How Do You Trust God When He Has Put An Alcoholic in Your Life? - Al-Anon Family Group

ohno · Senior Member

RE: How Do You Trust God When He Has Put An Alcoholic in Your Life?

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Sorry you're having such a difficult time right now. I remember those times. They're not fun.

ohno · Senior Member

Thank you. Just feel like a blob of raw nerves sometimes.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

I have had those same experiences and understand how difficult it is to process everything on a feeling level.

ohno · Senior Member

Yes. The feelings are intense! And unlike many, I do trust my feelings (my thoughts, not so much!), but the feelings are real and there for a reason.

ohno · Senior Member

I just realized, through all of this processing - so it isn't a waste of time and space - that I cannot trust myself to cope with my own feelings. I can't trust "God" to do anything (because I don't know what "God" is or what the job description is - I can't trust family - because they have betrayed me - I can't trust myself to cope with my feelings of grief, sadness, fear and anxiety. Now that I know the problem, what is the solution? I am working with a spiritual counselor and will see if she has any ideas!

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

I hope that helps you, ohno.

ohno · Senior Member

Me too. Thank you!

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

ohno wrote:
I just realized, through all of this processing - so it isn't a waste of time and space - that I cannot trust myself to cope with my own feelings. I can't trust "God" to do anything (because I don't know what "God" is or what the job description is - I can't trust family - because they have betrayed me - I can't trust myself to cope with my feelings of grief, sadness, fear and anxiety. Now that I know the problem, what is the solution? I am working with a spiritual counselor and will see if she has any ideas!

i dont' buy the "fake it till you make it" its phony to me and i hate phoniness, that said, i think if you learn to breathe.....focus on your breath only......deep inside of you lies a part of the universal power.....that sense of peace you get doing that simple meditation is your higher power working within you....its all within...b/c we were "split off" at early ages due to one betrayal after another, something was damaged...we became fragmented....we developed a wounded self to cope while our CORE self dug in and hid from all the chaos and danger....that CORE is what we need to connect with and integrate wiht our other parts, like the wounded self, the conscious self and also our spirit self.....i think things often times come in 3's.....body mind spirit

and re: the mind part......there is the conscious self that says "oh yea, i am safe now, i can trust SOME entities" but then the next layer the subconscius/aka inner child says "bull**** remember when so and so did such and such to us??? remember all the unanswered prayrs for help?? LOOK at ME????" then we have our soul....that part of us that is a continuum , that part that was always there, sometimes i call it my higher parent b/c that part of me is clean....unscathed ....that is my CORE or superconscious which NOONE can touch b/c it is the divine part of me......then of course we have the universal part of the divine some folks call it the holy spirit, as a former catholic, it is the "Christ within" and a lot of times I still think of it as that........

the subconscious aka inner child---wounded part that is very very deep and thus takes a long time to heal depending on how long, how severe the trauma is, THAT is the part we need to heal....we need to surrender to LOVE to heal this part....through repetitive acts by the conscious self, (affirmations never worked for me b/c i don't believe in words, but actions) so my repetitive taking care of me....my repetitive working the program...my repetitive making better choices aides my inner child to trust a teeny bit more with each good demonstration from my conscious self......as it learns to trust it "comes out" to play more, becomes more spontaneous more, acts out badly lesss, becomes more playful, loving, open to trust PROVEN safe others.....

as everything integrates more and more, mind, sub-conscious (inner child) , spirit (CORE) some call it higher parent, also it becomes easier to re-connect with the Christ within or highest self, whatever one wants to call it, but my mistake was looking for a diety outside of me....

as the betrayals piled up, i became addicted to control....i had to be my own god b/c i trusted noone, that limited me b/c i was shutting me off from the vastness and goodness of the universe.....because i am limited, that being my own "god" caused me more pain and loss b/c i am not omniscient or omnipotent.......i had a choice...stay in the hard pain of denial and just keep on with the unhealthy behaviour patterns .....or surrender to the soft pain of surrendering to love and the truth (step 4) and love of the community as we are all interdependent......

anyway, that is kinda my take on how i am "doing life" and inch by tiny inch, i do see progress........

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

For me I trust HP, God, totally. The bible has it all right there. Faith. I know what makes the world as it is, why it is, and I believe in the New Kingdom and way coming.

All this evil, disease, pollution etc and more are coming to an end. Satan made this a mess, something is happening and in faith, I feel so happy and relieved.

Nothing is put in front of you from hp. things are simply what they are, then it is up to us on how we choose to handle it. We can ask hp how, we can give all the stress and bolony to him.

I could ask why did he have all my family and friends die? Why am I completely alone? why am I always in pain? Why did I fall in love with someone who made it clear he wanted me then he left?

I thank HP for being there to catch me, keeping me going till I know what is coming is finally here! NO more evil to cause all this pain.

I trust and have faith becuz he is bringing something better. He did not bring the evil, but he gave and or gives us ways to deal with it and move fw.

Newlife girl · ~*Service Worker*~

Free will is what comes to my mind. God gave us free will to behave how ever we wish to. i learned, slowly, throught the help of al anon, the steps and my sponsor, that my AH cannot be controlled or changed. he can only change if he wants to change. The way I choose to have faith in God is by handing over all my problems to him. It's a weight being lifted off my shoulders, knowing that I am not responsible for other people's choices in life. I have not been put on this earth to fix people. even though I am a nurse...i can fix my patients to a degree. i am talking about fixing adults and their behaviors I dont agree with. I learned that I could stop yelling, nagging, crying and begging my AH to stop drinking and get help. I did that for many years, and it didnt work. I can trust that my AH has a program he can work, and that God is available to help him if he chooses to accept the help.
I am actually grateful for some people in my life that I wouldnt have if it wasnt for my AH. i have a wonderful daughter with him, and he also encouraged me to do martial arts...which has helped me a lot...and that is also where i found my best friend who has a daughtervthe same age as mine. i also found a wonderful sponsor. i also switched jobs to work for a better hospital because of my AH. so...if we look hard enough...we might be able to find some good things that have come from the alcoholic in our lives.
oh yeah!! and this forum of course! and meeting great people here.

and I also trusted in God when i left my AH. i knew there had to be a HP of some kind that would allow me to see that i can live without a man in my life.

-- Edited by Newlife girl on Monday 5th of January 2015 05:35:22 PM

bud · ~*Service Worker*~

As an additional thought, in any of my relationships, I had to learn to trust myself first before trusting someone else... another part of how I'm a work in progress.

robinfl · Member

God, our loving Heavenly Father, uses suffering or misfortune in our lives to prove our faith or to test our character.

As a parent I would never push my son into the road in front of traffic, but if my son ran out into the road I would discipline him to teach him of the possible danger. I have purposely inflicted temporary pain on my sons backside to teach him to avoid greater pain in the future. I am much wiser than he is. I can see a bigger picture.

Sin and disobedience usually cause our suffering, but God can use it to make us stronger if we let Him. Character growth is built through proving: tribulation, hardships, sorrow, and trials.

We are human. We spend a great deal of our lives seeking comforts and avoiding pain because it is natural to relate negatively to suffering.

When we ask God to help us we need to expect difficulties which allow Him to break our pride, rebellion, selfishness and independence so we can learn to be totally dependent on Him.

We can look at the bigger picture and see God has a greater plan. When we wait on God, we honor Him because we are allowing Him to have His way and His timing in our lives. It is the highest expression of faith in His righteousness. This patience is fruit of Gods Spirit in losing of our self-will for His perfect will. Andrew Murray beautifully explains in Waiting on God :

Seek not only the help, the gift, seek Himself; wait for Him. Give God His glory by resting in Him, by trusting Him fully, by waiting patiently for Him. This patience honors Him greatly. It leaves Him, as God on the throne, to do His work. It yields self wholly into His hands. It lets God be God.

Waiting on God teaches us to trust the fullness of His timing. When we cant control something or see the future we learn to trust. We move beyond self-reliance to trusting God. What a wonderful opportunity! Waiting opens us to vulnerability but also to spiritual growth. Waiting on Him makes us stronger, better, and happier.

When we have to wait without knowing the answers, without knowing whats ahead, we are nudged into a new perspective and learn to grow in patience. I know that God has a perfect timing because He never, ever fails me. He always works out everything for the best in every situation. All the times I have ever worried, was time wasted. Every time I wait on Him, things always turn out better than I could imagine.

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

Hey Ohno

you got a LOT of esh here, i hope you can use some of it...

step 2 simplifies things...."came to believe in a Higher Power AS WE UNDERSTAND it" it does not say God,Jesus,Buddha,Allah----it just says HIGHER POWER>.......

that helped me stay in the program b/c the organized religion gods I could not accept.....didn't like any of what i heard......i wanted good health, wealth, love and self expression, guidance when I have lost my way and i ask for direction, the serenity prayer means a lot to me, its probably the only prayer that makes any sense....asking for peace to accept---courage to change----wisdom to know that i can only change me (what it inplies) yea, whatever makes you feel connected to the universal creator of perfect love and peace and truth, embrace it...whatever you choose to call it, the program gives you the freedom to name your HP whatever you want, even pick the gender which is most comfortable.

many of us child abuse survivors (females) cannot STAND a male gender god...I am one of them..."his will" just hearing those words, make me kinda nauseous....for obviious reasons.....so it doesn't even HAVE to have a gender....i see posts on here about he/she/it i hear posts referring to nature, to perfect love as their HP....whatever works for you, i hope you can find it soon, and embrace it.....

i don't believe there is but one way to the creator of perfect LOVE---there are too many of us, with soo many different experiences and feelings, etc., that to me, if i seek to be a vessel of love and peace and tolerence and good will towards all creatures, I am on the right track....I want what I need and I want to give what I can........

when i quit over thinking my HP, it is easier...HP doesn't want to be complicated to us.....the program is the closest thing to creator that I have ever seen and my favorite slogan, well, one of them is "keep it simple" I use that when thinking of my HP....i keep my HP simple.......Just saying...Hope u feel a bit better and have some direction after reading all these replies......its stuff like this board that makes me know that there is "something" higher than me and its of LOVE

aquamom23 · Senior Member

I struggled for years with God concepts. I looked at religious folk around me and they acted so human. Intrinsically I believed god was love. Looked for evidence of gods love. I read translated vedic scripture, books on krsna consciousness, Buddhism, Baha'i, aleister Crowley, angels, jesus,indiginous understandings, laws of attraction, eckancar, paganism, went to university and engaged in scientific thought but like religion I found it contradicted itself. From Baha'i faith I took spirit and science are like wings of a bird, each is needed to fly. From krsna consciousness, meditation is not sitting down, sitting down is just sitting down. Work is meditation which ties into every thing having a practical application including love. I found common themes run through all religions compassion and love. Whether practiced or not another story. Buddhism and vedic teachings including krsna consciousness relate to reincarnation and a lama once said to me, we must have compassion for the ignorant for their ignorance must be worked off over many lifetimes. Being born weary this struck a chord. At the same time the messenger gave me a strong something not right vibe later confirmed, thus no human will be my HP a message often repeated. To answer the question I don't hold god responsible for human choices. If every human being chose to act in empathy and do unto others as they would unto themselves we'd be free. Thus the love I sought of God is within each of us waiting to be chosen. When will we choose it? In my ancient culture we worked for the collective now we serve self. Most if not all cultures were collective oriented.....I mostly look at the makers of problems as responsible for them. Not the creator however we conceive of creator. I look at all the wonderful skills we have, the beautiful planet we had, and just shudder that the best we could do was invent money and fill the earth with rubbish literally. So I try to recycle, try to catch a sunset, try to not be angry snide etc. But I'm human. With intuition and instinct mind and body and yes soul. Body is dying from day one yet we worship its appearance in modern life to the neglect of all other facets. Is this idolatry? I enjoy pondering the overarching picture your question poses and the interlinking pictures too. Thanks for letting me ramble and remind myself.

ohno · Senior Member

Because this alcoholic is my grandson - one I cherished and devoted 22 years to - It feels like a punishment I don't deserve. That's probably a remnant of Catholicism - I do believe in reincarnation and karma, so even though I was good to him for so many years, perhaps I had a sneaking karma that is manifesting now (in other words, I do "deserve" what is happening to me now) . . . I can't escape the pain of his alcoholism - that feels like a trap.

The genesis of this thread was the question about how people trust in God - just what exactly are they trusting God to do and how do they realize what they think or know is being done.

Maybe the question is about letting go - how do you let go and trust when the evidence appears extremely disturbing. Maybe that is the question.

I have to find a way to understand this for myself - obviously - otherwise, I will continue suffering.

I am not a stranger to the 12 Steps, so this is not a beginner's question, although, I am now a beginner again.

I don't want to accept that in my old age I am going to have to work hard at this - that is one of the obstacles of which I am aware - just don't wanna do it. "Girls just want to have fun," as I told my sponsor.

In the Abraham Hicks material they talk about doing a process called "Wouldn't it be nice," when you imagine the best to raise your vibration.

I can't live in constant worry. Just need some practical day-to-day tools.

Going to an open AA meeting tonight where I am told there is a lot of recovery.

The Alanon parent's meeting I attended recently was beyond tragic. I just don't feel like hanging out in that energy is helpful. I felt super bad and started worrying, and future tripping based on the sad stories I heard.

David Hawkins. M.D. (Power vs. Force) said AA meeting energy is high - I don't think the Alanon energy is as a high, because people are living "in the problem," as opposed to the solution - or maybe not a lot of people with recovery spoke that evening, not sure.

-- Edited by ohno on Tuesday 6th of January 2015 01:15:20 PM

Newlife girl · ~*Service Worker*~

I understand what you mean about the al anon meetings. i was going to one that i stopped going to because it has been very depressing. not very many members are in recovery. so, i go to another meeting that has long time members who know how to cope with letting go of the A. You might want to shop around for an al anon meeting with long time members who show recovery. I think a sponsor could help you along your journey. What i have witnessed at AA meetings is they have more "energy" ...so I understand what you are saying. you can also find that same kind of excitement and recovery in an Al anon meeting.
like I said in another post, letting go to me means allowing the A to make their own mistakes, and handing their problems over to God. It is not my job to control another person's life. I understand the dynamics are different when it comes to being married to an A vs having a grandhcild who is an A. what I find helpful is keeping busy doing my own things.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

There was a time in my life when I thought that these words: "you will know them by their fruits" meant that people would know whether or not I was a good person by how my kids and grandkids turned out. Now, I think those words mean that folks will know what kind of person I am by the fruits of love, joy, peace, patient endurance, kindness, generosity, faith, gentleness and charity they experience in relationship to me. They can experience that only if I'm willing to work on those things within my person that get in the way of those fruits with a power greater than myself which is aided by the Al-Anon program and those in the fellowship who know they want to live their lives being true to themselves and in peace. I will probably never be all that I aspire to be nor will all those fruits be evident in me at all times or fully. But, I can keep working on me one day at a time. It is up to my kids and grandchild to do the same if they choose.

Recently, a good man I know who started a local business many years ago and lived according to all that was expected of him died suddenly. Our local paper makes it possible for people as does the funeral home to write condolences or memories - probably like every other city in the States. There were six entries although the obituaries ran for multiple days.

Two weeks before he died, a younger man died in my hometown. He'd been in AA for 27 years. There were multiple entries starting from his childhood right up to the day he died accounts of all he had taught people and how much he had meant to people in both his pre-AA days and his post AA-days. He died sober.

What was extremely striking to me was how few people - including the older man's (by about 6 years) employees wrote anything in a long running obit versus the recovering A's obit that ran for fewer days. They were both good people. It's just that one of them may have used his former life as a vehicle of transformation and others could feel the fruits of his labor enough that they were willing to say aloud and in public how this man's trials and recovery (and even his wild days) made a positive difference in their lives and the other just lived an ordinary life according to societal norms? Don't know, but I do finding myself wondering about it.

I have also experienced a power greater than myself that doesn't punish but lets me try things and experience the results. I think people are big into punishing themselves and others - there seems to be some grand joy in "lock 'em up and throw away the key," "show 'em whose boss," "give 'em hell," but that is never how my HP has treated me or encouraged me to treat others. That goes more with the "eye for an eye" mentality that keeps me perpetually hung up in a cycle that truly goes nowhere but down. Discipline isn't punishment. Discipline teaches. Punishment is punitive and damaging.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 6th of January 2015 02:13:18 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 6th of January 2015 02:30:25 PM

ohno · Senior Member

For me, right now, my HP is manifesting in whatever is good and beautiful. I just saged my house - I got a massage last night - I am focusing on a bigger picture view of what is happening - why it might be for my learning. It's a good thing my sponsor is more of a holistic type of person like myself - I think she can relate to my methods and it feels good to be supported.

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

ohno wrote:
I just saged my house - I got a massage last night - I am focusing on a bigger picture view of what is happening - why it might be for my learning. It's a good thing my sponsor is more of a holistic type of person like myself - I think she can relate to my methods and it feels good to be supported.

I love sage...I get it organic at my favorite store......I think it is very positive energy and it does , in my opinion, negate the negative energy.....I know that the cleansing power of this herb is from creator, creator uses many things, gives us many things with which we can help ourselves........I burn my sage, talk to my angels, talk to creator, talk to Jesus, too.....yea, staying aligned w/ the forces of light is a good thing......glad u seem to sound better.....the one thing that makes me question reincarnation is that if it is true, why can't I know the lesson or karma I am paying off?? like what did I do??? lol.....dunno if it is so or not so.....I am just trying to make good, loving karma in this life.....I do believe what goes around, comes around...just my take......

ohno · Senior Member

Yes, living in the light is very important. I am also calling on angels - specifically Archangel Michael who can cut negative cords, clear negative energy, protect against dark forces . . . And St. Germaine, and the Violet Light also negates negativity. I feel much better when I am working with the light instead of reacting from a low vibration to worry, etc. (as I have been doing and was doing last night).

I realize that my original PTSD is triggered by my grandson and the PTSD I have suffered with him BUT - I am thinking now it is there for my healing, so focusing on that.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi it is interesting that this topic is going on and on and sort of confirms the reason our Traditions are so forceful reagarding outside topics Al-Anon recovery is about focusing on all the Al-Anon tools in order to recover from the devastation of living in the disease.

I do believe that Alanon meetings are not as lively as AA meetings because we're going inward, struggling to find our part in the insanity by letting go of our fantasies, denial, pretend and other tools that we used in order to survive. In AA meetings, the members are still able to use those tools as long as they don't drink and go to meetings, one day at a time.

Even having this discussion is diverting us from focusing on ourselves and learning how to use the tools
The discussion about God, higher power, Buddhism, and other religious or spiritual practices also divert us from our primary aim which is to discuss Al-Anon tools and recovery.

The Traditions clearly recognize that if we allow ourselves to be diverted and to venture into other topics we will easily abandon the program and be off and running once again. Staying focused on our Al-Anon tools in recovery is not easy as it is much more fun to talk about something else. We can do that other places, after meetings, Face book, twitter everywhere else.

Tradition Three clearly states that Al-Anon family groups should have no other affiliation because we are gathered together for mutual aid-Tradition Six states we ought never endorse financial or lend our names to outside enterprises because we might be diverted from our primary aim and lastly Tradition 10 suggests that we in Al-Anon groups have no opinion on outside issues less our name be drawn away from our recovery and into controversy.

I believe as in Al-Anon meetings we are here to do one thing-- recover from the disease that has nearly destroyed us.. That we are able to walk in those doors and strive once again to live life on life's terms is a miracle in itself. And I am extremely grateful and proud to be a member of the Al-Anon Family Groups

-- Edited by hotrod on Tuesday 6th of January 2015 04:23:40 PM

ohno · Senior Member

Hotrod: Please clarify - are these discussions forbidden on this forum, or is it just your preference not to read anything that you perceive to be non-Alanon related?

I was asking about trusting in God, which is imperative in the steps - of course everyone defines God differently - I have heard the Christian God spoken of in Alanon meetings - are you saying that is the only God allowed for Alanon members to talk about?

Please refer me to the rules about discussion that pertain to this topic.

Thank you

-- Edited by ohno on Tuesday 6th of January 2015 05:12:18 PM

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

I kind of agree with hotrod, ohno. How important is it comes to mind.focusing on what you done get about the program and keeping the focus on outside issues divert us from our goal. I must admit to feeling a wee bit attacked as an alanon member. I am not living in my problem, far from it. Ive never met as many healthy people in one room as an alanon meeting. Oh yes, ive been to aa meetings and they are bigger, ego is still alive in well in the newer members, the tur over is larger, more and more new members. Its a different perspective that again cant really be compared in my experience. Becoming an alanon member saved my life, totally. When i talk about it, im hoping to attract people to it, i want them to have what ive got. I think questioning the program is good and healthy but to constantly take that negative viewpoint and make comments make me feel you think were all miserable people stuck in our problem, i am getting a bit offended if im honest.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

ohno I am saying that each of us is entitled to find his or her own definition of his HP. This is an important fact and is stressed in the Steps and the literature. The wise founders of this program understood that there would be a wide variety of people looking for recovery so that having the ability to define their own HP was very important so as to avoid controversy and allow each person the freedom of their beliefs .

Speaking on how to use the tools is certainly a gift to all of us and we can all share our ESH on this topic Speaking about how we practice our spiritual beliefs also works if they are brought back to showing how these spiritual practices help us us to let go of anger, fear or resentment--

When I read your responses I hear much discussion of PTSD, anxiety, not wanting to feel bad, wanting to have fun and attend entertaining meetings and how alanon meetings are not acceptable.

I support alanon principles and philosophy and all the tools that are offered, Sharing ESH is how it works. If a new comer comes on to the site it is important that they find positive information that will convince them to try recovery.in Alanon

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

Dear Betty,

I am guilty of many posts on this topic as i found it fascinating....I do see where you are coming from....I can get distracted and sorta did a bit, however on the flip side, i kinda learned a lot too....sorry i "fed into this" with multiple posts....i have had soo much strugle with an HP, that any post about it is gonna attract me b/c of my issues, however, I want to focus on the nuts and bolts of the program......

Thanks for your guidance.....I always want to listen to the ones who are prospering in program, like you are.......HUGS

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

The letting go process for me came on several levels starting on realizing I was powerless. I had many preconceived ideas and experiences that honestly didn't work and I found myself totally lost. I had to learn lessons that kept me humble or as my sponsor described it "teachable" and I had to learn to ask myself questions in the middle of thinking, feeling and acting that I had the solutions and that it was "all about me" like....Could I be wrong?. My sponsor took me to a very high level on considering that question. "Could you be wrong" is now a question in my inventory process and often the answer is yes.

When I first got into Al-Anon I was coming from a "me or all about me" direction and then HP put some members in front of me to help me learn to listen not for the differences between me and them...and...the similarities. When I dropped the differences I stopped spending so much time on the "all about me" and more time on the similarities "we" were dealing with as a group. I learned that quite often I was doing the "all about me" behavior because I was naturally fearful back then and uneasy with silence and the only thing I thought I knew anything about and needed to explain and prove was "Me". I am not different much and the differences that do exist at times have little value. Today I love and accept myself as my Higher Power does and that is enough.

God didn't put the alcoholics and addicts in my life. They found the booze and drugs on their own. (((hugs))) smile

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

Jerry F wrote:

God didn't put the alcoholics and addicts in my life. They found the booze and drugs on their own. (((hugs)))

Oh Jerry, this is a total keeper....HUGS

ohno · Senior Member

I was "processing." I thought that was okay. There are a lot of posts on this forum that focus only on the problem - I was focusing on solutions and still am. I do not believe I ever mentioned "Buddhism," but is that against the rules?

It is okay to define your higher power as "God" or a door knob, but not okay to say you want to focus on up-liftment . . . that's a little confusing.

Is "having fun" against Alanon principles? For me, that is taking care of myself, as is getting massages and focusing on beauty. Everyone is not the same.

I actually felt so much better today (and still do) - that is my healing.

I do have PTSD and I am not going to hide it.

Is that another forbidden topic?

ohno · Senior Member

And just to correct an allegation: Nowhere did I say "Alanon meetings are not acceptable."

I have learned a lot in Alanon and I also have other tools I use to help me in my recovery from PTSD caused by alcoholics and dry drunks.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

I, too, have appreciated Al-Anon and have also had to gain the support of other helps, too, ohno. We have a lot in common. Out of all the supports I have utilized, Al-Anon really has been the most centralized support when it comes to dealing with the pain and fear of this disease and the many things that go along with the disease. I am sorry you have been so hurt by the disease. All of us have been. You are in the right place.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

IOhno I do believe you are deliberately attempting to misconstrue any response that is offered to you. I recognize the defensiveness as it was a negative tool I used often

Sharing our, experiences, strength and hope is how we recover. I have indicated my position clearly and since Tradition One maintains that our common welfare should come first and that personal progress depends on Unity, I will no longer justify, argue, defend, or engage further in this discussion

ohno · Senior Member

That's good. I don't think I did anything wrong. I was processing - you had an objection and threw in some false allegations, which I defended.

I found some ways to uplift myself - and shared them.

I still have no idea what you objected to.

If my particular process bothered you, not sure why you would jump in.

There are a lot of other discussions going on.

If there is something I did wrong, please specify what exactly it was.

Having fun is putting the focus on me, as are all of the other remedies I mentioned.

I feel like I am not welcome here, but I am not exactly clear why.

-- Edited by ohno on Tuesday 6th of January 2015 07:39:45 PM

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Ohno I understand your point of reference because like you I had to come from my own experiences as a point of reference to start processing the tools as well. I have a Catholic background and do enjoy working with angels (meditation in Alanon ) because it was an easy step for me to understand. I also believe in living in the light (transforming character defects). I see you trying to use your knowledge to understand where it fits in with Alanon and the tools. I like you had either PTSD or trauma reactions. I don't think you are saying anything wrong. I think sometimes it is just like speaking French and English and you have to be able to speak both languages for things not to get misconstrued. Keep coming back ... I think you will figure out where the steps fit into your other beliefs. Love and Light

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

I think in the end you will be well versed in a few healing/recovery methods... Nothing wrong with being bilingual....lol

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Ohno: Betty is one of our moderators. It appears to me that this discussion is going beyond the bounds of what Betty sees to be the board is for at this point. I can only speak for me in saying that I don't believe you've said anything wrong as much as we are going outside the bounds of our moderator's understanding of our board's function. Out of respect for her and out of concern for you, I'd like to suggest that we drop the current discussion and simply move on to another? I'd also like to say that our board, like Al-Anon, is a place for people affected by another's alcoholism and like Al-Anon meetings, only we can decide if we belong. I see that you are hurting and that you have also said that you are affected by another's alcoholism. I hope you will continue to come back and just learn with the rest of us how to deal with the various things that happen in us and to us as a result of this disease. We are all equals in this fellowship with experience, strength and hope to share about what it was like, what its like now, and where we hope to go by utilizing the steps, slogans and suggestions of the Al-Anon program. We can sometimes get way off on topics that are truly beneficial to the whole of our group and sometimes our moderators step in and ask us to let it go perhaps because they know more about the workings of the whole than some of us who just share at the board might know?

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

I agree with grateful, I could see in myself my getting kinda "off track" and on a "roll" on this one very interesting topic and it kinda took for a bit my focus off the steps, slogans, et al

Ohno, please keep coming back...Nobody I saw was implying you are not welcome here...I did not get any impressions from members or moderators that you were not welcome and your posts reflect that you are hurting and we want you to share and to work through your feelings..

however, that said, i do agree that we really and this includes me, too, we really need to move on from this b/c HP ??s can lead to religious disagreements and I think it is a kind of hot topic in that one might take it that their way of spirituality is unacceptable, etc., and on and on...There are so many types of beliefs re: HP and spirituality is diverse and thats a good thing, but we need to know that we give our experience, strength and hope here w/out implying at all that "well..my religion isn't as good as yours" or whatever the case may be....I try to avoid religion..even on my facebook, i stay away from it b/c i am not of any particular religion, i am native american adn i take a dash of this and a speck of that and maybe a handful of this, and so on, whatever works for me...That does not make it anything more than what works for ME!!! I guess we can lose our focus real fast and get on a tangent re: religion, HP, or spirituality and lose our focusing on the other parts of the program, i.e., the slogans, steps, traditions, etc.......

So you keep posting and keep healing....the pain does subside and lose its power as we work together, hand in hand, with our different backgrounds, beliefs, professions, journeys, we all have but one common goal.....HEALING RECOVERY.....all for one...one for all sorta............JUST saying

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Just another add from Hilo Hawaii...I was born and raised in the disease of alcoholism and within the disease was abused...mentally, emotionally, spiritually and physically. I learned how as much as I could to defend myself and then from inside of my family of origin that didn't help much because I was young and small.

Guess what?

I habitually defend without even starting it consciously. I have defensive self talk and thoughts and while at the conception of it I had the need to protect myself I came to understand in recovery that because of aging and changing I didn't have to do it for the same reasons as before cause when I got older and bigger I wasn't treated as a child from inside of an alcoholic/addict family. And....habits last still so when I find myself thinking and self talking or nightmaring or imaging the defensive drama and trauma all over again I stop it cause I am not being attacked...I am reacting old tapes.

PTSD...Post Traumatic Stress Disorder...yes I've been diagnosed with it and know where it comes from; my alcoholic family of origin and the military (another kind of dramatic, traumatic, alcoholic family) The most important word in PTSD for me is "Post" meaning it's over...done...gone and I don't have to use it in my present life as I choose. I just need to understand when I am having a reaction so that I can give myself best treatment and not get caught up in the chaos. Before I understood I use to react in a certain way which made matters worse for me and for others...now that I understand I can recognize using patience and thought and respond a different way; a better way which doesn't make things worse; makes them better and doesn't last as long.

I have nothing to defend and I don't have to offer anything about myself up as a matter of contention or discussion. I use to do that to draw in victims to justify my defense which often was my offense. The disease makes a lot of sickness...Thanks for letting me share. (((((hugs))))) smile

aquamom23 · Senior Member

I too allowed my mind to dance with this topic without considering the distraction it can be when the nuts and bolts of real and raw recovery and faces of denial play tempo in the background. I love this community and the ala non tools I've got remain the only practical ways I've found to deal with alcoholism. sometimes that feels terrible. Because the only way out is through. Anyway, for me I do apologise sincerely and unreservedly if I've in anyway contributed to alanon in this forum being political via God concepts. I love that its the HP of anyone's understanding. And that its free. I wish you all the best ohno and like everyone affected by alcoholism, I know we want someone or something to blame at some stage on the trip. Really we can only take responsibility for our own stuff. I've said it elsewhere here, untreated codas to me can be far more damaging than alcoholics. We focus on then so much they do us the favour of obscuring our own shortcomings yet still play scapegoat to our victim. Codas are master manipulators its how we get our needs met till we learn a better way. Alanon yet again is the way I came looking for because as much as I've disliked the pain of the process and wished I never needed people to understand this stuff neither fear nor escapism nourish me. Enough of my 25 cents for now. Sunshine and washing call.

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

Ohno I am a visual learner so I used the cutting cords method to learn detachment and work through the grief. Some people can write letters to validate themselves (not send them) or talk to there sponsor. I have a harder time with that process because I get stuck. When I visualize cutting fake rope between my feelings and others, I can emotionally detach. When I visualize having a conversation with someone about my motives and my heart is open, I can let go. The reason I can trust the HP of my understanding is because I started to trust myself. Those visualization techniques work for me.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.