot about my family by purchasing specific books that help address growing up or being in relationships with these types of personality disorders. There are similar activities (to the 12 Steps) these books to cope with personality disorders.
In other words, working the 12 Steps can help, but learning about specifics of the mental illnesses needs to come from reading or seeing professional counselor.
I guess to me it does not make a lot of difference. We don't consider personality types in people with diabetes, ms, crohns... etc.
Aism has specific symptoms, as any other disease. From what i have learned is in order to even touch the bi polarism, mpd, ptsd, etc, first the aism has to be addressed.
Once my A was in recovery mode, on a very good program, he delt with the depression, insomnia, etc.
Aism does not discriminate.
If I am diabetic what difference does it make if I am bipolar, mpd etc.
All I know is my A has many mental illnesses, but until he or if he gets himself on a program of recovery, everything else is moot. love,debilyn
Because the bipolar, borderline personality disorder, etc. must be addressed. If you get help for the diabetes or alcholism or whatever, the personality disorder is still present and living with them can be disasterous. My husband is Borderline and it is absolutely hell. I believe that Alcholism is not a stand alone disease, but one that is a direct result of a personality disorder. Then the person needs to self medicate because of not being able to live with the demons inside them that are really PD's. If not, then when you eliminate the alcohol, why do you still have personality problems in alot of, if not almost all cases. I have done extensive reading on this and my eyes have been opened. The PD's need to be addressed as well as getting them off alcohol. Otherwise they are impossible to live with, at least mine is. Do all the families a favor and find out what the PD is and treat that just as importantly as getting them off the booze.
Alanon is NOT a cult, even though some people treat it as such and see it as such. It is NOT a closed environment where it is sacriledge to learn things from outside sources, and it need not be a "filter" for dispensing new information being found out by psychological researchers. You can learn that yourself and can go to the source yourself.
As some have pointed out very eloquently, there is nothing wrong with YOU gaining insight into your husband's specific problems, however expecting alanon or AA to do that is simply not reasonable, as has been explained.
My husband too suffers from narcissism, amongst other things, and yes, there is LITTLE hope for him. I have read several books on the subject. One good one is called something like "Emotional Vampires" about different types of narcissistic personalities. There is new and fascinating research into personality disorders out there and I urge you to take advantage of it and learn as much as you can. What I do is look up the subject on Amazon to see what books are out there, then do an interlibrary loan at my local library to get them to read if they do not have them. This is all free.
No matter where you are looking, looking to only one source for information is never a good idea. You need to look at as many reliable sources as you can. A published book is a good place to look, as most major publishing houses won't risk their reputation publishing silly nonsense. Going to individuals in alanon for information is hit and miss. Some know what they are talking about and are knowledgeable, and some are just passing on what they "hear" from others who may or may not know what they are talking about. While others actually suffer from mental illness themselves and have gone through enough therapy to think that they can treat others now that they are getting better.
Go to alanon to learn about how to help YOURSELF and there is nothing wrong with reading additional books yourself about your husband's condition to help you understand it better.
Neither AA nor alanon is an al emcompassing "fix" for what ails you. It alone can be ONE of the tools that you use to educate yourself so you can make your life better.
Alot of alcoholics have underlying mental and/or emotional problems and the alcohol (or drugs) is a way of "self-medicating" the problem, a quick (but very temporary) fix. It is hard for any underlying emotional and mental problems to be diagnosed while the A is still active, although not impossible, but after they are sober a good doctor or therapist can find what is wrong and begin to treat the person. You also have to remember that just like getting sober the person has to be willing to be helped. This is why alanon is such a great program, we learn to deal with all types of people and situations in a healthy way. And since some people do not see they may have underlying problems they will not seek help for it, so then we can use what we have learned in alanon to deal with them.
Andi
Wow--well said Andi. I just hope that the A takes AA a step farther and does treat the person and/or personality disorders and not just the alcoholism. I would like to add tho, that if the person is abusive, that the loved one seeks help through a shelter or support group for abused people.
I once asked my husband's psychiatrist that question. As a MD she told me that because that was what she was for. As a codependent herself with a recovering A, she prefers that Alanon and AA keep to their orginal purposes. There is a lot of literature and research on personalities and Aism. Why clog up the meetings with that? Alanon and AA have their own purpose. Most of the people IMHO just want to begin the healing process. They want to get sober. They want to learn how to cope with an active A by getting themselves better.
I do believe that there are some As who have a harder time recovering because of their personality types. My husband is brilliant. A type A personality. A researcher. A social scientist. The smarter they are, the harder they question what they are doing. They don't need to help to get sober and stay sober they can do it themselves. They over analyze everything. His physchiatrist told him that she's just like him and at some point "you just have to shut up and listen!" I really like her. She has done wonders for him. Because of his issues on top of his aism he does mental health counceling as well as group counceling every month in addition to his AA meetings.
The research is absolutely valid when it comes to personality traits and addiction. There are groups out there that focus on that. There is a local Non-alanon based support group in my area where the ideas flow freely and we talk about everything. It's for family and friends of addicts. That's where we bring those ideas up and talk about them. We talk about other books that are non CAL. I found it very helpful.
Love and blessings to you and your family.
Live strong,
Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
Well I am codependent, have post traumatic stress disorder, major depression and am a compulsive over eater. I certainly come to al anon for a lot but I don't expect to address all of them in one place. I know for me my issues with the A revolve around alcoholism. At the same time he has major major issues with rage and responsibility and more. He has major issues with his health too. I think he has always had them personally. When I met him he was dealing with a reckless driving charge. He didn't tell me about that of course. His way is to hide and deny. I also didn't ask. I didn't really want to see his family was incredibly dysfunctional.
I don't ask the therapist I see what the issues the A has. I'm there for me. She certainly acknowledges he is controlling and abusive. I know all those issues, the debt, the rage and the controlling would get better if he chose to be sober. The issue is he doesn't. He doesn't have any interest in being sober.
Some people who go to AA do go onto to look at their other issues. Some don't. Some people manage to live in denial their whole lives. My younger sister has. She has a husband who somehow deals with it. I'm not sure how as I am not that involved with them but I have no doubt they have significant issues with it all the time. My younger sister is the same as me she has an eating disorder (hers manifests as anorexia) post traumatic stress, significant depression and alcoholism. Many of us have many issues. We may not talk about them all the time.
I certainly couldn't go along with a mandate that I not comment on my other issues or the A's other issues. I go for outside help. I do not get enough of it. I need more. Nevertheless Al-anon meets some of my significant needs. I don't hold Al-anon to task for not being able to meet all of them. I try to fashion my recovery myself these days. Gone are the days when I rely on any one person, program or source to meet my needs. I'm sorry you've been exposed to thinking that there was a mandate.
I've been exposed to some people who want to control my recovery in the past. I had to let them go. I let them go gently these days without bitterness. It isn't their life its mine and my recovery is my responsibility and I'm through blaming therapists, doctors, programs for not being further along.
I don't ask the therapist I see what the issues the A has. I'm there for me. She certainly acknowledges he is controlling and abusive. I know all those issues, the debt, the rage and the controlling would get better if he chose to be sober. The issue is he doesn't. He doesn't have any interest in being sober.
Maresie.
If your therapist acknowledges he is controlling and abusive, than he has bigger problems that just what stopping drinking can solve. The thing I worry about is that if the A goes to a few meetings a week, they then may think they are doing what they need to do. Not so, an abuser needs to stop controlling and abusing. Period. No one needs to be anyone else's punching bag or catch all for his verbal abuse. Everyone deserves respect and dignity and safety.
She has done wonders for him. Because of his issues on top of his aism he does mental health counceling as well as group counceling every month in addition to his AA meetings.