The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
In our meeting closing a part of it reads: Talk to each other, reason things out with someone else, but let there be no gossip or criticism of one another. Instead, let the understanding, love and peace of the program grow in you one day at a time.
Here is my question-- How would you handle the Talk to each other, reason things out with someone else ?
Say there is a group that is working together -a guru (know it all) dominating clique (that are rather bold, loud and domineering) How does one talk to another, reason in this situation? How would you?
I would like to know if this is even a possibility. Any and all experience, strength and hope on this line of the closing -or the closing as a whole would be greatly appreciated
You pose an interesting question. I don't have the answer sorry. However, would it help to put it this way: what would you do if this was a work sitaution and you were in a group that had to solve a problem and get it done? Perhaps that will help you. I'll be interested to see the answers that come.
Live strong, Karilynn
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
To me this part of the closing is a suggestion for us between meetings to run our thoughts by a third party before taking action, in hopes of getting a clearer view of our own situation and avoiding avoidable mistakes, slips and pitfalls by shining someone else's light in our blind spots; it is a reinforcement of the notion that we are not alone with our problems. The closing does not specify who that "someone else" should be, and leaves that to us and to our sometimes newly discovered freedom of choice to determine. Other parts of our meeting opening and closing discourage gossip and dominance, and remind us to keep an open mind; our 12 Traditions remind us that our common welfare is what comes first, and our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern. All of these things are equally important and well worth remembering.
First, as we are always taught to do in Al-Anon, I suggest you examine your own motives and attitudes toward this situation and group dynamic as honestly as you can. For example, are you motivated by a desire to help yourself and others in this, or are you more interested in swaying someone else to your way of thinking? Are you listening to the perspectives of the group or the "guru" and actually considering them, or are you awaiting your next opportunity to share your own thoughts? Are you truly placing the principles being discussed above the personalities involved? If your look at this honestly and find that the problem is not with you...
Every group has some members that consider themselves or are considered by others to be wise and knowledgeable. In my experience, sometimes they are and sometimes they may not be. Two good questions to ask yourself in your situation are "Is my attitude toward this dialogue or the people participating in it helping myself and these others? Is this dialogue I am engaging in helping me in my program of recovery or in my personal situation? " If the answer to either of these questions is no, remember that you do have the option to open a dialogue with "someone else" that may be more helpful.
Just because one person believes themselves to be the authority on a topic or in general, or even if a group recognizes them as an authority because of their time in the program or for some other reason, if you examine their perspectives honestly and honestly find they are not applicable to what you are going through, that means nothing except that you need to keep seeking until you find the soul who can provide the experience, strength and hope you need. In my experience, this is just as likely to come in conversation with someone with less time in the program or less recognized by the group as it is from a guru! Remember: "Keep an open mind, and you will find help," and "Take what you like and leave the rest." Do not feel that you have to reason with anyone until everyone agrees even if that is the impression you are getting from the others in the group-- a healthy and 12-Tradition based Al-Anon program allows us to "agree to disagree" and frees us from the need to argue or "reason" indefinitely with anyone, about anything.
Only one stone in the river has to move for the course of the water to change. Just by practicing a solid program yourself and adhering individually to the spirit of the steps and traditions, you can influence your group toward positive change and not waste any of your own precious recovery time in the process.
In one of the recent Forum magazines, there is an interesting article about a 'toxic' face to face group. I've got the key this week, I'll try to get down to the meeting place and find it for you. The person in that instance finally just found another group. I think that would usually be the alanon answer - if the style of a particular meeting does not foster healing for you, stay away. However, the reality is that sometimes we don't have any choice; I know if my home meetings were not good, I'd be in trouble, as the nearest other meeting is about 80 km away. Not something you want to do too often on winter highways!
Maybe you could keep the "take what you like" aspect of alanon firmly in mind at these meetings. You have the right to share what you need to share, whether or not others like it, and to take from them only that which helps your healing. Again, not a perfect solution, I know. The best meetings are those in which you feel truly understood and loved by the others there. But, one thing alanon teaches us - deal with what IS , not with what should be.
Tea, At first I asked myself if I was qualified to answer you on this.
But I remember some years ago in another state I was going to two different f2f mtgs so that I could get in two meetings a week for myself. I was a newbie, and also wanted to get different views. The meeting that wasn't my original home group, turned out to be, after a long trial period for me, very uncomfortable. ( I attended and participated in alanon for 4 years solid.)
There were a few others I talked with to ask if I was not getting it , or was I paranoid. They agreed with me that it was difficult. The quiet ones hardly got any respect when they spoke. The two or three gurus ran everything, would not listen to any suggestions, never got personal with the rest of us.
I could see two solutions for self. I tried both. I closed my mouth totally except when asked to read. I talked with others away from the group after the meeting. It was a church basement , and there were sofas around and stuff, so had space to hang out with others afterward. I received some help that way, but all in all remained uncomfortable.
So, I quit that group.
However, one time a member of that group came to one of the meetings of the group I called my home group, and she said, You call this an alanon meeting? I am not impressed. She left. I never did figure out the problem with that because all of our meetings were according to alanon "code" and it was a caring group of people. We stuck to alanon literature, had business meetings, everything.
I could only decide the "visitor" must have had a personality conflict with someone. Not my business.
Also, my home group did have a sense of humor, and the other one never did. So maybe that was a difference too.
So , all I know to say is to give my experience, and hope you can make inroads with your situation, but I wouldn't beat myself up about it, as I myself did do.
Tea can you take it out in htpotheticals from f2f to here or vice versa? I woud think it would depend on what you need to take out with you and the intent if you stayed within the same group, once again hypothetical, but that would be hard in the same group. I know you r struggling in f2f. What does your sponsor say, you can talk to one person!
Good Luck, Josey
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Julianne - It's best to move on. You cannot look back in anger in life. It's too short
I believe Guru is a term from this site and not an alanon term referring to how many posts/replies a person has made. I never did care for the term myself since I believe in alanon we are all equals.
I do however have personal experience in the saying you quoted. It all goes back to the 3 Cs to me. When I have tried to work out things with people, some have refused to talk at all. When I have tried to make amends, some have refused to let me do that or even answer me. Also, some feel a need to lecture back when amends are made which I find quite interesting. Amends are about us anyway and we have no control over others. I have found it is best to use my energy on working my program and working on me. Alanon is a program filled with all kinds of personalities and people. I really agree with what Emmie put and think she hit the nail on the head. cdb
Not trying to make amends. I have not participated in this, IF I had reacted to this groups actions, then I would have played a part. When I spoke to an Information Service Rep (ISR) in regards to the group she knew of them and yes the term guru is in my dictionary, not inclusive to this site. Making amends is for us not for another person. I have no amends to make w/ this clique. However, I do have concerns for how one is treated. Again the post was about the Al-Anon closing.
The part of the closign I wish to speak abotu is "no gossip or criticism of one another.". A few years ago I was attending a large meeting on Tuesday nights. They had 25 to 30 every week. One lady who had been coiming abtu 10 years at the time had signed up to chair the emeting. She was runnning late. The GR of the group made the comment..if she didn't want to chair a meeting she shoudl not have signed up...or should have at least made an effort to be on time. My freind got there in time and her topic was "gossip & criticism". After the meeting somebody told her what was said about her. She totally dropped out of AlAnon meetings after that.
So what I'm trying to say is..sometimes personalities get in the way of recovery. People who know it all often step on toes and hurt others. I found me another group, too. (but at least I kept going back) So this group needs to take a group inventory and somebody bring it up. After that, the "guru" can change or find a new group. (unless the group for some reason thinks what she did was following the traditions....our leaders are but trusted servants...etc)
In that case, one bad apple has already spoiled the whole bushel.
You asked for experience and so I replied. Clarification is an important thing when communicating, especially online. I feel I did deal with the closing of "let the peace of the program grow in YOU one day at a time." I have always found the word "clique" to be a very strong word and maybe one person's perception in my experience. Even though I have had my own set of hurts and hardships in a program, the key word still seems to be "grow in YOU". That is where making amends comes in context and yes I did say they are about us. When a person has a strong reaction to something it sometimes has to do with themselves and that is where putting the focus back on us is invaluable. I have learned this through my counseling over the years too. Changing our perceptions such as not seeing a group as a "clique" but rather people struggling and just having different personalities and making amends with ourselves for how we mispercieve things in my experience has drawn me back to the "let the peace of the program grow in YOU" part. Just sharing my experience. I have also had to deal with this in my church in realation to our pastor's having personal conflicts etc., so it also happens outside alanon. Take what you want and leave the rest. cdb (((((tea))))
I don't have the answer sorry. However, would it help to put it this way: what would you do if this was a work sitaution and you were in a group that had to solve a problem and get it done? Perhaps that will help you. I'll be interested to see the answers that come.