How to Be Your True, Real Self When the Alcoholic is Volatile - Al-Anon Family Group

ohno · Senior Member

How to Be Your True, Real Self When the Alcoholic is Volatile

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

I do my best to have boundaries so that im not in the presence of the drinker when they are drunk.

I cant have an open easy relationship with the alcoholics in my life, sober or not. Their disease means they have taken parts of my life ive shared with them and held it against me or thrown it back at me. If you show them your fears then they often use these to control you or get what they want. I dont see them as bad or nasty anymore, just sick.

Because i know they are sick i dont offer up anything that could be used or taken for their disease to progress. I am detached and now my boundaries are working, i only get calm visits, courtesy and manners are about it. I dont pry into the life of the alcoholic anymore because it hurts me to know and im no longer offered up the information either. I keep it light and no longer offer advice or guidance unless its specifically asked for. I dont judge either so when there is chaos or drama i try and keep what i feel or think to myself or save it for alanoners. Alcoholics are riddled with guilt and so i dont give reprimands anymore. The disease also likes to get told off, it helps with their guilt. I dont provide this anymore either.

Its actually not a bad way to treat anyone in my life, just keeping it simple, im a bit quieter, listen more and dont point my finger anymore. It gives me peace of mind, less guilt and i can keep the focus on me. Alcoholics have got the right to make choices even if we dont like them, its their life, their path and ive not got it sussed enough to have the right to tell someone to live my way, there are other ways to live and we have all got to live how we see fit. As for being my true self, then i am not relaxed and completely open with anyone who has abused me or are volatile if thats what you mean. Im guarded and ive got to be.

Its ok to take a break from this, i.e. not answeri g your phone, turning it off for a few days, being unavailable is ok and is good for you and the alcobolic. If you need time to just be, to feel safe and peaceful then your first duty is to you and your health and wellbeing.

-- Edited by el-cee on Friday 2nd of January 2015 01:51:32 PM

ohno · Senior Member

I used to have the fantasy of "running away to China."

Now, I just love it when I turn my phone off at night. It would be good for me to keep it off for awhile, but then I fear someone would show up on my doorstep (not necessarily that alcoholic, but someone else).

I hate feeling a victim to their energy and their problems.

I am not sure how to deal with this because I can't imagine ever not FEELING that way.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

I discovered that "MY True Self" was deeply hidden under all the fear, anxiety,and sadness generated by my interactions with the disease.

I needed to go within with my sponsor, explore all my negative reactions, learn how I had contributed to the insanity , make amends for my part and then I could reveal and uncover my true self. The steps and meetings helped me to dig out from the immense pain I was living under. Expecting a sick person to fix me was part of my sickness
Keeping an open mind and having the courage to share my inner most secrets set me free, In other words working the program set me free

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

I chose to stop answering the phone and also letting the A know that they were not welcome on my property without an invitation. If I had to, I would call the police and set up a trespassing order or obtain a restraining order. I don't have to listen to a person ranting and I have simply hung up or said: "Call me when you are feeling better." Then, I hung up the phone. There was a time when my phone kept ringing and ringing. Voicemail would pick up and pick up and pick up. What the caller learned was that they could call 30 times if they chose and I would just go on with my life. It was not my job to answer the phone just because they were sick and those calls stopped. I would also receive calls from foolish creditors who had given someone credit who had no credit and learned that telling them the truth - in one case it was the previous owners of my house - in other cases my son - that I didn't know anything about business that wasn't mine - did nothing to stop their calls, so I changed my number to a non-listed number that no creditor would find. If I have to, I will change it again. I'm not a victim of anybody's bad behavior and I'm not responsible for listening to anything that is none of my business. I see an A's disease as none of my business. I can softball my boundaries or I can hardball them depending on the lengths any sick person will go to get their way. They can think about what I do or don't do anyway they want to think about it. Their thoughts and beliefs are also not my business if I haven't contributed to them in any way.

ohno · Senior Member

I will be exploring this more. Some of it goes back to when he was a baby and had to go to ICU and none of the people taking care of him noticed that - I called one of them from work and told them to take him to the hospital - so it's feeling that I HAVE to rescue or he might die. I understand he is not a baby anymore, but he is still in danger and some part of me is still feeling responsible.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

S/he might die is a driver for me and has been since my firstborn following several miscarriages and two troubled pregnancies. I did everything I could to protect my kids. This is what I learned and am still learning - they still got hurt and they still might die. I simply am not in control no matter how much I have tried to be in control. As adults, my kids are 100% in charge of what they do and don't do as is their HP. It is an irritant to both my kids and my grandson when I let that fear gain control of my thinking. It is also a reality that any of them could die or all of them could die before I do. That is a very real possibility. Facing my fear of death has helped me a lot. And really, its my disease that is fearful of death. Not me. Not really. Dying is part of living. My entire life has shown me that. The greater danger is living my whole life tied up in knots over what is inevitable for all of us and not being in control of the how or the why of it. I slip and slide sometimes and I've gotten so much better about it. It's easier for others to be with me, too, I'll bet.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 2nd of January 2015 04:13:05 PM

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

I have to be my true self...period. If they are volatile, then they need to go away and that is what will wind up happening even if it is a family member. I might avoid some topics, but I won't be fake or act like the elephant in the room does not exist just because an alcoholic or addict is too big a baby to handle it.

ohno · Senior Member

I do not fear death for myself, but for some reason, do fear it for my grandson. I am sure it has to do with many core values and beliefs.

On volatility: I cannot expose myself to it. It is not good for me - I am too vulnerable and feel unprotected and unsafe.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Dear OHNO you have been on guard and protecting for oh so long!!! You are a wonderful person and love unconditionally. Alanon has taught me to love myself a little so I can love others in a more constructive manner.

Going inward and exploring all the different triggers that are buried there is an I important step. I am glad you found this one regarding when he was a baby. Keep on looking and sharing. You will soon learn how to love him and still nourish and take care of yourself.

I found I could not recover alone as it is not easy and is a process . Please keep on keeping on You deserve to live a life with serenity

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

This is a really good thread. I loved what grateful said. Also, hotrods suggestion about tracing the thoughts back. I think the idea of looking inwards at your belief systems is the answer. Alcoholism made me terrified and it wasnt really based on logical thoughts, it was to do with stories that ran away inside my head and not really based on reality. Its the constant living in heightened emotions and tension, living from one crisis to the next. I feel much better through working this program ohno. There is hope.

ohno · Senior Member

I am analytical and have done a Fourth Step and life review and will do another Fourth Step and will continue reviewing triggers and examining beliefs and values.

Thank you all for contributing.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

In my own experience, I have feared other people dying because in some ways, my identity has been tied to them. The question: who would I be if I were no longer a daughter, a mother, a grandmother, a sister, an aunt, a granddaughter, a non-profit director has been asked and answered in different ways and I'm still questioning. The fears for others really does all circle back to me and what I tell myself about myself and about death and dying. In Hospice training, I was taught that in some cases I might need to encourage people to give their loved ones permission to die. I had to do that when my son was in a coma. I can remember sitting at his bedside and knowing I needed to give him permission to die even if he was just 16. The monitors were all beeping quietly. I held his hand and said what was true for me and what I knew was true for his Dad, my heart breaking at the knowledge that he would be permanently brain damaged if he awakened. When I said what I needed to say, all the monitors hooked up to his brainwaves and vital signs starting jumping on the screen. I knew he had heard me on some level. Several days later he awakened and I knew that both he and his HP wanted him to live. I loved my son and I recognized how selfish it would be for me to want him to live for me and his Dad. He was going to face a lot of turmoil and it was his decision as to whether or not he wanted to live through whatever laid ahead for him. I died that day to my desire for him to live for me. That doesn't mean that the clutching fear doesn't rise up in me still at times but I cannot let it control me or try to control my loved ones.

ohno · Senior Member

That must have been very difficult.

For me, the issue has to do with natural health, juxtaposed with unnatural alcoholism and self-destruction. And I know I am powerless over that, but it is still a difficult concept for me to accept. Also, related to that, is creating bad health through one's actions - since I was a caregiver and nurtured him, it baffles me and feels unnatural. It feels like a primal "survival of the fittest" issue for me.

When a child is healthy and you nurture them, there is an expectation that they will grow up "big and strong," not that they would hurt themselves - it just really bothers me and I would challenge anyone to be okay with someone's active self-destruction. It goes against God and is "unnatural."

Also, seeing someone you love suffer - for any reason, is just hard - when they don't seem to understand how to stop their own suffering (and they have the power to do it), then it is doubly hard.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

I've been through it. I understand. I've had to learn to focus on me. I still go through it. The only solution that results in serenity for me is working the program. I still will argue with reality from time to time and want what I can't have but my sponsor helps me through those tough times. I don't go trippingly through the tulips in la-la-la land. I am very aware of what I don't like and sometimes hate what is my reality. And then I remember I am powerless over another person, I don't know their purpose, I don't know what is best for them and I can't say for certain that what they are experiencing isn't something that will be used for good. I'm simply not my HP or my loved ones'. I'm just an ordinary woman with a limited view of life who will go crazy fighting what is true in my life. I don't have to like it. I can choose not to accept it. I'm free to do that. Yet, I've learned that acceptance is a gentler way to go through life for me and I prefer it to fighting, fighting, fighting something I simply cannot change.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 2nd of January 2015 10:48:35 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 2nd of January 2015 10:49:45 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 2nd of January 2015 11:14:43 PM

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

No argument from me on that last post ohno. Everything you said there was absolutely true. It isn't easy and I don't think anyone reaches an acceptance point where they are "okay with" a loved one's active addiction.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

So true, PC.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 2nd of January 2015 11:37:28 PM

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

I do not believe anyone is suggesting that we are happy with the extremely painful and dreadful situations that we have found yourselves in. We are striving , one day at a time, to attempt to learn to live life on life's terms and not ours.

I have found that acceptance does not mean that I like the situation, am happy about it nor am OK with the truth I see I am between a rock and a hard place and --Acceptance just means that I have stopped fighting a losing battle. I can always present AA literature to the people I am concerned about and that is enough.

When I accept the truth about a condition I am free to stop using all my energy in an attempt to change the unchangeable and can then start to heal my own emotional wounds.
Serenity, courage and wisdom are true gifts of this program

Mark I love your new Avatar

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks :) I am going to alternate my 7 pets for avatars. This is Cooper! One of our 3 dogs.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

biggrin Great idea Looking forward to seeing them all.

bud · ~*Service Worker*~

My fear and triggers have embarrassingly deep roots and I'm still processing and reprocessing them as I whittle them down, handing the shreds to my HP. It's easier to remain centered and "myself' for shorter (versus longer) durations with someone I don't trust. I have found it very difficult to keep an opened mind when in the thick of constant abusive bombardment from my exAH. I have found detachment by no contact works well for me. Recently, I had to face some of my triggers and found that my fears are annoying but not based on fact. I do find it helpful to remind myself to keep to the facts, because feelings can often lie.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

I will share my true feelings directed by that part of the Serenity Prayer "Courage to change the things I can" and also guided by "Say what you mean, mean what you say and don't say it mean". I must hear my own voice stand up for myself and then I must move away from the source of trouble. If I linger I'm still in it and I don't want to continue to be still in it. I don't always get that perfect and then our program isn't a perfect practice and so I follow "I do the best with what I have" and continue to love unconditionally. I give my opponent margin and mercy and empathy and compassion cause they are not the perfect storm or monster...they are almost exactly like me mind, body, spirit and emotions and if they have been drinking...brain dead. After I say what I need to say I get out of the way. Keep coming back cause this works when you work it...(((((hugs))))) smile

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Unconditional love, real true love is what i offer my son now and only through alanon tools. All that fear filled love, manipulative love, controlling and fixing, fear based love is the love i had to give before alanon.

Detachment with love means i allow him his dignity to live how he chooses and learn from his consequences as any god intended. It hurts to know hes hurting, that wont ever change but i dont show him my hurt, it belongs to me and is mine to deal with. Before, i would be telling him how i feel and what his choices were doing to me and he must stop for me. Me, me, me.

let go and let god means i am firmly back in my place as just one person. I cant see round corners so when my son is in crisis i use this tool and know that there is a bigger picture here and this situation my son is in will be of benefit to him even though its painful for him and for me to watch. Hes got his own higher power and im not it. This is an ego check, im not god, i dont know whats good for another person, just because i think something is bad and hard and painful is it really? Could i possibly be wrong? Of course, im only human with many flaws. I can sleep at night with this one in my mind and heart. Again, its a fight against me, me, me.

live and let live, so hes an alcoholic, you didnt cause it and you cant control it or cure it, so the choices you have are try the impossible, try to fix, control him, it wont ever work but you can keep trying until, your mental and physical health begin to deteriorate due to the stress and pain, you will most likely die younger than you should leaving behind a baby alcoholic who doesnt have a clue how to live i the big bad world without his granny.

or, alanon, i mean surrendering your old tbinking, how has that thinking been working for you so far? Give it up, open your mind and learn how to think this way, what have you got to loose. Its not survival of the fittest, its survival of the sanest. I plan to survive, i am not letting addiction take me down, im determined about that and thats the best gift i can ever give my son. Im no longer the poor, poor, miserable, all affected mother i was that relyed on him to live in a way that made me happy. Sorry this is so long but your questions were my questions too at first so im answering my old questions too.x

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Had I not gone through what I did with my alcoholism:

I would not be as grateful for where I am at now. I would not be as good a counselor. I would not be able to help other sick and suffering alcoholics. I wouldn't have the relationships I have. I wouldn't have the spirituality I have. I would never have been led to recovery in the first place and I wouldn't be blessed with AA, Alanon, and all of you.

So, yes...I suffered. I'm sure my parents hated watching me suffer. The last of my grandparents passed when I was 25 or so and thankfully I don't think they ever saw or knew that I had a drinking problem. By that age I was really just binge drinking every weekend. BUT - it was my path and I turned my struggle into my strength. Prior to age 36 - If any of you saw me in action, you would have winced, particularly in the last couple of years. So when I see people still out there drinking and when I think about an alcoholic that is so young...I do know they are playing with fire and that they might not get to recovery. However, it could be that they just have to learn whatever it is they need to the hard way. Only God knows. I used to also be mad at God and wonder why all this was done TO ME. Recovery taught me that it was all done FOR me so I could get to where I needed to be.

I'm only sharing this because it may help some of you to know that the purpose of someone's suffering wont always make sense, but it isn't always 100 percent negative. It may be just part of their journey so it's not worth it to curse God or what is when you don't know the master plan. Better to squeeze as much joy out of your own life and pray that "his" (or however you view your HP's) will be done.

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

On a practical level

I have come to learn that I can not be fully myself with AH and there are parts of myself that are best shared elsewhere. Those are mostly the vulnerable bits and the emotional support.

I also take myself back to a time when I felt fully myself (for me that sometimes means that I feel like a teenager

) and I remember how I felt then and think about why and then I try to replicate some of those thoughts in my present.

On a spiritual level I agree with Pinkchip - I have been through some experiences that I don't like and they have tested me. However I think that life experiences are there to teach us and finding the best way of using those experiences in a positive way is how I would like to grow.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Ohno, thank you for this thread, sister. The love and wisdom being poured out here by each and every poster has my whole being on fire with gratitude for them, for you, for the power of this program and the genuine care that all are showing you. You are such a fine and glorious example, all, of acceptance of our powerlessness over this god-awful disease and the willingness to live one day at a time with help of our HP, this program, and one another. (((All and our four-footed family members, too)))

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

For me, I have to keep things as simple as possible because I can easily get spinning in my head. My true self is, yet, unknown to me completely. I get snippets of my true self...what I know to be true is I can share/be my true self without saying a word, saying a few words such as "this does not work for me" or sharing many words, if I choose. When my husband was using, I learned to say no words or few words, and that is what worked for me. With my son, I do the same thing. I do not owe anyone any of my words or company. If I don't feel safe sharing the most vulnerable parts of me, I don't share and I am good with that choice, as it is my choice.

Through al anon and additional work I do, I have a good foundation of my true self and to the best of my ability I live from that place. This is a wonderful post, thank you.....

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Pinkchip, thank you for your take on this. It puts it in its right perspective, for me as a mother. we can actually reach the place where we are grateful that through alcoholism we have been led to a program that the whole world would benefit from, alcohol or not. Some religions, i think its hinduism actually welcome the bad times because the challenges are where the growth is. There are worse things than alcoholism, cant believe im saying that and i cant think of any right now but if i was your mother pinkchip then i know that i would be grateful you went through what you did because look at the great wee guy you are now.look at all the people who are being helped because of your struggles.x

ohno · Senior Member

Thank you. This morning I am having hurt feelings because he didn't wish me a Happy New Year or even "like" my wish to him on FB. It feels passive-aggressive - don't know if it is because I didn't go rushing to him a couple of days before when he called me about some stuff in a storage unit or "other." It triggered my feelings of being unloved, unwanted, unappreciated.

Yes, me, me, me. "Relationships" with alcoholics are so one-sided and this is an example of something I can't share with him - so much about "I did this for you, I loved you, etc." and you can't even say Happy New Year to me on FB. It also makes me question his motives when he texts: "I love and miss you," followed by a phone call asking me to take him to the storage unit. And he is and has been very argumentative and volatile with me when I see him (this has been a pattern for years - I was scapegoated in the family, so he was trained to not respect me and I didn't have boundaries and didn't know he was an alcoholic, so always just thought he was going through teenage rebellion because I was in a position to tell him what to do, etc.)

It's all very confusing to me.

-- Edited by ohno on Saturday 3rd of January 2015 01:53:40 PM

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

My AS is the number one reason I stayed with this program and work it. He has been the catalyst for my own growth and although I hate the fact that he has gone through so much hell in his lifetime, I choose to understand that one of my children - or both - were probably the only treasures in my lifetime who could bring me to my knees in agony and allow what is to happen in me, happen, with a minimum of fighting it or succumbing to it. As PC states, it is all for us and that is a truth that I can agree with wholeheartedly. I don't like it. It hurts. But I didn't like childbirth either - the second time was harder than the first because I knew what came next - and yet - I would still say "yes" to let it be done to me according to Your Will. I cannot make my son well. I cannot make my daughter any different than she is either or my grandson. I can agree to be the best I can be and let growth begin with me one day at a time.

I agree with you, elcee, that PC (together with our other double winners) help us focus on what can be when our loved ones decide to make changes for themselves. I also believe that those of us who are spouses, parents, children, friends of As can learn to humbly acknowledge and share what is wise and true in our own healing process. We were sick and didn't know it or we did know it and decided we were going to do something about it or continue more earnestly on the road of healing and health. Our As helped us learn the truth and helped us stay on the path that is ours to walk into continued liberation, celebration and/or reconciliation, peace and wholeness.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Saturday 3rd of January 2015 03:38:12 PM

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

Your ongoing meetings and sponsorship will bring you peace, ohno. I wobble, then I embrace the 12 steps.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Grateful, i agree that its our children that have the power. I spent years with alcoholism but it was the pain in my son that brought me to my knees finally surrendering my will. Im grateful to him for that. He spent a long time blaming himself for his dad and i splitting but i have tried to thank him. He refused to live and fit in with the denial in our home and tbis brought it all to crisis point. He has been a gift to me, spurring change and bringing the truth out into the light. Hopefully he will have that power for his own life.x

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