It is good you say if for you. An active alcoholic will twist things any number of unpredictable ways. I could see someone in active alcoholism thinking "Oh good. He still loves me. I didn't mess up that bad. I don't have to change" and I can also see them thinking "Oh great this speech again, I can't do anything right...might as well get drunk." Or I could see it just sinking in as positive and feeling loved despite their disease. I could see it as them thinking "I can't keep doing this to my family." I could see it being all 4 at the same time believe it or not. Such is the mind of an active alcoholic.

Thanks Breaking:

What you wrote really resonated with me: "Say what you mean and mean what you say, but don't say it mean."

And I'll tie it into another thread about being in a relationship.  Even with an A spouse, it still is a relationship that has everything else marred (or otherwise committed) people have that don't have alcoholics in them - kids, bills, aging parents, whatever.  A relationship requires effective communication.  Regardless of her "alcoholic filter," my 50% of the relationship is to communicate effectively, using tools that I've picked up through counseling.  Because, even if this marriage ends up irretrievably broken, it will make for a better me.

As I wrote, I cannot "control" how she takes what I try to say in the morning.  If I'm 100% honest, there is a small part of me that hopes *my* intended message is getting through her alcoholic self.

BUT, regardless of whether it is or isn't received by her as I intended - and I cannot control how SHE perceives or interpret things *I* say (especially due to the alcoholism) - I have to be true to me.

Oh to be sure, I'm no saint and it's DEFINITELY a work in progress.  I still get very angry (especially at night) and have called her horrible, vile names; but I hope I'm getting better.

 

RF

HI rumble,

Great share, glad you realize you are doing it for you, that should keep the expectations where they should be - nonexistent. I would encourage you to also think about what behavior is acceptable and what is not. The "Say what I mean, mean what I say, and don't say it mean" slogan that BF has outlined has helped me to be able to say things without letting my anger get the best of me. So, the review of last night is fine and, as you say, you can have little expectation from it.

But a proactive preview of what might happen tonight, and what is acceptable and what isn't, and what the consequences of unacceptable behavior is is even better. The setting of boundaries as we say. Because we have another saying here "nothing changes if nothing changes".

But that will take some thought and prayer from you while you decide what those unacceptable behaviors are, and what the consequences would be. Boundaries are set in place not to punish the other person, but to protect us, and they aren't really about the other person, they are about us.

Kenny

I think its good to say what you mean even if its for you to feel better. Realistically, its unlikely to impact her. I found words were useless, it was action that made the changes.  I also learned to not expect anything from an active alcoholic. It only leads to disappointment. Have you considered meetings?

The meetings here are good rumblefish, there is other things that might help. If you go to the alanon website there are lots and lots of leaflets like 'the dilemma of the alcoholic marriage' and 'how to help the children' also, 'the merrygoround called denial is very good' these just opened my eyes to how i was living. Good for you, if you learn and work this program you will see amazing changes first in you, then your family.

There is a program for teens called Alateens, too. Your 14 yo might benefit from the same six meetings we suggest to newcomers newly entering the program. Those meetings are usually held when AA and Al-Anon meetings are going on in the same building. Some meetings provide childcare if you'd be wondering where to take the baby. As a retired professional in a small City, I can remember being concerned that "airing" the problems in my home with others could be a problem for me in the outside world. I also knew that it was more important for me to attend meetings than to protect myself against a problem that might never come. It didn't. No one knew me. No one knew what I did. No one had any expectations of me. There were other professionals in our meetings. I knew what they did. I knew where they worked. Didn't matter. We were all affected by alcoholism and the anonymity promised in the program was always afforded each and every member. Although on-line meetings are helpful here, f2f meetings are still an option for you and for your 14 yo, too. Could be you could all go to the same location and attend your meetings separately if you have a sitter you can trust with the baby for a few hours?

-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 29th of January 2015 06:21:50 PM

Try to remember nothing you say or do can cause her to drink. In my opinion, an alcoholic is always an alcoholic whether drinking or not. It's a disease that remains a mystery to me.

Jerry:

You raise an interesting point.  

Yes, she has to "reprogram" her thinking.  Indeed, this is the "process" by which most psychologists operate - getting the patient to "re-program" his/her harmful or inappropriate thoughts - be they causing obsessive/compulsive cleaning the house, fear of flying, etc.

How many woman have you and I known who thought they needed to lose weight . . . when they were already a size 2, 4, 6, etc.?  

In some sense, it didn't matter that we'd say "honey, you're great looking.  You don't need to lose weight."  Because they've programmed themselves to believe otherwise (or been programmed at some earlier stage through events, trauma, whatever).

Even harder for the alcoholic to "re-program" himself or herself because the device that's being "re-programmed" (the brain) has been damaged.  Imagine trying to record over a cassette tape when the original recording (that you're trying to "erase") damaged the heads on the tape recorder.  In short, it's not just the "software" that's the problem, but the "hardware" too.

There is no question that re-programming is a very difficult process to go through - even when not talking about alcohol/drug addiction.  Again, it can be just as difficult for a skinny woman to reprogram herself from thinking she is fat or overweight.

In my own life, I've been there done that bought the t-shirt about my own "unhelpful thinking" (not about alcohol, drugs, etc. - I can't really relate to "addiction" in that sense).

But, isn't it possible that eternal positive re-enforcement from me - as her husband - from the *outside* makes the re-programming process for AW 1%, 0.5%,  0.25%, or 0.01% more likely to start, to succeed *if* started or "easier" to endure while it is occurring??  

Put differently, how do you know what objective reality looks like, if no one in your life is serving as a mirror to reflect that objective reality back at you?

I think the *danger* for, say, someone like me is the *expectation* side.  Believing that it will have any meaningful/causal impact on her sobriety - rather than just *possibly* a very, very small effect at the very margins.

I think it's EASY for us non-alcoholic members of the relationship to think: well there's already 3 feet of water in the basement, what difference does 3 feet, 1 inch make?

I think the answer to that depends upon where you want to focus.  If you're focusing on the damage already done - the things already underwater, then 1 inch probably doesn't make much difference.

If you're focusing on the damage that's not yet done - the things NOT already underwater, then 1 inch sometimes does make a difference.  For example, the family heirloom that was on a shelf 3 feet, 1 inch off the ground.

Either way, it's the SAME OBJECTIVE situation - it just depends on how *you* decide to think about it.

And, if it all depends on how YOU want to think about it . . . then, I think, we're talking about *my* choice - how *I* choose to be.

Which, I think, brings me back to the beginning - I say these things to her because of *ME* - how *I* want to be: loving, caring, etc.  I can't control what she does with it AFTER it leaves my mouth.

As an optimistic person who loves her, I hope it can have some small effect; as a realist, I have to recognize I have no control.

If I'm thinking in Zen Buddhist terms:  an extra 1 inch of water in the basement makes no difference . . . and makes a difference . . . both at the exact same time. 

In a relationship with an A, loving and caring is not always enough to stay in the relationship.

 BUT, choosing to remain a loving, caring person can carry-over to other existing or future relationships.  It may even "help" with this relationship down the road IF my AW ever gets sober.

RF

 

RF