Newbie - Al-Anon Family Group

shauna27 · Member

Newbie

debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome Shauna, Many A's talk like this when they are using. It is most likely the guilt talking.

We learn in alanon we cannot control anyone but our selves. We cannot stop them from killing themselves anyway if they are serious to do so.

I used to say to my A, that is your choice. When he used, I left the room, or left the house. Ignored the disease that was talking.

To me if they are using there is no reason to listen to them. It is not them talking.

When I stopped allowing the disease to draw me in, he stopped the bs talk and did not try to play games anymore. I was no fun. The disease does not like to be alone.

I hope you will cont. to come here. I learned so very much in the last six years here. There are also meetings in the Chat room.

What I do is detach from the A and love my husband. To me they are two totally different people sharing the same body.

Sadly as time goes on, and they use, they will get worse and worse. Just like any disease. Aism kills them. Even if they stop early, the damage may already be done.

I am in my early fifties and have seen that when we hit our fifties, it is when our bodies show the damage we have or have not done to them. So many of my friends and loved ones have died in the last three years.

Keep coming back, we need you too. love,debilyn

shauna27 · Member

Thanks Debilyn. The problem is he drinks all the time-usually a fifth a day. What am I supposed to do? Not talk to him at all? The truth is I enjoy talking to him whether he's drinking or not. I just tend to not take some things too seriously. I've never given him ultimatums or anything. When he's gone to rehab, it's been his choice. I just helped him get there. I figure that the drinking is his problem and he needs to deal with it. He's finally reached a point where he is actually saying he "wants" to stop instead of "has" to stop. But he thinks he may not be able to stop. I just encourage him and tell him he can. And that he needs to do the work, not just go to meetings. And he refuses to go to meetings if he's been drinking because he thinks it is disrespectful. Every time he's sober for a bit and he picks up the bottle again he's so disgusted with himself after. I just tell him to look at it as practice runs. So it sounds like I should just not participate when he gets all doom and gloom? Definitely shouldn't be talking him through it I guess.

I plan on sticking around and checking out the chat meetings.

Noni · Senior Member

The As in my life not only threatened suicide, they attempted suicide. The As in my life that attemped suicide (and failed) were my brother, mother & daughter. Each of them asked that I/we (other family members) not contact the suicide hotline. BUT GUESS WHAT - when they attemped, they ended up in the psych ward, and they had trained professionals talking with them and treating them.

To answer your question - IMHO, if someone is talking about suicide, they're thinking about suicide. They may say that they're not thinking about it when they're sober, but in truth, they want you to think that they're not.

Sometimes talking about suicide is a plea for help. It's best to call the suicide hotline and ask them what you should do.

Sometimes talking about suicide is a form of emotional bondage the A places on their partner or family member. It sounds something like, "If you leave me, I'll kill myself. I just can't live without you." Again - a call to the suicide prevention hotline will help you know what to do.

That's my $0.02.

Karilynn · ~*Service Worker*~

((((((Shauna)))))))))),

Welcome to the MIP family! Here you will find great experience, strength, hope, wisdom and a bit of humor (good for the ).

You sound like me 3 years ago. I have known my AH forever, and we've been married 3 years! I too have done everything to educate myself about this disease. But I found it wasn't enough. My AH is also a chronic relapser. He use to go to AA meetings and then pick up a bottle afterwards, or go to AA meetings after he's been drinking. This by the way is not unusual for AA and it really doesn't matter. The point is that they are there, and hopefully something will stick. Remember this is a disease that progresses unless they get sober and stay sober. One thing that has helped now that AH is sober is to attend AA meetings with him. It has given me a perspective on his disease that I couldn't get from reading about it. I have always felt welcomed. Now if I don't show up at one group with hubby I am asked about! Go figure!

The suicide issue is something I will defer to other people who have more experience with it.

As for you going to Alanon meetings alone, I understand that feeling. Can you bring a friend perhaps? If not, please join us for our on-line meetings or join us for chat the other times. It was the first place that I actually had the courage to speak. It made me more comfortable to go to my local f2f meetings here. We'd love to have you!

I say this to all newbies to the board as a reminder to myself: you must not loose yourself in their disease. Your recovery has to be about you and for you, regardless if he chooses recovery or not. Recovery is about taking back your life. Take no prisoners. Recovery is a selfish thing. So go ahead and be selfish. We deserve it! As you get stronger in your recovery you will be able to make the decisions you need that are in the best interest of you.

Love and blessings to you and your family.

Live strong,

Karilynn & Pipers Kitty <--- the cat!

shauna27 · Member

Thanks so much for your input. I will definitely check out the chat meetings.

We just got back together after being split for about 8 months. He ended up getting back with an ex of his and living with her. We were together for just about 3 years before that and I walked with him through just about everything. And yeah, I'm not comfortable with the other woman issue either but that's another story.

He is 4 hours away from me. They split about a month ago after a horror show he caused. He got sober again for about a month and got his own place and a job. Once he got his place, he started drinking again.

He doesn't put blame on anyone else for his actions for the most part-unless you're calling him out on something-then it's your fault because you believed him or drew the wrong conclusion. Usually he blames the alcohol or his own weakness. Which is starting to get old.

He's told me much of what has happened because of his drinking-some of it pretty awful. I know what happened with his ex but he doesn't know I know about it. The thing that bothers me is that he has never ever treated me in such a way. Three years of living together and going through all life has to throw at you and he's never even come close to showing me that sort of behavior. It hasn't always been a picnic, but nothing like I've heard he's like. Mostly it's the not being able to count on him 100%, and him saying things didn't happen, or he yells a lot when he doesn't get his way. Mostly he just threatens to leave a lot. He doesn't use the suicide thing to make me stay. He just randomly does that regardless of what is going on. If he did treat me that way I'd send him on his way. Maybe he knows this. I don't know.

While we were apart I missed him incredibly. He called a lot and I just didn't pick up. Right now, we're taking it slow-no commitment but not seeing other people either. Everyone thinks that is wrong-we should just jump right back into it again. If he doesn't want to do that it means he is hoping to get her back. When we first got back together he insisted he wanted that. I was just kind of stunned. Part of me wants that, but part of me doesn't think it's a good idea right now. Everyone else thinks if we're not doing that I can't trust him. The fact is I can't completely trust him because he's an A.

I'm sticking around. I think I've got a lot to learn. I've been trying to figure me out more than him at this point.

lin0606 · ~*Service Worker*~

My husband is another who always talked about suicide when drunk, and you're right, it does get old.

I would say that the best thing to do is to focus on YOU here, rather than on him - that is, instead of worrying about what the effect on him will be if you do this that or the other thing, think about what the effect on YOU is, of your actions.

If listening to him ramble on about this is making you crazy and you want to stop, tell him that, and then stop - "I'm not going to listen to this - if you are serious, get some help, and if you're not, stop playing games with me". If you really do worry that he might do it, then call the hotline - people who talk about suicide and then blame others for taking them at their word need to learn that this is not a way to get attention. If he knows that his ramblings will prompt a call, and psychiatric evaluation, he won't do it anymore just for the attention. He might be mad, but so what? You will have either maybe saved his life, or stopped him from being manipulative and a royal pain - these are both good things.

We learn in alanon to stop taking the consequences of the A's behaviour, and instead leave them to take them themselves. They don't, on the whole, like this very much.

The first time I told my husband that it was not my job to make him happy, he was beside himself with rage, hurt, betrayal.... Until he went to his AA chat to bitch about me and they told him I was right. He sulked for a while, and then started learning to be an adult. It breaks my heart sometimes to see how hard this is for him - he's 55 years old, and has no resources. Our teenagers are better at dealing with disappointment, anger, all the s*** that life throws at you. He has learned nothing of how to be a grownup, in all those years, because he dealt with every setback by getting drunk or high. And for 20 years, I helped him, let him stay a child inside, because I thought that this was how to show love. Now, it's hard work, but with the help of his program, he's learning, and I am learning too - to stay out of the way of his growth, and stop allowing him to be a little boy in a man's body.

marmare · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome!

You will find lots of experience here. When I came here I was basically alone and my A did things similar to your post. One time he even told me he thought about killing himself so he wouldn't have to come home! I was so devastated. I kept working my program and learned about boundaries. I am so much more healthy than I was 2 years ago! Be gentle with yourself, take care of yourself, read about the disease, go to meetings, and post often!

Hugs Mary

shauna27 · Member

Thanks so much. I really needed to hear that.

He actually called a few hours ago, starting it again. Said he'd already done it and was calling to say goodbye. Said I needed closure, he was a monster and he was done. I told him I didn't believe him and never have. He said he'd already done it. I told him I was going to call 911 and of course he said he was ok and had a bandaid handy.

He is in a really dangerous place right now. I'm not worried about him killing himself, but I'm worried he's going to do something stupid. He just got out of a mess with the old gf. He got his act together enough to get a job and a place to live. Now he's ruined his last attempt at making up his classes that he worked so hard to get back into. He's barely working. He doesn't have the rent money. He can't afford to have the electric switched to his name. His car payment is late. He can't afford cable and broke his dvd player. He's drunk and sitting there with nothing to do but drink. And he is in the one place that triggers his drinking.

He said we're done. Maybe he means it, maybe he doesn't. Either way, he won't remember it clearly if at all in the morning. I'm going to make a few calls and see if I can get someone to help him help himself. And I'm going to see the other woman-not to start anything, but to talk. Because I think we need to.

I don't need this crap. I guarantee he won't ever talk to me again, and maybe that's why I'm doing it. I don't really care. He knows how I feel about him. He needs help and he won't get it unless it is right in his face. That is how he is. He doesn't do anything unless he has no other option. He never does anything he wants to do except drink. Now I'm going to do what I want to do. Try to forget about him and work on me. Because I don't ever want to go through this again.

You'll probably be seeing a lot of me here.

shauna27 · Member

Alright...I've done a lot of thinking. And blew off some steam. I'm thinking I should tell him I won't talk to him or see him when he's drinking. I think I have become somewhat of a safety net for when he drinks. He has plenty of people to turn to if he's not drinking and he chooses not to...unless he has to. When we first started out he hid his drinking from me. That caused problems as I didn't know what was going on. He then agreed that there would be no more hiding. And there wasn't. Then he went to rehab on his own. When he started up again he was worse than ever. I never told him he couldn't drink around me or in my home. I made him leave my home because we both had too much to deal with and it just wasn't working for me. The only places he had to go were places he couldn't drink. So he went to someone who would let him. When she told him he couldn't any longer, he hid it. He lost control and she told him she couldn't be with him if he drank. He left, got sober long enough to get a place to live, called me and started drinking again. And is on the verge of losing everything once again. I am not going to be his safe place to drink.

maresie2 · ~*Service Worker*~

I live with an A who is a chronic depressive, drug user, compulsive risk taker.

I also took on all his pain as my own. I then had my own pain as well as his pain.

I did not have boundaries around it. I thought love meant taking it all on and helping him.

I think it is very very very painful to love someone who is so down there. At the same time there are men and women who do come back from alcoholism. There are people who do recover.

I understand that you enjoy talking to the A and want to know about his life.

Maybe throwing yourself into the program might help. I know I find enormous solace in the chat room and in posting. I also find solace in really workiing on taking care of me.

Sometimes we need to take it one day at a time.

You know part of the cement with the A for me is in trying to get him to see he is acting self destructively. When he crashed my truck and dented it all up I cried for a month. He did not see my tears or my upset, he still doesn't. He is still on his oh it was an accident stuff, no big deal. He promised to fix it that never happened.

So I get stuck in saying there is a problem. He doesn't want to admit there is a problem, Stuck like cement. The issue for me is to say there is a problem and I need to take my own action on it. I cannot control the A but I can control me and I will not be drawn into his problems anymore. He has proven over and over and over again that he will not take care of his self destructive tendencies. He's crashed umpteen cars. I doubt he will have a license next year the way he is going.

I've spent a lot of time begging, pleading cajoling raging at him. None of that works. I am sure you have too. It is heart breaking stuff to stop trying but in the stopping we put the respnsibility back on them. I know my stuff is still entangled with the A's for the time being. I work hard to unentangle it. I can't say that is easy stuff. I have been tremendously committed to the relationship. I have been committed to the lie because really he has never been anything but a liar. So I have been committed to a lie. I can let go of the lie and know the truth. The truth is the A's problems are his. I have my own problems. They are significant.

Some of my problems are from this relationship, some of them aren't. I deserve to have a life that is happy and joyous and uncomplicated. I do not desrve to be dumped on, given other people's problems and lied to. I know that. Detachment means loving me it is does not mean I don't have compassion for him in his disease and whatever else he has going on. Detachment means I take care of me rather than allow him to destroy me too.

Maresie.

shauna27 · Member

I've actually never yelled, screamed, cried or pleaded with him about anything. I've always just let him do his own thing and not judged. He knows I want him to stop drinking. For him, no one else. I've never given him any boundaries whatsoever. Big mistake. The only thing I've ever wanted or expected from him is honesty. We always get along great whether he's drinking or not. I've always accepted him just the way he is-drinking or not.

He readily admits his problem. I just think I've made it too easy for him not to deal with his problem. He tells me how destructive he is. He warns me about it regularly. He told me today that he is nothing but a monster and I need to run. He kills everything he touches. He's ruined a lot of things. But he's brought a lot of happiness too.

nycbt · ~*Service Worker*~

Chat room is open 24/7 there here the link to www.mipchat.net or http://www.12stepforums.net/chatroom2.html

Here are some things that have helped me since in the program.

Go face to face meeting & online meeting.

post on the board here on the site. I have gotten a lot of good feed back.

· In this program u learn that u have choices. In Alanon we don’t give advice but only suggestions.

· Set support system. people do not judge. You need someone who can go for coffee on a bad day, or pick up a phone and call when in trouble. The support is what is important when you first this program.

Have a sponsor. Someone work one on one with you.

You don’t have to do this the minute u come to the program but I suggest that u do it when u can. It help.

Meeting schedule: meetings are in here and run approximately 90 minutes from: Monday-Friday, 9 am and 9 pm EST, Saturday: 10 am and 9 pm EST, Sunday: 10 am and 7 pm EST. Topics are selected by participants at meeting time. UK +5 hours, central -1 hour, mountain -2 hours, pacific -3 hours. Open chat all other times.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.