It's just a good thing I don't own a weapon. - Al-Anon Family Group

Fedora · Senior Member

It's just a good thing I don't own a weapon.

JerryF · ~*Service Worker*~

((((Fedora)))) yep that is the definition of insanity; the insanity I also went thru and yes I almost killed my alcoholic/addict in a fit of rage even in the midst of her telling me "I deserved that". God we were sick and alcoholism was the justification. She wasn't a bad person and I wasn't either but we were certifiably sick. Your thinking of the violent reactions are damaging on the mental, emotional and spiritual levels. It would be helpful to be near meetings, near a sponsor or others in the program you can speak with real time including this board. I know what your are going thru it is etched in my memory and my Alcoholic/Addict's past. Thank God for God I can pray while I remember what this disease has done in my entire life.

I learned that the opposite of resentment is forgiveness...do the opposite. have a safe night. smile smile

2HP · Senior Member

You're okay (((my friend))) life is terribly difficult with an alcoholic husband, I know. But I am here to tell you there is hope. While it's unfortunate you cannot get with a F2F group at this time...

... if you have any al-anon literature, reading on such topics as Step One, Detachment, Anger, and Disappointment... always took my attention off of HIM... gave me some comfort... and cooled the flames.

Notice that whatever your mind focuses on... GROWS. If you focus on him and what he is doing/not doing... your anger gets bigger. That is an unkind thing to do to YOU, anger threatens our own health.

Keep focus on your detachment and recovery and deep breathing and self-nurturing...

It gets better, I promise, one day at a time. Take good care. I will be sending you much healing, love, light and patience from my end.

-- Edited by 2HP on Monday 27th of April 2020 11:53:00 PM

2HP · Senior Member

Sometimes when my mind is racing and life feels unmanageable, I practice loving-kindness meditation. Find your own words, I keep mine simple...

May I be peaceful.

May I be happy.

May I be safe.

May I awaken to the light of my true being.

May I be free.

...over and over and over until calmness returns. Then include all others, "May all be peaceful... happy... safe, etc. "

mamalioness · ~*Service Worker*~

(((((((((((((((((Fedora)))))))))))))))))) You got GREAT ESH here, I've been where you are at....It sucks!!! the rage and resentment they (active A's) cause, yea, it can boggle my mind, the murderous thoughts I would have, but thank God, never acted out on....the closest i got was when he shoved me backwards over the kitchen sink, nearly tossing my back out or worse, I grabbed his dad's Japanese Bayonet and I chased him out of the house, swinging that thing, "I'll kill you if you touch me again" I screamed...Landlord and his two sons grabbed me and disarmed me and THEY caught up with him and roughed him up real bad and told him that he would be in a wheel chair if he touched me again....He stayed away from me after that, but I packed up and moved....One of us, I could see, was going to get hurt because I draw the line when the physical stuff comes in---that is a deal breaker

if its just verbal and stupid things they do, and I'm not in danger, PERHAPS, I could just detach, reach out to recovery mates, disconnect from him, but wold I still stay??? now??? with recovery???? dunno, because I avoid substance abusers now....my EX AH #2 was a sweet guy but an alcoholic....I wanted us both in recovery, but he refused...I , when he refused, told him I was "done with this" and he moved back on the ship.....Yea, I missed him because he was a good guy..functioning at the time and nice to me....but I just sat down and asked me, is this what I want in my life??? is this my future??? when I got into program, i saw folks who cold make it work....some, like me, could not...its a very personal choice

but stay?? go???? I would be clinging onto my recovery mates and the steps , loads of self talk encouraging me to just take care of me...let everything out of my realm of power GO and look after me....let him to his own devices...let him reap what he is sowing and step out of the way.....

so sorry you are having to go through this.....FIRST thing i asked my roommate.....do you drink???? do any illegal substances or abuse any that you have for the anxiety?????? she said unequivocally, "NO" but my first questions to her were: do you drink???? abuse your meds or other substances????? when her refs said "NO" and she DID, before her back injury work at day care center, so yea, she was a good risk...

that is how paranoid I am about substance abusers....I just don't want to "do it again" with ANYONE!!!!

stay strong and stick wtih us....we are here...we are listening

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

When I was at my all-time low...I was broken, desperate, hopeless, and helpless. I was in so much pain that bearing it was no longer an issue, I was simply trying to figure out how long I could last before my body gave out and I died. I ended up in the hospital and after countless tests, one doctor, a specialist they brought in, simply said your body is simply not able to handle this mental pressure, stress, etc. It was that moment...where I made the decision to get better. Period. Recovery -- the way it was explained to me -- became the most important thing in my life. It was more important than me trying to get my wife to stop drinking. It was more important than me "allegedly" saving my wife's life...although I really wasn't, she didn't need saving, she didn't feel she needed it, she didn't want it, and so on and so on. Saving her was my excuse to do what I was doing and to try and get what I wanted...which was her to stop drinking and for us to have our life as we knew it before back.

That said, I was at my low. My mind was completely not functioning. I couldn't even get gas at the gas station without messing up that simple process. That night, I was home, exhausted, ready to pass out from exhaustion, but not able to because of anxiety. I came "into contact" with two human emotions, two actions, two things...which everyone "knows" about, but truly doesn't understand. But at that moment, I did. I came "into contact" with two things that I never thought I would or could do -- and I would never, ever do either, and couldn't do either. I came "into contact" with two things...one was suicide and the other was murder. I know have a different understanding of the former, and the same, but additional, understanding of the latter.

While I am a man, and my wife is a woman, my anger, frustration, and everything else...absolutely got me to the point where had it been a man, my "norm" would have been superseded by my common sense -- as I didn't have any at the time, I was completely not logical -- and I would have hit the person with a frying pan...more than once!!! LOL.

I have to run into a web meeting with a client...however, in my experience...this was a loud and clear, fireworks, explosion, red flags abound signal to me...to look at me. Period. My recovery, my program...who I was being.

More to follow...

-- Edited by Bo on Tuesday 28th of April 2020 10:38:36 AM

tiredtonite · Veteran Member

"thanks for listening. I'm going to back to meditating on "I didn't cause it, I can't control it, I can't cure it". If anyone needs to find me, you'll find me back somewhere between step zero and step 1."

That's what stands out for me in your post (((fedora)) I empathize with you. So many of us have had these moments of anger and frustration and then a sense of hopelessness. But the solution is in the steps.

I'm not going to do an expecially deep dive into the bad old days because honestly it adds nothing to my life as it is today. Instead, I'll just say I hear you, understand those feelings, the venting and like the way you've circled back to a recovery solution.

When I was living with someone active and felt powerless, the best thing I did for myself was to begin a Plan B to get out. I didn't know at the time whether I would ever act upon it but it was life affirming "my life." My sponsor helped me out of my dependency on my exah to define my quality of life. He wasn't the participating partner in our marriage as he had once been and it was in my best interest to stop waiting for him to show up. The Plan B helped because when resentment and anger welled up in me, I was able to say to myself whatever, I have a plan I'm working on to be able to take care of myself no matter what he is doing.

It's hard right now to be under the same roof if you are going through stay at home recommendations. You're using meditation. I think that's is a great tool because it can be used anywhere, any time. Especailly now, getting out for a walk by myself has helped me to mentally regroup. It's difficult to be with family members 24/7 and not be able to do all the things we're use to doing especially going to a f2f meetings and connecting in person.

I can hear in your post how sad you feel and frustrated that he isn't getting well. He hasn't changed and you may be wondering what does it take to get through to him. It's hard to witness that. Please keep sharing. You're working your program. Expressing anger here at the board doesn't mean you aren't making progress. For me, feeling anger especially when I was a newcomer was progress. This board is here so we don't have to stuff our feelings. At times it's helped me to keep my feelings from coming out sideways on another person. It's good to get others perspectives and be supported.

Thank you for sharing. (((hugs)) TT

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

So...yes, many, many times, been there, had numerous cups of coffee, done that...and without intended action steps...no, I didn't get better.

I too thought I had made all kinds of progress -- why? -- because I went to countless meetings, did the readings, had a sponsor, worked the steps, and did so much more. That in and of itself goes to show you -- what I learned and in my experience -- that alanon is a program of action. Some action. It is a program of change. Some change. When you are ready. But, in my experience, what I experienced, and learned...it is something! Some change, some action. Yes, there is much complacency here in alanon, for many reasons. Sometimes it's because people talk the talk but don't walk the walk. Other times it's because, yes, I agree -- the alcoholic is passed out and we don't have to face or handle the situation. You are 1000% correct -- the alcoholic is absolutely a burden. The alcoholic is absolutely a liability.

As I said, for me, this was a telling moment...I had to look at me!!! ME. Yes, I too was so angry!!! And that's OK. That feeling, that anger is real. Anyone who denies it by ignoring and saying some slogans might be "not angry" for a moment or two, but they did not SOLVE the problem of anger consuming them, them being an angry person, etc. Yes, I completely agree with you about the button pushing. Whether intentional or not -- at some point, we allow it. Spout off some catch-phrases, and that works, but in the moment. That is NOT CHANGE and does not CHANGE WHO YOU ARE. That is what I experienced in 26 years in the program...right up through today. Not feeling sorry for the alcoholic 24/7 is OK. These are feelings. If you are feeling them, feel them. Don't fight them. BUT, BUT, BUT, don't let them consume you. Accept you feel that way, feel it and surrender to it...and then let it go and focus on you and your recovery. We have a process for that!!! LOL. I was angry, felt like hitting someone with a frying pan, or something else, LOL, and was simply consumed by the anger. Saying the serenity prayer, a slogan, or ten of them, helped in the moment...BUT I WAS STILL AN ANGRY PERSON. That's not what I wanted in my recovery. I wanted to let go and get rid of the anger so that I was no longer an angry person. I wanted to not allow my buttons to be pushed and be immune to that. I wanted to be healthy!!! Side note, once I was, I was then able to have compassion for the alcoholic. That didn't mean I didn't stand by my boundaries, detach, not enable, etc. -- but I was healthy!!! And I was able to treat the alcoholic with compassion, even when they treated my poorly and like crap! I didn't accept unacceptable behavior -- NOT AT ALL -- but I was still able to have compassion for the alcoholic...just like I do today!

That said, I want to add one other side note -- I also didn't let "stories" of "probably" rule my life. If I wanted to get a divorce, I met with the attorney and explored my options and GOT THE FACTS about spousal support. Even though my wife did not have a job, the law dictated that "imputed income" was in fact allocated to her, and I was not on the hook based upon her earning zero!!! Regardless, I don't let "probably" drive my decision making. I allow facts and educated, qualified advice to do so.

So, I applied the first three steps. You see, the first three steps have nothing to do with the alcoholic. They exclusively have to do with ME. Look at the words. The words are "WE" and "OUR" -- not "him" or "her" -- and they speak to us, and what we are. All the steps have that orientation! They are steps -- solutions -- for US. Not the alcoholic. I accepted what I was feeling. I accepted it and I did not fight it. I felt it and accepted it -- to the point that I did not deny it, fix it, control it, or force it to go away. I then was able to surrender to it and embrace what I was feeling, without the resistance and denial. I surrendered it and let it exist...BUT...without letting it consume me and make me take action based upon those feelings. These first two steps take time. They are not instantaneous nor take a few minutes, or even and hour or two. Time takes time. Then, lastly, I was able to let it go and get past those feelings. I was able to get to the core of who I was, who I was being. What I am talking about here doesn't come as a result of going to meetings, doing readings, or reciting some slogans. It was a process, one that took some time, and one that took CHANGE and ACTION on my part. God did not come down from heaven and bestow this upon me. I had to do the work!!! It might be just me, but that's what I found...the work, the real work, takes place in doing work, with your sponsor, outside meetings, outside readings, etc.

For me, the work, doing the work, took place outside of face to face meetings. For me, it was not something I could do on the internet. It was not something I could simply read about in a book. Talk to any coach, therapist, professional, or healthy person who has been in program for an extended period of time, and they will tell you...they didn't do the steps, they didn't do Step 4, they didn't get better, they didn't get healthy...BY THEMSELVES. The alanon program tells us that something other than ourselves, something outside of us, can and will help us to get better. It is our thinking, our actions, our behavior...that got us here...it is something else, someone else, something bigger than us, something outside of us...along with change and action...that will allow us to get better. That is what I learned and what I experienced. If I am not in denial, then I can do the work. I have found that many people don't face the reality of the situation, because they are denial...and because they don't want to! And that's OK. When you are ready, you'll be ready. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe never. If you'll be ready, you'll be ready when you are ready. Time takes time. A legendary man in the alanon program says "Little By Slowly" -- and there is meaning behind those words. There is meaning behind every one of our slogans and behind every one of our steps!

Slogans work great, the serenity prayer can work so well, program is key...UNTIL YOU GET PUNCHED IN THE FACE! LOL. Like they say -- everyone has a plan...until they punched in the face!!!

It was when I was going through this that I turned to my sponsor and said what do I need to do...and he said WE need to get to work. I did the above. It worked for me. I continued my life with the alcoholic, I lived with the alcoholic, and continued to be married...and I was healthy. I on occasion got angry, but that was for a moment in time. I took no action based upon my anger. I didn't act out or vent. I didn't lash out. Getting angry, for a moment, was a slip. It was brief. Why? Because I was NOT an angry person!!!

Fedora, I know what you are facing and feeling is not easy...but it can be made to be easier. For me, when I actually did the work...it did become easy. All the best!!!

Bettertomorrow · Senior Member

Hi Fedora and hugs to you. I can really empathise with your situation - lockdown and having an active alcoholic in the house is an experience I share.

I am only 3 years in Alanon and still feel like a relative beginner in many regards - but am making progress and for that I am grateful. I remember reading somewhere (it was probably either Dilemna of an alcoholic marriage or one of the Al Anon podcasts) of members who shared their experience of kneading bread and imagining it was her AHs face or another member who took up vigorous digging and getting out her anger that way and I subsequently bought a boxing bag which has really helped me physically dispel negative feelings whatever their cause.

I personally feel it is important to acknowledge my feelings. I 'know' at a logical level that it is not helpful to feel anger and resentment towards my AH, but if I have the feeling it is not helpful for me to pretend I don't have it and detachment isn't always easy in that moment. What has helped me is accepting my feeling and then drilling down a bit into exactly what I am angry about. If it's my husband - what exactly did he say or do (or not do) etc. Invariably I come back to being angry with the loss of what we used to have / his 'inability' to stop drinking etc and I can then more calmly realise that I am hi-jacking myself as I am angry at something I can't change and reminding myself that no-one else can make me feel anything, but I am doing it to myself. Roundabout way I know, but it helps me and I can then expend more energy on what I can change.

Over time I have personally made the decision that this is not the life I wish to live (nor for my children). I fully respect and admire others who have chosen to stay with their alcoholic partners, but for me living with an active A is not making me fully happy. I do feel happiness and contentment at times and when AH is drinking, but this is mainly when I have detached and lived my own life - going out to the cinema, walking, reading, time with the children etc. For me personally this is not what I want from a life partner and I am taking the steps to live on my own and leaving my AH to live his own life. I also agonised over the financial costs involved after seeing a solicitor, but I also looked at the emotional costs of staying which helped my personal decision. Lockdown put paid to my plan B so for the moment I am living each day as it comes and trying hard to keep going with zoom Alanon meetings and phone calls with my sponsor.

Wishing you all the best. Joanne x

2HP · Senior Member

Reading through this thread, I was reminded of the day I did become violent. it has been many years ago now and I had forgotten

It was after a night we spent with the neighbors. an event I agreed to attend after my AH and I agreed that his drinking had become excessive. He said that he would cut back.

But at the neighborhood party, he did NOT cut back, he did his usual and I was so embarrassed again by his insults toward the neighbors, triggering fear (terror) in me once again.

I could barely sleep that night... smelling him... listening to his issues in the bathroom... the loud snoring...

When he finally woke in the morning, he acted like all was peachy, like he was waking up from a terrific night. I wanted to have another talk. I pointed out that he went back on his word. I felt infuriated by him crossing his arms... smiling... so smug... rolling his eyes... very condescending... "I'm not the one with the problem, I'm pretty sure it's you"

This was not going the way it went the last time, when he had agreed... when I felt we had this thing under control.

I became livid. I marched out of the room, down the hallway where I saw his golf clubs and I took out the driver. For some reason, he had followed me so I took a few steps toward HIM, holding up the club as though I intended to strike him.

He kept saying," put it down... put it down..." I did but then picked up his shoe and threw it at him...

then I abruptly turned into the kitchen where I began throwing things everywhere.

after the energy in me was exhausted, he just stood there and said, "wow. you're a mess."

In the days that followed, I knew he was right... the kitchen window and wall now had to be repaired from my complete loss of self-control.

and then it hit me. I had become someone I did not want to be.

This, for me, was key. I was at my lowest bottom and there was only one way to go. I put down the microscope (observing him) and picked up the mirror, as they say. to watch myself constantly reacting... and being controlled by his alcoholism...

Picking up the mirror, I saw myself deeply suffering, I had completely lost my way focusing on him and everything outside of me. basically nobody was home for me and my dreams anymore. I just kept holding onto my expectations of him. The expectation that he should do better, he should change, he should see, he should wake up, he should be more reasonable...

He was driving me crazy, but I kept handing him the keys... with my expectations.

it is an insane thought to believe that an alcoholic should not be acting like an alcoholic, is it not? that expectation led to tremendous anger in me.

I finally admitted I was powerless powerless powerless over alcohol. my life had become unmanageable.

that was my perfect starting point that launched a willingness in me to change.

Just want to make sure you're okay today. and that you KNOW you are not alone.

-- Edited by 2HP on Wednesday 29th of April 2020 12:15:20 PM

Maresie888 · ~*Service Worker*~

Well I have certainly been there with the anger. Then I stsrted working the program Detaching is a huge art Detaching means being willing to let go. Detaching takes time I can understand and empathize the fierce disappointment in those who become addicted. I also understand how hard it is to face surviving without them Recently I have had to move with no help from anyone. Usually I have someone to helo.me. i.do not have that much stuff. I live in a studio. Yet this move has felt insurmountable to.me There was a certain comfort for me in being around someone who.was dysfunctional. At least I had #someone$ When I.got to the point of feeling that I.had had #enough# it was a great loss. Al.anon had many tools that really heloed ne to move to.a point beyond the anger. One of them.was the plan b. What would I.need to leave. What would I.need to move on. I.spent months looking at that. Leaving was extremely oainful. Staying was impossibke. In fact I am in a form of a plan b right now because I.feel.I.have to leave the area I live in. Al anon can indeed help you. One way of course is being around people who kniw exactly where you are coming from. Indeed we do. In many ways this room has bern a hone fir me for a long time. I can be open about my struggle. I do struggle daily. Maresie

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.