The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
that sobriety is never forever. This lifelong addiction can be kept at bay for years and years; my own A was sober for 25 years. Sooner or later it will reappear to the devastation of all concerned with the A. My partner is sober today, but he has had several relapses in the past four years. AFTER 25 YEARS SOBER!! It is truly a one-day-at-a-time situation for every one of them.
I love the stories of recovery that I read on this board, and I love that the dear ones of the A are hopeful that recovery is for all time. All is lost without hope. but, please, please cherish each day, and don't lose sight of the fact that it likely will happen again.
I am not feeling negative this morning. I simply know what I know. The odds are not in our favor. I tried convincing myself early on that it would never happen again. Hellooooo....Denial 101.
Best of love and good wishes to all, Diva
-- Edited by Diva at 10:34, 2006-10-29
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
Everyday I am reminded of Step 1. There isn't a day that goes by that some where in the back of my mind is the possiblity of relapse. Having said that, I do cherish the moments we have. This time around life is sweeter and our moments (although to some a bit dull at times and unextraordinary) are extraordinary. Thanks for the reminder.
Love and blessings to you, hubby and all the critters.
Live strong dear friend,
Karilynn, Hubby, and Pipers Kitty
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
Are you enjoying these beautiful sunny days we are having?
I so agree with what Greta said!
If they are sober 50 years, like some have been, or 50 minutes.....we shouldnt be banking on anyone else's actions.
Hopefully, if we are working at getting our own place in the world figured out, a slip by an A in our lives will no longer have the power to devastate us.
I think statistics show you are right. Even in rehab alcoholics are told that only 1 in 10 of them will remain sober. I was in denial forever about my dad who never even acknowledged he was an alcoholic, and then died of lung cancer first anyway. Equally my mom never saw my dad as an alcoholic.
I hope the program works regardless. It enables us to face the truth and keep living and even some say they have thrived. I bet there has never been anyone who didn't come to the program thinking it might have info on how to get the alcoholic to stop drinking.
Some alcoholics will stop drinking. Most won't at least not permanently.
So the decision is if we think the alanon program has something to offer us regardless of what the alcoholic does.
I personally get a lot out of the intelligent, thoughtful and empathetic postings of people like you on the message board and at the meetings.
I know about two people who are truly recovered alcholics. I was actually shocked to discover they ever had a problem with alcohol. They are elderly now, so I doubt they fall off of the wagon too badly, LOL.
Anyway...ironically neither has had anything to do with AA. I don't think this is an accident. In my researching AA I have found that many people think that AA CAUSES relapses in the LONG RUN. In the short term, AA does help a lot of people, but for some people, going back and hearing shares of relapses, shares of drinking, shares and shares and shares of the the pull that alcohol has, well...it starts to get to them.
I believe this too. I used to go to OA meetings with a friend and I can tell you that it was TOUGH to hear over and over about people giving in and their shares about binging. Hearing about all of the weakness and binging on junk foods, a whole hour about binging and eating...well...it didn't help matters. They would then go out to eat after the meeting and binge again...then talk about that binge at the next meeting in a share. SIGH! My friend gained weight and I told her that I was beginning to overeat as well so I was not going back.
The two people that I know who got sober without AA replaced that compulsion with another, a healthy one. Both are VERY religious as in involved with religious activities on a DAILY basis that are all encompassing.
The research I have done has shown that many many people turn to other addictions to solve the initial addiction. That is why many many people in AA are some serious smokers, including Bill W. who was a severe chain smoker. That is also why "13th steppin" is notorious in AA (although not formally condoned), some of them exchange the drinking addiction for a sexual addiction. AA is a very unhealthy environment for SOME people, it is rife with sick people who see nothing wrong with exchanging one unhealthy addiction for another. AA as far as I know does NOT discourage sexually acting out, affairs, etc. as long as they are NOT done to other newbies. They don't discourage smoking either, or overeating, any other addiction is OK as long as it is not to drinking.
From what I have seen, the only people successful are those who exchange their unhealthy addictions for healthy ones, AND surround themselves with people who don't drink or talk about drinking. That means no AA.
This is just what I have seen for myself. I know very few alcholics altogether and only those two who I know and recently confided in me they used to be alcholics. I really had troulbe beleiving one of them, he said he was such an alcholic that he had to drink first thing in the morning and his hands shook so bad that he could not tie his tie in the morning. He tried to quit cold turkey and nearly died and had to dry out in the hospital. That was 40 years ago and he has not taken a drink since. He is around 70 now and very ill so I doubt he takes up drinking again. He has cut out all of his fomer drinking buddies and family out of his life and only associates with people in his religious group who don't drink. This is what has worked for him. I know he is not lying because I am friends with his daughter and she says she does not remember him ever drinking.
Just my experience and what I have observed. I am sure there are others who can talk of AA long term success stories of healthy and long term unbroken sobriety until a natural death, I just have never heard, or known of, or read of any.
I can certainly understand why people relapse. It's no different than any change, we get bored or lazy with it. It's no different than dieting? At first the diet is ok, we get results and feel motivated. But then we get tired of no deserts or lazy in our workouts. Sick of going to weightwatcher meetings. Maintaining is tough.
I have only known ONE person in my life that did not relapse, and he got sober with only a month of AA. He says he lives the steps of the program, but does not dwell on it.
My AA grandsponsor is 89 years old. He's been sober for 59 years. Ask him how he did it? ODAAT.
Gentleman featured in the grapevine just died with 62 years of sobriety. How he did it? ODAAT.
My AA sponsor has 35 years sobriety. How she did it? ODAAT.
Letter in the grapevine: Gentleman with 40+ years sobriety shows up in a treatment center. Why was he there? He quit going to meetings. Quit calling his sponsor. Quit working with sponsees. Quit reading the literature. Took a drink. Was found passed out in his closet by his grandson.
This disease is cunning, baffling, powerful, patient, progressive. It never goes away.
Anyway...ironically neither has had anything to do with AA. I don't think this is an accident. In my researching AA I have found that many people think that AA CAUSES relapses in the LONG RUN. In the short term, AA does help a lot of people, but for some people, going back and hearing shares of relapses, shares of drinking, shares and shares and shares of the the pull that alcohol has, well...it starts to get to them.
When someone who has long term sobriety relapses, the very first thing they say when they come back is "I quit going to meetings".
For me, if I don't hear these stories on a regular basis, I will forget what I am and I will convince myself I am not an alcoholic. If I could not go to meetings, I don't know what I'd do. The treatment for my disease means turning it over to a higher power... but never forgetting what I am. I am quite comfortable knowing the disease is just over my shoulder. Meetings enable me to take my temperature so to speak, recalibrate. If I lose sight of my disease, it's not because it's gone, it's because it's hiding in the bushes up ahead, just waiting for that moment when I have completely forgotten about it.
The research I have done has shown that many many people turn to other addictions to solve the initial addiction. That is why many many people in AA are some serious smokers, including Bill W. who was a severe chain smoker. That is also why "13th steppin" is notorious in AA (although not formally condoned), some of them exchange the drinking addiction for a sexual addiction. AA is a very unhealthy environment for SOME people, it is rife with sick people who see nothing wrong with exchanging one unhealthy addiction for another. AA as far as I know does NOT discourage sexually acting out, affairs, etc. as long as they are NOT done to other newbies. They don't discourage smoking either, or overeating, any other addiction is OK as long as it is not to drinking.
From what I have seen, the only people successful are those who exchange their unhealthy addictions for healthy ones, Isabela
I couldn't agree more. My husband's family has alot of alcholism in it and seems they have traded their liquor addiction for sex addiction. My father in law is the worse. He's 70 years old and acts like a pervert with his womanizing talk and filthy jokes. I am so sick of his dehumanizing ways concerning women that I could puke. And--he has been in AA for 30 years. I also know of another member who is pressuring his wife into having a 3 way with another woman. She is devastated. Another one of my husband's "friends" in AA has said to me"Let's go upstairs and F---. And my husband didn't say"Knock it off, she's my wife and you will not talk to her like that". These 2 jerks have been in the program for 20 plus years. To tell you the truth, I would just as soon they drink. Their sex addiction hurts people, hurts women. I think this kind of behavior is making a mockery of the program. No program should tolerate this kind of behavior, and it's not ok as long as you don't drink. Some things are just as important, like respect for women. I know there are also alot of healthy people out there also, Thank God. I think sex addicts should be booted out before they corrupt good people. Just my 2 cents.
