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I'm Jenny and I'm new here - but have already felt so inspired and supported by your stories. Thank you.
I've been at this recovery thing awhile. I'm married to an addict who has had a recent relapse after several years of being clean...however, I see now that he's what you might call a dry drunk. I am saddened that I didn't catch on sooner - but am happy to be here now.
My question is about this behavior that comes up when we argue about something. Recently this behavior appeared where the A will grandstand, expound upon, defend, point his pointy little finger in the air vehemently and generally blather on while I am ( literally ) in the bed, back turned, pillow over ears position.
Now - I in no way want to sound as if this is an excellent and otherwise healthy way to manage the blathering "JADE"-er - it just hit me the other night, that I don't know what verbiage to use to STOP the verbal vomit. I think I fear further triggering and outbursts and that the kids will wake up. So, the head in sand a** in air position is one I take on quickly. OR if there are no children present - a button gets pushed and I begin to participate in the blathering and then feel like a failure.
Right?! I think I'm overthinking it and shutting down. A clear, simply stated - "I hear you and will consider that" could totally disarm the whole spiral!
"you may be right" or "you may be right, let me think on it and get back to you"
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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
Kinda seems like he needs a good friend, buddy someone he can chat, vent to, run ideas by. Something other than cornering you and listening to himself talk. Or maybe a few rounds of basketball or a good run to wear himself out.
Seems like you know what to do to keep him from coming unglued (or yourself). But this has got to be frustrating for you.
You sound like a smart person and I bet you have the answers but are looking for opinions to see if you are on the right track. I have faith you will make some good choices after learning the alanon steps and move forward. linsc
"Call your sponsor, I can't help you (or I won't help you)" sends him back toward his recovery. Leaving his space and telling him "not now...maybe later" restates your own self control which you are responsible for. For me learning how to make the statement..."I am not able to help you or I don't want to discuss it" was best because I heard myself saying what my head and heart were thinking...I therefore was following thru with detachment. Keep listening for more tools. For me nothing sucks more than a mind and mood altered ego thinking they make sense. (((((hugs)))))
I hope he does have a program and a sponsor...I'm glad you have your program. I agree with Jerry about the "call your sponsor" thing....though there's a way to slip that in without sounding like "I don't want to hear it." All the other suggestions are good too. Even "Honey...I know you get really riled up making your points but I got it...no need."
Thanks everyone. LinSC - yes! This man has isolated in his disease so long that he's got virtually no-one in his life. It's just been me and he loves to hear himself talk! LOL
Jerry and Pinkchip- He DOES have his 30 days after this relapse and DOES have a sponsor now. This time, the sponsor seems to be a good fit for his personality and is really consistent. I like all the ways you've phrased good boundary setting. I will just keep focusing on the program and the tools and try to hang in there ODAT until I understand better what our future holds.
I'm such a huge fan of "you might be right" said sincerely.
You didn't say they were right and you were wrong... you just gave the other person an opportunity to feel heard, save a little face.. and hopefully move on without hard feelings ...
some times my ex was actually "right" in part about some of the things he said about me, and he was on so wrong and totally projecting his issues on me many times too... thus the words "might be" .
I also like "breathe" it helps me calm down a bit sometimes... as I'm not a "calm" kind of gal usually.
You have gotten some great ESH here, i can't add anything, except that just the fact that you are asking this question is great. You have recognized that your life has become unmanageable, and you are trying to find out what YOU can do about it by exercising only the things that YOU have control over!
Keep coming back and sharing with use, you are learning things from us, and we are learning through you!
Although he has isolated himself, he still has passions, but may not know what they are! Maybe a "man cave" might help. Mean time keep working the Al-anon steps and change yourself and your responses and when you change he will change. linsc
Oh my gosh Im not quite sure what JADE stands I thought for sure that my AH was the only one on the planet that does that! When we dont see eye to eye on something and I dont back down it turns into an argument which then leads to the nonstop "word vomit" from him that can literally last for hours on end...it was one of these episodes laced with all kind of profanities, door slamming and foot stomping through the house for 3.5 hours straight on a school night when the kids were trying to sleep which sent me right over the edge. I told my daughter that if she could make it through that night that I promised that we were leaving ....two weeks later I took the kids,dogs, birds and fish and left!
There are many things about his behavior when he drinks that I cant stand but Ive found this particular habit is simply unbearable and I usually wind up losing my temper over it ....which then makes me a participant to the madness and I hate it ...I always feel like crap afterwards becuz I feel like he won again. Whats worse is that when he does it its 50% repetitive talk and 50% pure rambling on and on about varied topics that he's pissed about, none of which really tie into each other! I was also told its called "drunk logging" he.will literally make the same exact statement (verbatim) 3 -4 times in a row before he will move on to another thought...reminds me of the goldfish theory...his attention span only lasts 3 sec's before he loses his thought, then he's compelled to repeat himself again! LOL. Can u imagine what its like when we're in public and he does this! Not nessesarily the angry ragefull part but the 'conversation looping' that he does is downright annoying to even bystanders! I know its not very "compassionate" of me to make light of it as its his disease that compelles him to do this but I cant help it. Its the only thing I can do to keep from crying sometimes!
This is why I love coming to these boards because the more I read others stories the less insane and isolated I feel...now I'm wondering how many others out there have the issue of nocturnal urination with sleepwalking...if he wasnt lifting couch pillows to take a whiz, he was walking into closets and ruining clothes ...even walked right out the house and to the yard to do it...all while sleep!
I'm sorry didnt mean to highjack your post with all of this but your topic brought back so many dysfunctional memories that I've tried unsuccessfully to let go of!
hopeful it was and is evidence like yours and others that enforces in and for me that alcohol is a mind and mood altering chemical. When I got that and learned it my relationship with my alcoholic/addict wife changed 180 degrees. I wasn't dealing with a normal or rational human being we were not even on the same planet so I stopped engaging and would leave to find myself in a meeting and with Al-Anon family members who knew and knew that they knew we were all in dysfunction even while we attempted to have some kind of relationship with the alcoholics and addicts we were in relationship with. It became necessary and not an option to detach on all levels...mind, body, spirit and emotions. I wasn't equipped or experienced to handle the insanity so I stopped. Better for me to be with sane and sober and serene people which is where my HP desires that I be. (((((hugs)))))
You have NOT hijacked. I understand that these share's can bring on a story and a sympathy and a trigger and more empathy and so on. I appreciate your share and support. Thank you! :)
Thank you Jerry - yes, this illustration is a great reminder of the illness /insanity situation how addiction marches itself right into our lives.
I wonder about detachment love tonight. I feel confused about where the line in the sand is regarding healthy boundaries and a physical and emotional and spiritual separation of self from the addict and how does that compare to "withholding sex /love" as manipulation.
I apologize if I've diverted this conversation to a place that is off limits or uncomfortable. I just don't know what to do with my AH....I don't know where to draw the line between love and sexual intimacy and I feel pretty confused tonight. I've been in recovery awhile and I think this is the very first time I've had the courage to broach this subject....(sigh)
This work is hard, and I know it is worth it.....Just so confused. Sorry.
What to do about an AH who is in my home, and in my physical bed tonight and how do I learn how to tease out the layers of addiction, true love, marriage vows, commitment, so on and so forth? I don't know.
The somnambulant urinating and word vomit, 2 things I really, really do not miss about my A (and there really are things that I miss,too). Jenny, I'm glad you've found ways to diffuse the ranting. I know that even when sober my A doesn't care if I am listening intently or not, in fact if he has been drinking I can literally say "OMG shut up, won't you stop, I don't care, please please stop talking" (after hours of his nonsense, when I have finally snapped) and he chooses not to hear me and continue on and on and on and on and on for hours and hours and hours, and then call his mother and repeat the whole lot again. It is to me unbearable and very much about wanting to hear his own voice with the pretence of "conversation". And most of it is gibberish that he doesn't remember and completely contradicts the next day anyway. Ugh!!! Towards the end of my time living with him I took to wearing headphones, and telling him I was having "terrible anxiety" (well I was!) and that I needed to listen to relaxation tracks to help calm me. Alternately I said I was listening to university lectures. Either way, it blocked out the ranting and he desisted for the most part. Apparently he preffered me begging him to shut up to me not being able to hear him. Can't say I understand but I do know it is beyond tolerable!!!
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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
I wrote that before seeing your last question. I think, for me, that line became clear when I stopped considering how my actions might affect or not affect his actions and instead ONLY asked myself how I felt about whatever action I was taking. Ergo, do I feel like sex/intimacy, will it make me feel happy now and afterwards? If so, then great, if not, then no. No trying to second guess what "message" this might send to him, because we usually get that wrong anyway. He might have used it against me later but then, he is able to twist any action I take and turn it into ammunition so it doesn't really matter what message" I send. Just, what do I want/need right now, how do I achieve it in a reasonably kind and considerate way? That worked for me and to be honest when I stopped really caring what message I sent or how he might percieve my actions and just did what I knew to be best for me, he did become for the most part much easier to get along with. I think the A's we love have an inherent knowledge of how much time we spend being twisted up trying to interpret and manipulate their behaviour and they take pleasure in being so important. When we place our own wants and needs front and center then things start to look a LOT better.
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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
Thanks missmeliss - I hadn't realized until now that I don't ever ask myself "will this make me happy", "is this what I want"? I'm forever calculating the inherent risk of any given event with my AH - whether that be a simple conversation or marital obligation. I am so saddened that it's turned into such a mess. The waves of grief are pretty high today.
Jenny, when I began this journey the grief was absolutely overwhelming. Have you read "Getting them sober" by Toby Rice Drews? I think you might find it helpful, as I did.
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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
Hi - I haven't read any literature in a long time. We had a nice long run of sobriety and both got lazy and stopped going to meetings and slipped back into old comfortable habits. I was going to get on the online bookstore and make several purchases. I will add these to the list. Thanks ladies...Any other "must have" literature for someone in my situation ( a relapser who's rusty?) are appreciated.
DavidG.
