The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
it talked about the more chances that I gave someone, the less respect they would start to have for me.....they start totally disregarding my boundaries and my standards b/c they know I will always give another chance
they become unafraid of losing me, they devalue me b/c no matter what I wouldn't walk away
they actually get comfortable with depending on my forgiveness
the lesson?? Don't let anyone get comfortable w/disrespecting me
In early recovery I came in as one of the above scenarios.....then my pendulum swung wildly to the opposite side......NO 2nd chances no matter what.....I ended countless relationships....one slip and I was GONE....no coming back
now?? i agree with the above, however there are, to me, mitigating circumstances.....FIRST are they sorry?? truly sorry?? How many times have they offended???? was the offense just a human error?? a glitch that most likely will never happen again??? has the person affected change in their behaviour so as to not repeat??? are those changes sustained and steady???? Does the person really want to work towards being more healthy??? AND is a reconcile or 2nd chance in MY best interest??? OR is it just over????
I consider those factors b4 i end a relationship or reconcile an estranged relationship....AND i stand to the boundaries I set in place if they want to STAY in my life.......Nothing is carved in stone....I can change my mind, later on, if it means my best emotional health !!!!
JUST saying
-- Edited by neshema2 on Saturday 31st of January 2015 05:25:38 PM
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Loved this share. I am a forgiving person and I do make room for people being human, but there was a time when I, too, allowed too much and swung back too hard. It was as if I was silently telling myself - okay, if they do this again - I'm out of here after 10 years of putting up with the same stuff. Then, when I made my exit - it left the other person wondering what in the world happened? It was my choice to put up with something for 5 to 10 years. Of course, they'd be confused by the big slam/bang on my part.
Having boundaries are so much better for me then building walls. Some behaviors are truly unacceptable to me and it behooves me and the other person to let them know what is unacceptable for me when it happens - not 5 or 10 years later - when I slam the door in their faces. How I enforce my own boundaries are up to me and I know they are always moveable with most human beings. There are only a few people I would keep myself away from permanently and generally it is only people who are truly toxic - not just to me but to others most of the time. Pathological liars, active As, drug addicts, violent or otherwise severely dangerous people are examples of the type of people I simply won't lower my boundaries to let them in. I don't want to judge them or harm them. I do want to keep myself safe in relationship to them and what they could bring into my life.
There are only a few people I would keep myself away from permanently and generally it is only people who are truly toxic - not just to me but to others most of the time. Pathological liars, active As, drug addicts, violent or otherwise severely dangerous people are examples of the type of people I simply won't lower my boundaries to let them in. I don't want to judge them or harm them. I do want to keep myself safe in relationship to them and what they could bring into my life.
************************************ ((((((((((G))))))))))) I so agree and concur with this.....SOME souls are a "slam dunk" when it comes to "Oh yea, THIS one , NO 2nd chance" and for me it is a judgement call...I make a judgement ea. time I make a decision to separate or not separate from a person.....judgement calls are good...necessary....I look at the facts....then make my judgement call to take care of me........and NEVER to lower my boundaries to let them in, amen on that one.......and the last sentence says it all...."I do want to keep myself safe in relationship to them and what they could bring into my life" AMEN!!!
to me when folks talk about "judging them" I think for me in a way, I am judging in that i am deeming them toxic....seeing that they are a danger for me, my space, etc.....but i try not to condemn them....i leave that up to karma.....but my decisions/methods of taking care of me/protecting me are out of a judgement of some kind....
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
I get that, Rosie. That your decisions/methods of taking care of and/or protecting yourself requires a judgment of some kind. You've been through enough of that kind of stuff to last 42 lifetimes. Not just one. Glad you know yourself well enough to know - I'm not going there with that person. Nope! I'm walking away - fast!!!
I get that, Rosie. That your decisions/methods of taking care of and/or protecting yourself requires a judgment of some kind. You've been through enough of that kind of stuff to last 42 lifetimes. Not just one. Glad you know yourself well enough to know - I'm not going there with that person. Nope! I'm walking away - fast!!!
yea, i got "abused/pained out" by not so much LIFE, but PEOPLE....I am willing to let proven safe ones slowly into my life, but I am careful...watching for those red flags.......ready to shut the gate and lock the lock.....at my stage in life, I just want Peace!!! Safety!!! Joy!!!! and now that I know me enough, I know what I will accept/not accept and its non negotiable re: the ones who are obviously toxic, like the ones you listed!!! Some folks are just not negotiable....Not for me!!!! I can put up w/human shortcomings, heaven knows I have enough shortcomings to stock the largest Sam's club in the country....i am talking about the stuff that is not a shortcoming but just out of darkness, or illness to the point where they are a danger in that sense....
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
I worry about this too Neshema.
I just forgive everyone and let them start over again and again and again.
I don't know what it is about me, I just can't hold on to anger. I don't care enough about what people do "wrong". They just do stuff because they are on their own journeys. Maybe they are A-holes for a little while and then they come back or they don't. It is their own personal journey.
I think, if I can be really bold and tell you what I think...it isn't about "teaching them a lesson".
It is just about you.
Are you comfortable with who you are?
Are you OK with the fact that you are a loving and forgiving person who values people even when they are hurtful? Are you cool with the fact that you are kind and appreciative and forgiving of people?
Do you need to analyse their mindset and decide if they are truly sorry?
Trying to decide if someone is truly sorry to me is beyond my expertise.
I am just who I am. I really like people and I like to see the best parts of them and forgive their transgressions. I don't think that makes me horribly flawed, I think it just means I need to learn to not be a patsy. That doesn't mean learning to analyse everyone and know their motives, it just means knowing my own boundaries and protecting myself from things that harm me and leaving everyone else to their own journey. If they are being horrible, it probably isn't about me.
Does this make any sense?
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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
Do you need to analyse their mindset and decide if they are truly sorry? Trying to decide if someone is truly sorry to me is beyond my expertise. I am just who I am. I really like people and I like to see the best parts of them and forgive their transgressions. I don't think that makes me horribly flawed, I think it just means I need to learn to not be a patsy. That doesn't mean learning to analyse everyone and know their motives, it just means knowing my own boundaries and protecting myself from things that harm me and leaving everyone else to their own journey. If they are being horrible, it probably isn't about me. Does this make any sense?
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INTERESTING , Melly......i don't think i analyze....i think, like if i see a house on fire and a guy with a match and can of gasoline, I don't have to analyze, Its kinda "there" the facts or evidence.....noo I am not qualified to analyze another...I just call things the way I see them in how it relates to me......
as to their remouse...I always say....what do i look at??? their actions or their words??? what the DO or what they SAY???? i base a lot of my decisions in self care on that.......
I don't think u are flawed at all, liking people...I was never a "people" person....I mean i am not an anti social, but just not the outgoing, people person..I am more reserved...stand back and observe.....and No, I don't think I am qualified to analyze anyone and their motives either unless it is a smoking gun obvious thing.....and i agree,...Knowing my own boundaries and protecting myself from things that harm me....i do live and let live...even if it means..."ok, live and let live" and let them live AWAY from me as we are not on the same page........and yea, you made sense....I hope this post clarifies some of what I said........NICE share, Mel.....so glad you are in your new flat....the "hyper alertness" will go away once he has been gone for a while and you build your safety around you......PTSD does not have to last a life time...it can be managed at the very least....
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Interesting post and there seems to be a common thread of forgiving over and over again. I find it almost impossible to hold a grudge but I do not view it as a negative thing all the time. I look at forgiveness as being more for me then for them because if I stay mad then it continues to hurt me. If I can let it go and just move on with my life and chalk it up to the human experience we all share then it makes my life more peaceful. Of course I have a much easier time moving on with friends and distant relatives vs my immediate family. Sometimes I have thought it would be nice to get mad and stay mad at my AD, but she really is not a mean person and the material things that she has taken from us really don't matter to me much. I mean of course it is wrong that she did that but somehow I keep all this empathy for her. Maybe too much which makes me vulnerable to her and she knows this. Perhaps my pendelum with her is too far the other way. I am working on it.
-- Edited by serenity47 on Saturday 31st of January 2015 10:16:25 PM
I mean of course it is wrong that she did that but somehow I keep all this empathy for her. Maybe too much which makes me vulnerable to her and she knows this. Perhaps my pendeum with her is too far the other way. I am working on it.
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Serenity....of course we have empathy, its in our nature, but empathy also means letting them learn their own lessons.....maybe if she falls hard enough, she will be forced to face herself and get into recovery for real........i am glad u see that the pendulum can be too far the other way...i have learned that tough love where you love them, encourage them, but NO help other than that is the best way.....let them reap what the sow and MAYBE it will sink in....a lot of times not and there is nothing you can do....really nothing!!!!
I unfriended my druggie brother off my facebook....he posts pictures of young girls, claiming to be their 'lover" or their "boyfriend" and i find it disgusting and revolting, the things he says on his FB........i don't believe drugs "made" him a lecher, i think they erase the inhibitions of a serious darkness that was already there......I am done with him.....I don't have to be subjected to or be around people whose behaviour sickens me.....i don't even know if i have empathy for him anymore....as this behaviour is a reminder of his wicked father......I don't wish harm on him, but I don't want anything to do with him....
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Relationships, hmmmm. It has taken me a long time to learn how and when to let go of relationships that aren't working and to be patient with those that are still messy, yet maybe workable. Knowing which ones are workable surely takes skills I am still developing. Except in my marriages, I had not been one to give many chances. Now, if I feel I have been wronged in some way, I can calmly let the other person know, and, if I am heard and I can feel the others responses are coming from their heart, I can forgive and have a do over.
People say that we should forgive and forget, but I don't know where that came from. it didn't come from the bible, like so many people say it did. To me forgiving and continuing on with a relatioinship are two different things. Forgiving is probably more for me than the other person. In fact, I feel that I must forgive even if the other person is unrepentant. To me that is one of the great lessons of Al Anon, that you can forgive an active A even when he's doing the same thing the next night.
But that doesn't mean that I would continue the relationship with an active A. That is a different story, one that all of us address differently. I chose to stay with my wife, but I don't know how much I would have been able to had she not chosen recovery when she did.
Great post neshema, for me forgiveness is for me and about me for my piece of mind. Im learning to let go of people if they are not bringing good to my life. I5s hard for me due to attachment issues but im not putting up with scraps from people, no way. I wont be lifted and laid down when it suits someone. Its tied in with my view of me. Im worth something and if someone in my life cant see my worth then tough luck for them.
