The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I have hesitated about posting this, probably because 1. once again I feel like I am the only one in the entire world who could possibly be experiencing this 2. I fear the responses thatI may get. So hopefully I can push the submit button when I am done and let my Higher Power do the rest.
Quick synopsis, my husband and I have been separated since December. The separation was my choice, I needed to get off the roller coaster and get my head together. It is not a legal separation, neither of us have seen lawyers, we have daily contact by phone and see each other a few times a week. It is pretty much amicable. He has a dual diagnosis of addiction (primarily alcohol) and bi-polar. He claims (notice the trust issue) to be sober since December, is being treated for the bi-polar with lithium but I believe is no longer participating in any type of psychotherapy.
So.....He tells me about 3 weeks ago that he is going to have a vasectomy. Actually went for the initial consultation, scheduled the procedure and had it done yesterday.
No discussion with me, my opinion was not sought, my thoughts were not considered. Yes, this is something we had discussed in the past. However, never a real serious discussion. I would say something like the procedure is a lot easier for a male than a female, or the fact that I did not like to take birth control. But to actually go and do it, no never that in depth of a conversation....
So why now, ok, my own disease it really kickin' in with this one. The impulsivity of the decision, the lack of communicaiton about a decision that so obviously affect me as well as him. Yes, I know it is his choice to do what he wants with his body. But even when I asked him about it, he could not give me an answer, said he really did not know why now. I said something to the effect, "such a major decision and you did not even process it first" he said no, not really...
I cannot even really wrap my brain around this whole thing, so yes, I am going to just hit submit and hope for some ESH.
Forget the roller coaster, I am on the loop de loop,
I really don't have much to say on this subject. I had asked my husband to get a vasectomy several times. I cannot have anymore children as a pregancy would be dangerouse to me. A lot of damage was done during my last pregnancy. My husband completely refuses, and he tells me his Mother told him not to do it. His logic is that just becasue I can't have anymore children, why should he have to have them touch "the family jewels" as he puts it.
I have also told him that the male procedure is much easier and less invasive than for a woman. He won't hear it.
Maybe your husband was doing it as a control issue, that since you are seperated, he doesn't need your say so. Maybe he meant it as a way of doing it for you. I agree you are married and it does effect both of you, so you should have discussed it together, but the only one who can tell you why he did it, is him. Also if he told you three weeks ago, maybe he figured that if you where against it, you would have told him not to. I have found that my idea of a discussion and my husbands idea of a discussion are two different things. To him, if he mentions something in passing and I don't tell him I am against it, then we discussed it.
Wish I could help more.
The only thing I can say, is what is done is done, dwelling on it will only make you crazy. Keep teh focus on you.
I am so sorry for the wild ride!! Maybe in some weird way he thought you would appreciate him taking that initiative???!! Who knows why a's do what they do???!!!
I hope you find a way to deal with this. I guess you can be glad that now you don't have to go through any kind of procedure?!
I just want you to know I am thinking about you and praying for you.
Really hard to say on that one Lynn, even trying to offer a male perspective here.... I gotta be honest - my 'gut reaction' is similar to yours, in that why now?? is he doing this so he can sleep around "freely" without risk of getting anyone pregnant, etc., etc...
Then I catch myself (like you are doing :), and my program kicks in a bit... That is one of those "why" questions that can drive us bonkers, but 'even if we knew the answer it really wouldn't change anything'.....
It may be possible that this is your HP asking you to reflect/figure out what you two guys are doing as a couple, etc., as your situation seems very undecided and tentative.... Separating, but having daily contact, is sometimes the alcoholic's version of "perfection", as he doesn't really lose you, but doesn't have to be nearly as accountable to anyone on a daily basis. (no judgement there, but that was my experience, when I did the same thing for waaaay too long). You end up living your life in 'limbo', and he in his disease, is happy as a lamb, having the best of both worlds here.
Just some food for thought.... Personally, I think either option - either leave and formally separate, OR stay together and try to work through things (or at least put some time and other stipulations in) are workable, whereas the situation you two are in right now, is very trying on you for sure...
Take care
Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Hello, confused, The best thing to do is to keep the focus on you. Your upset and confusion right now seem pretty natural in light of the gravity of your husband's actions. How does this make you feel? Is this what you want and need in a relationship? The best thing I know to do is to go to meetings, get a sponsor, and work the Steps as if your life depended upon it. In fact, our lives do depend upon it. Our health - emotional, spiritual, and physical, depend on us getting better, and that means work - on ourselves, with a sponsor who can guide us and challenge us. The Steps are miracles, if we work them. Blessings and prayers for you, confused, mebjk
I don't have a clue why most people do what theu do. I can sure understand your confusion and nervousness about his impulsive actions. It happens sometimes even when we know we are healthier not letting it get the best of us.
What I really wanted to say though is Way to go on pyshing the submit button! Sometimes it is harder to share than other times, and those are usually the thinga I need to share the most.
You have had some great shares here... there is no telling why he has drifted to this conclusion. After everyones urgings here, I try not to ask why anymore.... when I do it...it really does help.
For me I worked real hard to pick out the things that were coherant thoughts, from the BS "lets see what he thinks about this..." thoughts. Finally I have decided that I can't tell the difference... so she can sort that out for herself.
I take everything she says into account... but I have to make decissions based on what I think and let her do what she finally decides to do.
He may never have the proceedure done. He impulsively said he's going to do this... his next impulse may be to run naked down the road and bark at the neighbor's dogs... Might make him forget all about it. (would me... LOL)
Take care of you!
__________________
"Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement" - unknown
I haven't read what other's have said yet, but wanted to post my own ESH. My A has those ups and downs to. Bipolar in itself can be a roller coaster ride. I'm learning that expecting anything sets me up for disappointment. If your A is on meds consistently and sober life may look different for him, but if he's self medicating with alcohol and not consistent then forget it all reasoning is gone. I'm sure he thought about the procedure he had to make the appointment, the consultation and the actual act of having it done. That takes some organization of thought. Why he didn't consult you first, no idea what's going on in his head. There's probably so much going on up there that he may not be able to make sense of it. I know this decision must hurt, its done now. Express your hurt, ask yourself what you need to be o.k. and move on from this. I agree its his body, women make these choices everyday, and lots of women make them with out consulting their partners. It stinks I don't agree that a true partnership is based on that kind decision making, but many do. When my A was gone for a while he became very detached and cold. Out of sight out of mind. Sometimes I felt like he forgot we even existed. He was so wrapped up in his own little world or being single, drinking, going out, whatever he wanted he didn't have time to think about the family that was doing other things. The less you expect from him the more opportunities that present themselves to you to take care of your needs on your own. Be good to you this weekend.
Hugs,
Twinmom~
__________________
"The people who don't mind matter and the people who mind, don't matter". (Dr. Seuss)
I am very sorry... guess I am the one confused. I didn't read or take in the part about acturally having it done. I was thinking along the lines of another "big plan" that may never happen.
I hope my post didn't upset you or seem flippant... I didn't mean it that way.
Everyone here is in such emotional pain from time to time... I was trying to lighten things up a bit and picked a really poor time to do it I'm afraid.
Please accept my apology if I upset you...
__________________
"Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement" - unknown
Just a thought on the matter but seeing as both bipolar disorder and alcoholism are problems that can be passed on maybe the A didn't want to take that risk. I know how hard living with someone with bipolar can be my A too shows major symptoms of that though he has not been actually diagnosed. If we find it hard to live with someone with major ups and downs just imagine how hard it is being the person actually living with the ups and downs.
I went through something similar with my husband when we were separated early in our marriage.
I was horrified as I was hoping to have another child with him as it was my second marriage. I have an only child from my first marriage.
I had held on to most of my baby things from my daughter to have another child someday. What he did really hurt me.
He too suddenly decided to have a vasectomy. It is still a painful subject with me. He has had numerous girlfriends before me who got pregnant with sloppy birth control, they all got abortions. OK, this man is sloppy with brith control with casual girlfriends and then gets a vasectomy with HIS WIFE!? What is going on here?
Well, we ended up getting back together and these were his reasons for getting a vasectomy when he did.
1) He had always wanted to have one, but never made time for it in his swinging single days, counting on the fact that most women want abortions (in his opinion and experience). Once he was married, he knew chances were slim that his WIFE would want an abortion, so he had to be more "responsible" and get some foolproof birth control.
2) We were separated when he made the decision. He knew that chances were that we may get back together...even temporarily...and he did not want to risk a pregnancy that would MAKE us need to get back together. If things did not work out, he wanted a clean break. This seemed to be forefront on his mind.
3) He was getting older and so were the women he would probably be with and he knew that if he was with another women who got pregnant that likely an older woman in her thirties would not so easily abort a baby as a early twenties female college athlete would be.
4) Living through a separation and possible divorce made him really "grow up" and re-think his life and the decisions he was making. He decided that he did not want to have any children...with anyone...so it was high time he did something about it. Facing the consequences of his actions, as in the separation made him accutely aware of the fact that he would have to live with decisions he made.
5) He hates birth control and the prospect of being single again made him think about the possibilities for sex in the vast world and how he could more easily enjoy it freely.
So, there is the persepective of an alcoholic male...
Notice the total absence of thoughts about me and my wishes?
This is par for the course with an alcoholic, it is all about them.
My husband never thinks in terms of "we" but only in terms of what is best for HIM. He even says "What is best for me is best for us as if I am not happy I doubt you will be happy (as in he will pout and scowl and let out his resentment at every turn until I can't stand the sight of him)". SIGH! Spoken like a true narcissist (and total jerk).
Over the years though I began to see things from a better perspective. Is it really so wrong for my husband to realize that he is a selfish sick jerk and would make a lousy Dad and to prevent a child from having a Dad like that? Don't we have enough reluctant Dad's in the world who don't support their children and ignore them and cause them immesurable pain?
Yes, when you are married you are supposed to function as a partnership...but that is difficult under the best of circumstances, nearly impossible when married to a self absorbed addict, for whom self absorption is often the prevailing symptom of addiction.
I kept hoping that someday my husband would find recovery, and maybe, just maybe could look into a reversal surgery. Fat chance...
When I turned forty a short time ago, I finally gave up on this dream. I sold or gave away most of my outdated baby things. It was hard for me.
Still, I am not bitter. I always had choices. If having another child really meant that much to me, I could have divorced him and married someone else. My religious beliefs do not allow for this, but I still have choices. I could have separated from him and adopted a child. That is still possible, as long term marriage is often at best uncertain in an alcoholic marriage.
Also, now I am grateful for his choice. Would I really want a child born into this marriage? I have a child from my first marriage. He is supposed to be her "Dad" and a sorry one he is. I am 99% responsible for all parenting duties and responsibilities. He did not even bother to show up for any of her few school plays or concerts. There was a time a few years ago that I got laid off from my job and my husband was really really into his addiction. He was making $50,000.00 a year, we only had one child and he was giving me no grocery money and buying no groceries (he ate at restaurants and bars and drankt he rest of his nutritional needs) and we were visiting soup kitchens as we did not qualify for any government assistance due to his high income. SIGH! That is the kind of "Dad" he is, not providing for his daughter to the point of me having to take her to soup kitchens. I was simply too embarrassed to admit to any family or friends the dire straits we were in. Who would believe a person with a community oriented responsible high paying job would not provide FOOD for his family? Although if there were not a soup kitchen in my smally town I would not have let my daughter go hungry, I would have swallowed my pride and asked for help.
AND, when we had yet another separation two years ago he told my daughter "I am divorcing YOU and your Mom!!! I am going to have a clean break from BOTH OF YOU!". This was after he legally adopted her. Yeah, some Dad...good thing he is not a "Dad" to anyone else.
I strongly believe wholeheartedly that parents really need to think carefully about the needs of any children they bring into the world. Children are not puppies...they need more than a place to sleep and food to eat and medical care (and many alcoholics don't even provide that!). They need all of the nurturance, care, and love TWO parents can give them. Children don't ask to be born, they come into the world trusting that their parents will care for them.
I am glad that a self absorbed narcissist like my husband got a vasectomy, before he ever had a child born to him. He would make a horrible and abusive, neglectful lousy Dad. I give him a tremendous amount of credit for KNOWING this... Before he got the vasectomy, he told me that if I ever got pregnant he would not leave me because that would make him look really really bad, but he would be so "unhappy" (as in act like such a jerk) that I would ask him to leave. There you go...so much for parental instincts.
I know you have mixed feelings. But remember, when you are dealing with an active alcoholic you are not dealing with a "normal" and rational person. They are often led about by their selfish whims and have trouble thinking about tomorrow.
As a teacher, I have seen countless neglected and abandoned children and applaud any man who realizes they are a selfish addicted jerk and prevent themselves from bringing another one of these sad children into the world. As a wife of one of these men, I cry for myself and all of the other wives in the world who were unable to share the joy of becoming a parent the right way in their marriages with the man that they chose above all others to have a family with.
Thank you all so much for your replies. You have all given me some things to think about. I am still having a very difficult time, but just knowing that I can reach out to you all and know that I will be heard is comforting.
