Treatment VS AA meets/Counsellor - Al-Anon Family Group

serenity47 · ~*Service Worker*~

Treatment VS AA meets/Counsellor

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

My son was accepted into a private hospital that is well known in our area and very good. He called me from it happy that he was in what felt like heaven to him. I was so happy for him. Then, one day later, he was out of there. There was a rule of no smoking in the dormitory. He did anyway. That was the end of that opportunity for him. I talked with a recovering A who was also a licensed substance abuse counselor for 30 years. I was angry at the facility for bouncing him rather than sanctioning him in some other way. She told me based on her own experience, he wasn't ready and found a way to get himself put out of the program. He was also in a private rehab with attached living quarters following graduation. He used there and was also bounced from the program. In both cases, it was my son who chose to avoid recovery when the settings he was in could have been a great help to him. He did the same with outpatient programs and AA.

So, this leads me to a tentative conclusion: Sometimes, a program is as helpful to a patient as the patient wants it to be. We can't force our loved ones to pursue recovery. I don't think inpatient clinics can either. Outpatient therapy and AA is also going to be as helpful to the person with this disease as inpatient if the person needing treatment doesn't apply what they learn or accept the help they are offered.

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

Hey Serenity

My take??? based on two alcoholic brothers, one a drug addict as well and i am talking big time using.....he is the one i will illustrate

many many times he has gone into seizure, had car wrecks, gotten into trouble with the law, and ended up in rehab places as you and grateful describe......he screwed up each time...got busted for using....curfew violations, coming in high, you name it....he did not want to surrender to any program and do the work.....

he is now at a half way house, loosely run b/c he is using his downers and by night time he can't even hardly function, but they keep him i guess b/c he is , when able, a very good cook in the kitchen....he wears clothing for days b4 washing it , he is a total mess...

grateful said it right....if they aren't ready or don't want the program, NOTHING or NO PLACE is gonna help them b/c they have to want to help themselves.....

requirement for a successful recovery is #1, they have to totally surrender to the program #2, be brutally honest, open, willing to do whatever they must do to stay clean or sober.....a lot of them do manage to to the steps 1,2,3 they know they are powerless and they know they have a higher power, but they cannot bring themselves to be brutally honest re: their shortcomings and what in their past drove them to take this path , b/c honesty and addiction don't mix unless the addict really does do a complete surrender....step 4 is their "stop point" as a rule...they may get into it a bit, but they can't be honest w/themselves or their maker or anyone else for that matter...it is always someone elses fault....always the "devil made me do it" always rationalizing, and justifying their behaviour..... so if they can't get past step 4 they for sure wont' fess up to anyone in step 5, step 6 be ready to evict the negative character traits and step 7 ASK for these traits to be taken, or cast these burdens sincerely on their higher power as they understand....thus no steps 8,9,10,11,12

its a low percentage of them that get through all the steps and KEEP working them for life in an honest, workman like manner

they have to WANT redemption to get it.....they have to own ALL of their wrongs and so many of them cannot

i don't care if they are locked up in a cell 24/7 with no access to drugs/alcohol, their MINDS will still be an alcoholic with all the "isms" that a wet drunk would be.....

so sorry about your daughter....the less you hold her up , over the abyss, the better the chances you have of her getting straight.....we CANT help them.....we help them?? we sabotage their learning the hard lessons they need to experience in order to be forced into recovery....its too bad that some, if not most, need to be forced into recovery....must be denial...thats all i can figure....

and they sure know how to play their enablers beautifully...they know how to work their loved ones....they can play them like a Stradivarius fiddle.....oh yea, they know all the cons and tricks to get their way......loving them, but cutting them off of all financial and covering up for them help , NOT doing their life jobs but leaving them to their own devices...backing off and letting them learn the hard way is the only hope of forcing them into crying out for help and meaning it...THEN, IF they get into AA, the "hands off" policy must continue...they gotta know that if they relapse??? its on them, they must pay for their own wrongs.........

serenity47 · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you Neshema and Grateful

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Prayers Serenity I understand that there are many in AA who never went to rehab. I believe that it works if the person is ready I know I paid for several rehabs for my son and each time, within one week after he returned, he was back drinking a quart of Jack a day.
Please keep attending alanon for yourself.

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

HI,

Agree with the above. If A isn't ready, A isn't ready. Send him to a house of recovery, and he will either sit and ignore it and enoy the food, or use again to get the hell out so that he can start using again.

Having said that, I think there are defeinitely differences between inpatient centers. My wife went to two different ones, and here are some of the differences, and quite possibly why she stayed sober after the second one

Center A: Suggested/strongly encouraged family education. I went to one session, got something out of it, but not a big appreciation for the big picture.

Center B: Required family education to see patient. I had to go to 4 weeks of family education to see my wife. And the counselor seemed more engaged at these, and got us engaged as well. One week he talked about how people get addicted, and the stages of it. One week they had Al Anon people come in and speak about Al Anon. I now am a grateful membe, and I attended one of these meetings as an Al Anon-er 9 months later.

Center A: Had AA meetings once a day on site.

Center B: 60 meetings offseite in 60 days. They traveled between 5 and 40 miles to go to AA meetings. They got to see the contrasts between different meetings, and why some were more effective than others

Center A: Had lots of education and lectures from AA, therpaists, psychiatrists/psychologists. Wife learned a lot about how alcoholism works, hope for new drugs, etc

Center B: Had lots of education about her. She finally came to understand emotional sobriety, and how you can be a dry drunk. Lots of other intensive work on getting to know why she drank, what her triggers are, and what she might have to do to avoid them. Like we are told here that we may have to leave our spouse to save our sanity and children, she was told she may have to leave her spouse to save her sobriety. I agree with both sides of this coin. Learned lots about what is her side of the street.

Center A: Counselor average age - late 20's to 30's. While much of the staff was As, I'm not sure all the counselors were. The one my wife had didn't really speak in recovery terms, as I look back and think about it now.

Center B: Counselor average age 40-50. All A's. Some looked older, but many had come from long histories of abuse so had lived a rough life and probably looked

Still ,there is no substitute for getting a good sponsor as well. My wife's first sponsor turned out not to be too stable, and fortunately told my wife she couldn't do it after awhile, but pity set in wife and she relapsed. Second sponsor she found while at 2nd rehab. This sponsor has been wonderful for her, and has helped guide her through some pretty rough patches.

I hope you can get to that meeting tomorrow. I know in Indiana they are predicting a good snowfall, so tomorrow is dodgy traveling. Stay safe, if you can't make it to the meeting come back here!

Kenny

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

I dont know the answer to your question serenity. With my son, his recovery is his business, ive stopped trying to control his life. Hes a grown man. Your daughter is a grown woman. Did she ask you to help her get information? If not it might be better for her if you stay out of it, that way when she is ready she can find out what to do, its much more likely that she will succeed in recovery when its her choice and decision.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

I think if a person CAN stop for a period of a week or two without needing inpatient rehab, then rehab is probably a total waste of money. Rehab, in my opinion, (and I worked at one for a long time, am also an Alcoholic in recovery), is for people that cannot even string a week sober together without a relapse. Aside from that, AA and NA are where the real recovery is at. Rehab may be necessary for alcoholics and addicts that have a really harsh detox and medical complications as well due to their use. I don't know many heroin users that successfully got sober without detox and rehab. Rehab may also be useful for folks that have drank or drugged themselves out of house and home.

I never went to rehab. I sweated out about a week of harsh detox but was going to a meeting a day (or multiple meetings) of AA by the 3rd day sober. I had a sponsor by day 6. I needed outside help from a therapist and I'd had therapy before many times in life, but the missing piece for me was getting sober in AA.

There were institutions and "hospitals" for alcoholics and drug addicts prior to AA... They didn't have much efficacy and that is why AA has been so successful. AA is like a lifestyle change that supports sobriety. Rehab is a month long "treatment." The difference is like a person going on a diet using an expensive new fad diet versus a person that goes on a diet through lifestyle changes such a healthy eating, exercise, and building new healthy habits. The person who has the lifestyle change is more likely going to keep that weight off.

So in my view, rehab gives people a leg up and enough clarity of mind so that they can have a shot at sobriety. When I discharged my clients from rehab, I ALWAYS told them that they would not stay sober if they didn't attend meetings consistently and they would probably need to go to one daily for at least a year or two before letting up and then maybe going to at least 3 a week after a year or two sober. I went to about 7 meetings a week until I had a year and a half sober. AA works, but it only works in strong doses and with a full surrender. Most everyone will emerge from rehab with 30 days clean and sober, but again...rehab isn't real living so much.

And yes, I have seen people stop drinking/drugging "on their own" without seeming to be "dry." I've seen that maybe 3 or 4 times in my life. I have seen thousands of folks get sober in AA. When I was active and resistant to AA, I would choose to focus on those 3 or 4 people that got sober on their own rather than the thousands that utilized AA. I didn't want to have to do the work and I didn't want to surrender to what the thousands of people did in AA. I wanted to just quit. One time I did quit on my own for 4 months but I couldn't stay stopped.

My guess is that if I'd drank another 2 or 3 years (provided I didn't die), I would have needed rehab because I would have had harsh DTs and I would have progressed to round the clock drinking. So...rehab is not bad. It is not an "either or" but it is absolutely no substitute for AA/NA/Celebrate Recovery/Smart Recovery...Rehab serves a function which is to safely get the person to 30 days sober, to stabilize their mood somewhat and to get them through the most challenging of medical detox issues so that they may then start listening and really work a LASTING PROGRAM of recovery in the rooms.

This has been my personal and professional experience.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

And elcee made a good point - I wouldn't spend a dime on a rehab for anyone unless they seemed absolutely compliant and ready to surrender. It is tricky though. It is far easier to stay out of your child's recovery when they have somewhere to live and it's more clear that this is just the way they choose to conduct their life at the moment. It's harder when you kid is hooked on heroin, jamming needles all over their body, maybe has hepatitis and a ton of abscesses and medical complications and they are knocking at death's door at the age of 22. From my experience, THAT was a more typical rehab client sadly and their parents were so desperate for their kids to not die, they would take any utterance of "help" and run with it. 3 of those clients I had are dead now and they never reached age 25....and it's only been 1 year since I stopped working at that rehab. For them, rehab was keeping them alive longer. So sad. It was almost like they needed to live in rehab. Alcoholics usually didn't present as being that close to death until their 30s and 40s (and 50s sometimes). I don't have all the answers. It is a very cunning, baffling, and powerful disease.

I absolutely will pray for your daughter and the rest of your family.

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

I agree whole heartedly with pink and ec .. Spending money on treatment it's a waste unless the addict is very very serious. I'm sharing someone else's experience that I heard at a speaker meeting. This ra who has 25+ years sober .. Was a year into 'Rehab followed by 12 months into a psych ward/Alanon treatment center. I have no idea who paid ra was in their 30s though at the time. They were not prepared for the emotional sobriety at all .. There is no one size fits all when it comes to an addict getting sober and choosing to stay sober. First drink is always a choice in my humble opinion. After that the compulsion takes over. I got reminded at my meeting the only person I have power over is me and my choices. I am powerless over other people places and things. For me my recovery includes private counseling as I need the additional support. If I had the luxury of going to Alanon treatment I would in a heartbeat. It's a crazy thing this cunning baffling disease. Hugs s ;)

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