"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

JamesUK · Member

Is AA worth really worth all the hassle?..it has destroyed my family as i knew it.

lin0606 · ~*Service Worker*~

Alcholism is a fatal disease. It is more important for an A to sober up than it is to preserve his/her marriage.

I know that when my husband first sobered up, I was a bit lost. We had worked out some accomodations years earlier, so that the really bad times had seemed to be gone. I knew how to be married to the addict he was - this new guy was not what I was used to. I went to alanon more in my role as "good wife who does all she can - isn't she a saint to put up with that man" rather than because I really thought there was anything wrong with me.

Three and a half years later, I am starting to get some idea of how sick we both were. I urge you to give our program a good honest try, for a few months. No matter what happens with your marriage, those years of living with her disease have left you with some bad habits, if nothing else. If you find after six months that we have nothing to give you, you will only have wasted a bit of time.

AA and her program are none of your business - your job is YOUR recovery.

Dolphin123 · ~*Service Worker*~

(((((((((((James)))))))))))))),

Sending big hugs your way.

Lois W. is the one of the co-founders of alanon. She realized that she needed help when her husband, Bill, was going off to help another "drunk" and was leaving her alone. She through her shoe at him in anger. That is when she realised that she to needed to find recovery for her.

Your wife needs to put your recovery first, she has to, to safe her life. It hurts, but that is what is needed. For me I have to try to put my recovery first, with three young children I can't afford to be as self focused as he needs to be. My "A" is currently active, but when he is sober/clean, we have worked out a meeting schedule. Because both of us are trying to get healthy.

Your wife being new to recovery, may not resemble the woman that you knew. Right now, she probably doesn't know who she is. My "A" the very first time he ever started working the steps and truly working the program, he went through an identity crisis. He tried to be other people to he found him.

When he first when through recovery we seperated for a year (well one week shy to be exact) and that was a very painful time for me. But he focused on him, and I focused on me and I don't regret that time that I had to find me.

I am in no way suggesting that you do the same, but I know my "A" could not handle the responsibility of a marriage and trying to work on him, and also I was too sick to support his recovery in anyway. So it worked for us.

I hope you keep coming back.

Yours in recovery,

Dolphin123

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

Is AA worth it? Absolutely.

In my humble opinion and experience, alcoholics have two choices, and only two....

They either get sober, or they die. AA is far and away the most proven method for sustainable sobriety.

I know you're hurting, but perhaps your wife is finally becoming the (sober) person she always was - very hard to say.... Her life was, and is, worth saving, however. AA has saved millions of people's lives.

Tom

debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

James, AA has open meetings you can attend. If you choose to, go and educate yourself.

Have you asked her about you both attending AA meetings together sometimes?

A's are people with a horrible disease, would they be "worth" it if it were brain cancer making them behave like they do?

I can tell you ache for her. I am so sad for you. Now this does not mean it is forever.

Going to meetings together would possible make you guys closer.

I also want to say to you, if she drank when you met her, you never met "her." Maybe this is who she is. That woman in between was not her either.

She is going thru a learning process, it helps couples so much if you both go on a program at the same time.

I have to say I see you wanting to blame AA, call it a cult. Well look up cult in the dictionery. Wish I had one handy right now. What I remember is, it is a group of people who believe in the same thing.

Anyway AA is not much different than alanon. 12 steps, learning to take care of themselves, learning to love themselves and more. As she builds her path to recovery, hopefully she will come to more ahas and bring you in more.

right now she is learning to love herself. Something A's do not do when they use. She needs this time.

What we do is we take care of ourselves. We focus on us getting well.

Keep us updated. I know it hurts, but in the long run it could be better. Most all things we are working on, are exciting and new at first. Be glad she is getting healthier.

Maybe ask her for a date. A picnic, have it all planned, food, blanket whatever you need. Show her what she is missing! Part of it is she is looking for stimulation she does not get from using anymore.

I cannot imagine her not liking her husband asking her for a date and arranging "everything" down to a pillow for her head. Just talk about simple stuff,nothing heavy. Stay in the moment. Tell her what you see.

Woo her. When you love a woman tell her that she's really wanted,when you love a woman tell her that she'ssss the onnnne.

hugs,debilyn a real romantic....

Powerless · Senior Member

I understand your hurt, anger, confusion and despair. Tom is right, addicts face two choices...recover or die. The thing with addiction is that we don't know who we really are. Who we were meant to be got lost along the way, sometimes before we picked up the first drug or drink. I believe that it takes a couple of years in recovery to really know who we are and who we are meant to be.

Right now, she is doing what she needs to do to live. By working your own program you will be less jealous of her new friends. I have had these feelings when my husband first entered recovery, but I realized that these people were saving his life and I became thankful. I began to work a 12 step program and found that self-seeking behavior is part of the program. I can't change what I don't acknowledge. Just try to hang in there with her, gently tell her how you feel without judging and work your program.

Diva · ~*Service Worker*~

Either recover or die is not an overstatement. Given that, AA is not for everyone. The program has performed miracles for thousands and thousands; no doubt about that. But it is not perfect. I am sorry it has not worked for your A wife and you, and that you feel AA has ruined your life. Somewhere in my soul I feel this scenario would have played out with or without AA. Please come back and visit here often. We listen and care.

Diva

JamesUK · Member

I have taken onboard all your thoughts.....

I simply cant ask her out on a date.....she doesn't want a date with me, and since she started her recovery has never shown any interest in me other than washing my clothes and cooking my meals while i doggedly "stuck with it" for the last year.

She told me a over a year ago (two months after her getting into treatment) that our marriage was over....I was advised at f2f alanon meetings to stick it out, which i did.....her meetings carried on as usual....i tried to let her get on with it......then a male 13 stepper threw a spanner in the works.....i still tried to stick with it........but it's been nothing but problems all the way.

There has been no closeness between us (her choice) since she went into recovery......her sponsor even backed her up when the 13 stepper tried to mess things up (this incidentally-happened two days after she first told me our marriage was over., not only that..this 13 stepper was apparently her sponsors best friend.....plus- her sponsor also started turning up at my alanon meetings)............so things aren't quite as simple black and white as they first seem.

Despite me still trying to stick with it, 3 days ago she still insisted that our marriage is over.

Over the last 14 months i have tried to let her get on with her recovery but have had nothing but hurdles and rejection all the way....she has also told me within the last couple of days that she's been to a solicitor and is going for a "legal seperation".......so now it seems she will finally get what she wants-or thinks she wants (and that is a matter for herself to face at a future date if she's got this all wrong)

-- Edited by JamesUK at 21:13, 2006-07-25

-- Edited by JamesUK at 21:18, 2006-07-25

Tiger2006 · ~*Service Worker*~

What I really hear, James, is "My life has changed since my wife got sober! And I don't know what to do!" And James, what you are feeling is perfectly okay. There is no "wrong" way to feel about someone you love getting sober. *This is the good news*

*This is the bad news* In sobriety, alcholics tend to feel a need to make up for lost time. They feel a need to over compensate, and (as alcholism is inherently a disease of extremes) they do extreme actions--some have had affairs; some have quit their jobs, sold their houses, sold their cars, et cetera, in the vein of "All of these worldly possesions diverted me from Nirvana...."; some have actually listened to exactly what their sponsors have said, taking no major action for their first 12-24 months of sobriety (assuming they stay clean for the whole of those months, of course).

*This is also bad news* It also sounds as if your beloved is not *quite* listening to her sponsor. Rather, it sounds as if she is taking what she likes out of what her sponsor is saying, and using it for her own purposes, thus making it okay to carry out what she wanted to do anyway. In other words, "My sponsor said this was okay to do. So I'm gonna do it, because my sponsor's a good recovering individual, and I like what she says." This is not what alcholics who are actually persuing recovery solutions do. They listen to exactly what their sponsors say, good and bad, and trust that their sponsors have their best interest at heart at any given time.

*This is where the good news comes back * Whatever decisions your beloved makes, however painful, she will have to account for, be it to a magistrate, to the AA community, or to the God of her understanding. In the meantime, you have Al Anon. You can get a sponsor, start working the steps, and trust that, no matter what, we're gonna be in your corner. Cheering you on, behind you 100%.

I hope you come back, James. Keep an open mind. Live and let live.

serendipity · ~*Service Worker*~

my husband has been in and out of the program since he was 12. he is 32. he had 6 good years of sobriety with aa before he lost it. the way he talked gave me the idea that if you're in aa then you are well. i have since found this to be untrue. he picked sponcers that had long term sobriety but were still very sick people. one encouraged him to leave me because he thought no one could really be sober with a wife(as was his experience) one told him it was perfectly fine to not see or contact his kids for a month while having an extra-marital affair. my ah seeks out people who will tell him what he does or doesn't do are totally right. and there are those people in aa. i had the whole program up on a pedastal after all it was saving my husband. but that crashed down and taught me a great lesson in the process. now just because someone is in the program doesn't mean to me that they are healthy. i have to remember that we all are human and doing the best we can with what we have today. i have to let go of the anger from the past hurts and not expect anyone to do anything (like make amends to me). when i can live like that- one day at a time- then i am a happier person.

debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Oh I am so sad for you both. I did not get she had wanted out of the marriage.

I see you have really hung in there. So sorry you are hurt so much! It is a horrible loss.

It is natural to want to blame something, someone, but what is the true primary problem is the alcoholism, not AA.

I can tell you right now, if my A makes it to AA gets clean and does not want me anymore, it would kill me. I have gone thru 7 years now of this hell since his brain surgery and medical relapse.

I am so sad you have lost your marriage. I hope you keep coming back. This is a great healing place and lotsa people here under

stand and relate and we care very much.

Please forgive me for being wrong. I thought there was still hope.

I can tell you however, we never, ever know what the future will bring. I have loved my A since I was 17. He has been back and forth in my life ever since then.

You may find a break from the disease will do ya good. Going to meetings, reading literature, going to open aa meetings, can really help us.

Or even at first you may not want to think about alanon or anything at all.

Alanon has great principles and ways to make our lives sooo much better. Teaching us not to worry, learning to take on day at a time, teaching us what to fix, what not to fix and how to tell the difference.

It is the disease that you hate.

hugs, come back. love,debilyn

Ria · Senior Member

Honey, I hear your pain and I feel for you. For me though AA has been a positive experience though not without its flaws. Through Al-Anon I heard about attending open AA meetings so I did. My husband and I were separated and he was still active. AA members welcomed me and befriended me in my own right. I learnt a great deal from these people. There were many, many positives.

However, there were also some negatives. My divorce came through in May 2001. Later that year I allowed myself to be 13th-stepped by an AA member with supposedly several years sobriety. Never having heard of the 13th step, I learned the hard way that sobriety does not equal recovery. With hindsight I can see that this person took advantage of my vulnerability and that what attracted me to him was program-speak. I also learned the hard way what it meant to talk the talk as opposed to walking the walk. It was the sickest and ugliest relationship and a very dark and disturbing time in my life. It lasted all of about 6 weeks and it was 6 weeks too long. However, it was a crucial point in my life.

During one of our weekly 16hour arguments (that I tried desperately not to attend) I clearly remember him pressing just the right button and I lost it! I screamed "my A never treated me like this when he was p***ed, I'm damned if I'll let you do it sober" followed by a string of oaths...and I had been attending Al-Anon just shy of a year! He got physical, something my A never did and my reaction to it scared me so much (if I had made it to the kitchen, he would've been dead on my floor.) I fortunately had a moment of clarity and instead called the police to remove him from my property. The upshot of this was that I realised just how sick I had become and just how much I needed my own program. I even sought help from my GP regarding my own inclination to violence and was assured that in the circumstances this was a perfectly 'normal' reaction!! However, it motivated me to work my program better as it was not acceptable to me to allow myself to be driven to such extremes by someone-else's sickness.

Since then my A found recovery, we reconciled and were both supported by the AA fellowship as individuals and as a couple. Not once did the members judge me (openly or to my knowledge) or treat me differently knowing that I had that awful relationship and that I was now back with my husband. We attended AA meetings separately as well as together and I also continued with Al-Anon. I have a lot of gratitude and love for both fellowships but at the end of the day they are both constituted of sick people trying to get well and there are different levels of sickness within the rooms. Also, not all sickness is as a result of the alcoholism. That's where I believe the saying 'stick with the winners' comes from.

Yes, there is great emphasis on 'sobriety is your priority' in AA but their next drink could well be their last. Personally I have noticed slightly different focuses in the two fellowships. In Al-Anon I am encouraged to tend to my own needs as opposed to caretaking others and my A is encouraged to consider others as opposed to putting his own desires first. I am so sorry AA has been such a traumatic experience for you and was very surprised to hear of them 'closing ranks' as I was very much included. I am wondering if the type of questions you were asking may possibly have contravened the anonymity principle as otherwise I have always found them very willing to answer my questions in as far as they can from their own experiences. And just for the record, I thought I had landed myself in some kind of cult the first time I attended Al-Anon, today I recognise that it was the shared belief system, the feeling of solidarity and the talk of a Higher Power that made me so sceptical. I was so damaged and raw I was unable to embrace these concepts with an open mind and an open heart. Please stick with Al-Anon and give yourself the opportunity of recovery, who knows what your HP has planned for your life. In Al-Anon 'there is no situation too difficult to be bettered and no unhappiness too great to be lessened'.

Sorry it's so long. Hope it helps in some way. May you find some peace.

x Maria x

drucilla06 · Senior Member

(((james)))

Your post sends me back 16 years when my AH first got sober in AA.I was spending my Saturday nights alone for the first time in 20 years.It hurt.We had a very close,almost inmeshed marriage.We had unwritten rules,such as neither of us could have friends of the opposite sex.I can see now how sick we were but at the time I did not know it.Suddenly he was going to meetings and out for coffee with men AND women.Helped a woman in the program move.I was urged by my sister,a recovering A,to go to alanon and I tried it but just never got it.Now I do. It's too late for my marriage but not too late for me to recover from the damage of living with the disease.

I have heard it said that AA breaks up marriages, and I have seen marriages break up after the A got sober.I always thought that maybe those people,like my AH and I, were never really meant for eachother in the first place.It was our sicknesses that held us together.So when you come out of that and your eyes are opened, you may discover the person you are with isn't right for you.You may not like her sober.Since my A got sober we have had more arguments and anger and said awful things to eachother.

You said she is a different person, you are right, she is.She is having to face life without the escape,the crutch,and she has a disease trying to pull her back.You cannot help her fight this battle,she needs other alcoholics who have been through it.I used to think after my husband got sober he would be the same guy but just not drink.He isn't,he changed.I gotta say I liked him better drinking,but how selfish of me would it be to want him to die so I can have the man I loved back.

I remember complaining to my sister and her A husband about my husband being gone all the time and I was told that if I wanted him to quit drinking he would have to do this.His sobriety must come first over everything.It was a tough pill to swallow.

AA is not a cult.However I think there is fear in some A's that the spouse will pull the A back into drinking,though not intentionally.My husband's sponsor once told him that he thought I wanted him to drink.That really upset me.I didn't want him to drink,I just wanted the man I loved back.I didn't know that the only way to have him back was to have him drink.

Keep coming.There are online meetings and this board is a great place to vent and get perspectives from others who have been where you are.

Take care of you. d

-- Edited by drucilla06 at 01:30, 2006-07-26

jonibaloni · Veteran Member

As a recovering Alcoholic and Alanon myself, I must say that I have been soaking in each and every one of the replies on this topic. It forces me to look at myself and take inventory of whether I myself am practicing the principles at home, as well as out there in the world. There was a comic strip I saw once, with a picture of a lawn-mower sitting in the yard, with weeds overgrown all over it, and spiderwebs covering it. The caption said, "Bob's sponsor told him that the toughest place to practice the principles would be at home."

When I first got sober, I was engaged to a non-alcoholic. He was gung-ho, at first, about me being in recovery. He had been there to 'pick up the pieces' and clean up my vomit many times in the year prior. His whole life seemingly revolved around taking care of me and my string of crises. Rigth or wrong, as I began to get sober and attend AA meetings, I started to make all kinds of friends. I had not had friends--- real friends, since grade school. In retrospect, I was hanging out with people whom I could identify with, at the time. These were not the healthiest bunch of young men and women, but I felt safe because nobody was drinking, or encouraging me to drink. I also learned that an alcoholic stops emotionally maturing right around the time he or she begins to drink alcoholically. The natural process of finding good coping skills and implementing them is lost as alcoholics begin to drown all their feelings, good and bad, with alcohol. It is no small wonder that in the beginning, I and this group of friends I had made were hell-bent on seeking excitement. Yes, we were very selfish; we were trying to recover lost feelings.

About this time, my fiance' at the time joined alanon. He was not ready to implement all of what alanon teaches, but he did have a safe-haven for his feelings and concerns. I remember that he used to do a 'drive-by' just when the local AA Women's Meeting would be over... so I could see him from the parking lot. He did attend some open meetings with me and met a lot of my friends.

As I began to not 'need him' so much, he began to get restless, irritable and discontent. Bottom line is the relationship did not work out, even though we loved each other a great deal. Even 2 years after he moved across the country, and i had stayed sober, I got a phone call from him. He said, "What you have done to me won't go away... I am in a new relationship and have a hard time trusting her, and it is not fair to HER. It is YOUR fault." My first reaction was to beat myself up; that i had literally destroyed this man's life. Then I remembered what I had learned when I finally started 'growing up' in the program. I had made amends to this man the very best that I possibly could have, and the rest of the responsibility of his healing was just that... his responsibility. I said, "Have you been attending your AlAnonmeetings there in San Francisco?" He said, "No. They're not the same out here." (I live near Akron, Ohio.) In an effort to both set a healthy boundary, and take care of myself, I said, "There is your answer. I am sorry I have caused you the pain that I did. It has been over 2 years, and you already KNOW where you can get help for you... through AlAnon and even counselling." I have never heard from him again, and this was a few years ago... maybe 4 years, now.

As I look back on early days for me in AA, yes, I get very uncomfortable in thinking about my behaviors and attitudes back then. I was in my late 20's and acting like I was still 17. I had missed out on that part of my life sober... and was desparately trying to recover it. There is no excuse for how selfish I was. But looking back, if that is where I had to 'BE' in order to stay clean long enough to someday start growing up, then I guess it was necessary.

Over time, my life and my attitudes have changed. I have changed sponsors from one that was the 'fun-loving... let's start living' lady, to the lady I have now, who is more focused on practicing the principles in the book in ALL our affairs... home, job and otherwise. She teaches me how to use the AA and AlAnon principles to have a healthy and giving relationship with my present non-alcoholic husband. I have managed to finally begin to have some balance in my life... enough 'time' to spend with my AA support, as well as my husband and my family members. But it certainly has taken time and alot of work to learn and re-learn. I recently re-read the chapters in the book, "Alcoholics Anonymous" entitled "To Wives (also for husbands.. just change the wording to she...), and the chapter called "The Family Afterward." These chapters do not EXCUSE an alcoholic's selfish behavior upon first sobering up; they just let the spouse and family know what to expect. We all have to remember too, that alcoholics and alanons have likely been very ill for a long time, and it may take a very long time for us to even scratch the surface in getting well.

It is true, that the 'hardest place for an alcoholic to practice the principles is at home." seems when we sober up, we are stuck in a 'rut', if you will, of common reactionary behaviors, habits, of word and deed. Sometimes people will 'call it quits' when they can't break certain cycles on their own.. and sometimes, they come back after a time, with a new set of coping skills and reactions. For me, and from MY EXPERIENCE ONLY, I had to be alone for awhile in order to just simply grow up.

I am so sorry that you are caught in this phase; this cycle of the process, my friend. Nothing is more painful to an alcoholic than when he or she starts to get and feel better, and then the family or spouse starts to feel worse. There are some who have found it necessary to drink again over such guilt and remorse and frustration. I truly hope the best for you all. And I hope, as was suggested here over and over again, that you will delve into the AlAnon program where you have an outlet for your frustration, and where you will find some practical solutions. It is indeed about you, and not what the other person is or isn't doing, at this point.

AlAnon is a good place to learn how to make lemonade out of lemons.

Joniabloni

bubbles1990 · Senior Member

((((((((((((james)))))))))))) Hey I was reading your post! When I started Al-anon 2 years ago my husband (not A) felt the same way you did because when I started in Al-anon I was like all consumed with my al-anon group, sponsor,my books journaling, and recoveryHe felt left out he had no idea what was happening to our marriage and HE was Plain scared to death.. As someone has already said "My Huband didn't know what to do with CHANGE" He was used to me being SICK REAL SICK needing him very second of the day It was bad at times.... We went through some really rocky rocky rocky roads and he even made the decision to try al-anon for awhile just to see where i was coming from cause he had NO Clue I was going through all this stuff!!!! But as I worked my program I became healthier and he began to settle down and relax and things in our marriage settled down.... So I guess what i am saying is take it One Day At A Time.... Pleases be understanding of your A and keep and open mind and take this time to work on you!!!! Your recovery is for you and your happiness!!!!!

Pleases Understand I grew up with AWHOLE Family of alcoholic.... And I am not here for them But for ME!!!!!!!

Love Bubbles123

Karilynn · ~*Service Worker*~

((((((((((James))))))))),

Welcome to MIP. Here you find great stength, experience, hope, wisdom and a bit of humor (good for the ).

I am sorry that you are going through so much pain. I am very glad that your wife has found recovery. My hubby has found it as well. He is also a chronic relapser over the past 3 years. This time it is different. He is working harder than ever at his mental health issues. He goes to his meetings, outpatient mental health and sees a pyschiatrist as well. We don't have huge amounts of time together between his schedule and mine. But I'd rather him be sober than dead.

So many of the alcoholics have numbed their feelings with alcohol and now that they don't have their drug of choice, they have so many issues to deal with. Having said that, I know hard it can be for you to feel like you are taking a back seat to her recovery. But if you think about it, you were taking a back seat to her disease when she was still active. She still has the disease, and make no mistake about it, alcoholism is a disease. The bottom line is this: they only have 2 choices: 1) don't drink or 2) drink and die, be institutionalized or be in jail. Ask any addict, that's what they tell you. What would you choose for your wife? Would you rather her be dead? institutionalized? or in jail? I know this sounds harsh, but this disease is not pretty. There is no sugar coating this. The first year of recovery is the most important and hardest one they will ever go through. They have to do what they have to do in order to stay sober.

Hubby and I try to get to at least a couple of open AA meetings a week. It helps me gain perspective on the disease that I couldn't get from reading a book. I have always felt welcomed. We also have a daily ritual of doing readings both from AA meditations and Alanon. He likes the Alanon readings sometimes even more than his AA ones. It has brought us closer.

Now about you and your recovery. I say this to all the newbies here, as it reminds me too: You must not get lost in their disease. Your recovery has to be about you, regardless if your A chooses sobriety or not. Please try and get to some f2f meetings in your area. If not, join us for ours here. There are many good books for you to read about sobriety and relationships. Remember the dynamics of a relationship changes when an A gets sobriety. I find I need my program now more than ever.

I for one would rather give up more time with my hubby so that he can stay sober, than put flowers on his grave. Because that's what will happen if he drinks again. The doctors have told him so.

Live strong,

Karilynn

maresie2 · ~*Service Worker*~

For me personally being jealous of AA is similar to being jealous and feeling left out of the A's life most of the time. I did not specifically seek bottomlines like someone who would be there for me. I did not know my own bottom lines. Now I have more of an idea of them.

I think for me the red flags are a guide to taking care of me.

I try to keep the focus off the A and what he needs to do and more on me and what I need to do. If I am feeling like I am bereft and abandoned I need to take care of me.

Maresie

MrsGratitude · Veteran Member

James -

Recovery is absolutely worth the effort. It is a miracle that your wife has found sobriety and recovery. But - it is her miracle. You need to jump head first into your own recovery and create your own miracle!!!

Call your local Al-Anon office for a list of meetings and get started today!!!!

It gets better!!

Mrs. Gratitude

ernie · Member

(((James)))

Your post definately struck home for me. I can only share with you my personal experience with AA and recovery, the good and the bad, how it has affected me, and the path I have choosen today to work my own recovery.

My AH has 15 months soberity. The day he went to the his first meeting I would have laid odds that within a month he would have relapsed. He is my 3rd A and I had seen both of my previous A's go in and out of the program.

Needless to say ours wasnt a happily ever after, hubby gets sober, story. At 3 months he became "involved" with a woman in the program. Long story short it was classic 13th stepping. I played "the good supportive" wife and believed the "she is helping me work thru the steps" from my H. She played me too with the "I have no interest in your H other than the program". She had over 10 years in the program and I put way too much faith in that soberity. I saw the red flags and ignored them for a long time. By the time I stepped up and said this is wrong it was too late. They had crossed the line.

Over a 5 month period we played the "game" as i call it. I didnt want to give up on the marriage. I put up with being 2nd. I threw him out of our home 3 times. I begged for him to choose me. I got angry and raged at him for lying and cheating. I blamed AA, I blamed her, I blamed myself, I blamed him. All that time I didnt get better. Yes i was going to meetings. I read the literature. I would come here and talk to people. I tried desperately to apply the al-anon tools to my broken heart. It hasnt worked well for me.

Where we are at today is my H has come home. My theory is...I will only judge you by your actions, his words hold no meaning. So many lies have made it impossible for me to trust what he tells me now. I know he is not drinking. Today I see that he is trying to work a better program. But all is not wonderful. He still has his flaws, after all he is an alcoholic. I do hold huge resentments against AA. not so much as a whole but the "click" that he was part of. The ones who seemed to accept that this married man was cheating on his wife and it was OK because he was sober.

I do know many in AA who have been part of my personal support group. My al-anon home group is actually an AA/Al-anon meeting. I have seen recovering alcoholics working the 12 steps of AA. I have heard thier stories. They give me hope that true recovery for an alcoholic is out there.

For me one of the biggest hurdles i have crossed is when i accepted the fact that while I cherish the al-anon principals and i try to apply them to my life on a daily basis. When it comes to my husbands infidelity it isnt that simple. There has been a lot of damge done to our relationship. I cant just say ok. it is in the past and let it go at that. What i can do is not make every moment of our lives about it. For me i find that about once a week it comes to the surface. At first i stuffed it down. Telling myself that I wasnt "working my program" I would beat myself up because i could "let go". I have accept that it isnt meant to just be let go. It is going to require work on both of our parts. My H would rather if I never brought it up. what he doesnt understand is that "she" is in my head constantly. I know that isnt his fault. That is my personal obsession. That is where i need to work on me. I hope slowly with time we can rebuild our marriage.

I do not let my obsession interfer with his attending meetings. Or with his "socializing" with other's from AA. I have told him that if his friendships are just friendships then there should be no reason to sneak around lie or hide them from me. I remind myself that I have been hurt and that it is ok to feel that pain. Quiet often i express my pain with anger as this is a safer emotion for me. When i realize that is what i have done i admit it to my H and apologize. Not for being hurt but for expressing my feeling in anger.

For me i will continue to work MY program to the best of my ability. today the biggest thing i can do for me is to be kind to myself. To NOT beat myself up. But also not to beat up those around me. I use the serenity prayer to get me thru my rough moments.

15 months ago i can honestly say that Divorce was a constant thought on my mind. With everything that has happened I am not surprise to find myself still thinking of it. But today that is ok. God will let me know when the time is right which direction i should go. Until them I will try one day at a time, little by little to be a better friend to myself.

James, I dont know if this will help you and your situation at all. I do want to thank you for your post. I have needed to write the things i have writen here for quite a while but have alway shestitated for fear that people would think i wasnt appreciative that my A is sober. I thank God that he found soberity. But soberity didnt mean happily ever after. That is the long road we all work for. whether it be with the A's in our lives or without.

Keep coming back. If nothing else when you least expect it someone will surprise you and say something that will help you thru.

-- Edited by ernie at 19:42, 2006-07-27

JamesUK · Member

Just an update to the situation.

I've not been to this site much lately because the children have been on school hols and so ive struggled to cope what with trying to keep them occupied and and at the same time trying to accept that my marriage is most likely over and i will have to leave the family home........She has retracted her request for a divorce, but she still feels she knows whats best for us and still thinks that i should move out so that we can have some time apart....it's nice of her to take it upon herself to know whats best for us without even asking me how I feel!!

I now have to find and furnish a new home (obviously with enough room for the children to be able to stay over with me for half the week) just because SHE knows whats best??

I do feel though that once im settled into my own place and my children are back and fore to me for half the week that i will start to settle down and in time accept the situation.

I just feel ( at the moment anyway) that after all this i can't ever see me wanting to go back to the situation i was in with her......It just seems to me that ever since she went into treatment i've had nothing but lies, deceit, manipulation and most of all selfishness beyond belief which in the end has cost me my marriage..........I was under the impression that it's drummed into them how much damage they've caused etc, and how they are supposed to try make amends but i've had nothing of the sort, quite the opposite in fact.

I am truly baffled at the way she has changed, i dont know her anymore, she has caused so much damage to our relationship that most of the time these days i dont know if i even like her anymore.........

Never in a million years did i ever think i would be put under so much strain emotionally, i've been hurt too much through all this and for that i dont know if i can ever forgive her, so i don't hold out much hope for a reconcilliation.

-- Edited by JamesUK at 21:47, 2006-09-19

JamesUK · Member

Bump!

I updated this post a few days ago and it didnt seem to go back to page 1 but i wanted some of your thoughts on it so i bumped it back up.

happy guy · Newbie

Wow, exactly what happened to me. One day she said she wanted to go to AA, I said why? She said she is an alchoholic, and needed a change in her life, that was the last I seen of the wife I fell in love with. The new friends after hearing her bear her soul, have now swarmed in and she is now dating one of them. I am a good father and also a good husband, I do not deserve UNTRAINED PEOPLE manipulating my wife, I went to the meetings, stopped drinking myself and was met with resistance from them to let her go free. She argues unless she gets her way. I don't want anyones sympathy, I am stating what is happening. We have been separated for 6 months and the papers are on the way. I have noticed that if I agree with anything she says, right or wrong she is not so b**tchy and actually makes her forget what she is mad about. I have taken the blame for a lot of stupid crap over the last 4 years, tried my hardest, but for the people knowing her weaknesses it is very easy to manipulate. I focus on my two girls which live with her, only reason I am still around the area. The 12 step program is a joke in my opinion, look into what the author was all about and make up your own mind. It does not work. I am confident a person when they chose themselves to give it up, they can do it. It is all what you want to believe. I don't believe that trading one addiction for another like cigarettes and drinking coffee is the better choice for alchohol. They can drive drunk people around all night but will get pissed if I have a beer when I BBq. WTF!

MyBrokenHeart · Member

AA ruined my family.

Long story short: I was married to a woman I still love dearly to this day. She was an addict and we ended up divorcing over it a couple of months ago. We still have a custody hearing coming up and I'm going to get awarded custody of our son.

Nomatter what she's done, I still love her. We have had a good relationship as parents and we've been together since the divorce. After all she's done to me, I would do anything for her to be with me. And she was after she got out of treatment. She was sweet and kind and loving and just being around her kept me from being depressed.

Then the AA meetings came. And she became emotionally detached from me. She says she was with me, but as it turns out she was also seeing someone from one of her meetings. (Her sponsor found her second husband at AA, so I'm sure she's a great role model).

She won't give me the time of day now and puts going to her meetings over me, and even her children. She goes to 5-7 meetings a week and some nights she doesn't come back home until midnight.

But basically the point I've gathered is that AA people don't give a crap about mending the relationships they've destroyed through their addiction.

I've begged her to spend at least a night out of the week with me and the kids, but to her that's me "stopping her recovery."

They've forgiven themselves, and they're all that matters.

It seems to me that AA is indeed very cultish and that nothing outside matters to them.

"But AA is a life saver, and that's what's important, screw you and your family and your feelings!"

Bargee · Veteran Member

What is the 13th Step?

Dolly Llama · Senior Member

I must admit I feel a little uncomfortable with the AA bashing. It is okay to express our feelings. It is okay to be angry at the disease and even the recovery process. I don't hear anyone saying screw you and your family and your feelings. And for what it's worth, I have never heard that at a meeting.

But please don't paint AA with one broad stroke. Perhaps it is not the program's doing, but the individual's. Some people can, do, and will use "recovery" for reasons that have nothing to do with actual recovery. AA and other 12 Step programs are full of people who are still sick.

Just a consideration.

Al Anon has saved my life, just as AA has saved lives. When I truly work on letting go, accepting what is, and letting my HP take charge, things get so much better.

bettyboop · Member

Hi James:

I just wanted to share this: Frogiveness is not something we do for OTHER PEOPLE...We do it for OURSELVES - to GET WELL and MOVE ON.

As well as:

Perhaps taking the focus off of her and what responsibility she holds to make things right and make amends and put the focus on you and your behavior...In this way you can see what part you have played in this situation...

Ask yourself:

If it were me, would I be worth it?

What behaviors can I change to make a change?

I recently got out of a relationship that was so extremely toxic, that I comtemplated suicide...since leaving the relationship and moving to my own place, I have never been happier. I am calm, I sleep well, I'm comfortable not only in my home but in my own skin.My home is quiet, peaceful and serene!

I was only able to find this peacefulness in my life because Al-Anon helped me see that I AM WORTH IT!!! Best desision I ever made...

I wish for you to continue to give Al-anon a chance...have an open mind and open heart. Read, listen with the prospect of hearing something that says, "Hey, I need to take care of me"!

(((James))) Hugs to you! I will keep you in my prayers...

bryan · Newbie

I understand where you're at. AA ruined my relationship completely and it has taken time and therapy for me to work through what happened. A lot of people say that an A has to put AA first before everything else or they are going to die, but I don't believe my ex would have "died" if it weren't for AA. I don't even necessarily think my ex is an A and I believe that time and growth would have led us to a better place than we were in before. The fear tactic is very cultish to me, and the fact that many have similar experiences with their significant others putting AA before their family is very sad in my opinion, especially without a proper diagnosis. I do recommend Alanon, however, I just found it when it was too late...(it can be weird and cultish as well, so if you have a hard time with that, it may not be right for you, but at least they talk about solutions and you can talk about your relationship with people who are in similar situations). Good luck.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"