He's moving out but how long should I wait? - Al-Anon Family Group

callmemara · Veteran Member

He's moving out but how long should I wait?

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Just a suggestion that worked well for me and many others? Hook up with the Al-Anon Family Groups tighter than you were hooked up with him and start that relationship for your own peace of mind and serenity. in support (((((hugs))))) smile

Newlife girl · ~*Service Worker*~

hello. welcome. To give you a direct response...my opinion is to observe him for a minimum of one year. Actions are louder than words. i moved out of my home in March. my husband is an alcoholic. I havent seen any change. it's all words and no action. just sit back and observe. go to Al anon. the program is for you. it will help you detach from him and take care of yourself. be strong.

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

From my experience, this is a stage that alcoholics typically go through. Their manipulations to keep us have failed, and they raise their manipulative game to try to keep the status quo. They may well believe what they say about changing and recovering and all, but I don't believe the disease believes it. It wants what it wants - to keep drinking and keep everything else easy and in place.

That's my experience from having lived it and from having watched many others go through it.

You do not have to keep your word about sticking in the relationship if he goes to AA. If he really wants recovery, he will go to AA or another recovery program whether or not you stay or go. If he doesn't want recovery, he won't stick with it just because you asked him to. Either way, you are not obligated to stick by something you said once when things seemed different to you. That just traps you and doesn't do him any good. Don't feel obligated by that for a minute.

Sure, it's hard to say No to someone who is crying and begging. That is precisely why they are crying and begging. They want things to stay the same. They want there to be no consequences for their actions. But if he really wants to have a good relationship with you, the doors of AA are open to him, and he can do the 1-2 years' work to get stable and sober and fit to think about relationships again. Then you can allow him to get close again. Watch what he does, not what he says.

glad · ~*Service Worker*~

I have felt your pain and confusion as many here have!

Just an observation, we get so torn up about promises we made, if our behavior is "fair" and the (false) golden rule: I am a failure if this relationship doesn't work out"!

Ever notice an alcoholic be so worried vows or the "right" thing to do when it made their life miserable.. I don't think I have.

Love encouragement and again seeing my life replayed in your post!

Sounds like your question was do I put my emotional finger back in the fire? I did and was burned many times, do whatever you have to do to get the end result you want for your life! Don't let your good intentions from the past keep you from making decisions you know are better for YOU now!

-- Edited by glad on Friday 2nd of January 2015 03:27:06 AM

robinfl · Member

Mattie wrote:
From my experience, this is a stage that alcoholics typically go through. Their manipulations to keep us have failed, and they raise their manipulative game to try to keep the status quo. They may well believe what they say about changing and recovering and all, but I don't believe the disease believes it. It wants what it wants - to keep drinking and keep everything else easy and in place.
That's my experience from having lived it and from having watched many others go through it.
You do not have to keep your word about sticking in the relationship if he goes to AA. If he really wants recovery, he will go to AA or another recovery program whether or not you stay or go. If he doesn't want recovery, he won't stick with it just because you asked him to. Either way, you are not obligated to stick by something you said once when things seemed different to you. That just traps you and doesn't do him any good. Don't feel obligated by that for a minute.
Sure, it's hard to say No to someone who is crying and begging. That is precisely why they are crying and begging. They want things to stay the same. They want there to be no consequences for their actions. But if he really wants to have a good relationship with you, the doors of AA are open to him, and he can do the 1-2 years' work to get stable and sober and fit to think about relationships again. Then you can allow him to get close again. Watch what he does, not what he says.

Well said Mattie!

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

My x did everything I wanted him to do after we were separated. He was still an addict and an alcoholic and an abuser. Didn't change a thing for me. My desire was to live in peace and not with an active A. He went to a rehab for 1 month. That was all he ever did and died at 51 of a heart attack which may have been due both to his diet and his drug use. I was glad I had reached done and stayed done. I probably would be dead today if I hadn't. The disease is cunning, baffling and powerful. It knows exactly how to push our buttons. Checking my motives, setting and keeping my own goals, refusing to let anything get in the way of what I wanted for me and my minor children helped me avoid being sucked back into what was a hidden agenda in my x's external changes that did nothing for the interior issues. Fast forward 21 years post divorce when he died, even if he had worked a program, I had grown so much, we still weren't equally yoked. I never regretted my choice to divorce him and stay divorced. The disease was operative in him until the day he died. He just mellowed a bit because he was older and he was still an addict and an alcoholic.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 2nd of January 2015 08:38:14 AM

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Mara, you don't need to apologize or feel at all guilty for initially saying you would stay together if he got help. That was before you knew and assessed how serious his alcoholism was and that it was not going to respond to that agreement. Also, it was before you had as much alanon participation and knowledge that you now need your space to heal even IF he is to get into recovery. Furthermore, HE probably needs to live on his own to learn to function like a grown up and to deal with his own crap so him moving out will be good for his recovery too, though he wont see it that way I'm sure.

I feel for you....In support...

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Its not easy but if its what you want then its the truth of the situation. What is the alternative, a lie basically which is not good for you because we only get one life if you dont want to be with him then being with him will waste everyones time and make you resentful. As for him, he wants what he wants and if you bend to just give him what he wants then the whole thing is built on dysfunction from the start. If your truly done then tell him straight and he will get over things and so will you quicker than prolonging the agony.

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

And you can change your mind on the 30 days...he is creating more hell for you with his desperate behaviors. If he was serious about recovery, he would go without all of the drama. I found it best not to listen to the words.

Jackie11 · ~*Service Worker*~

What do you want?

Do you want to see if he's really changed?

Do you want to watch and see if his actions speak louder than his words?

What are you afraid of?

You have been on the merry go round, and you have stepped off, now where do you want to go?

My experience:

I moved all of my belongings out of our house 2/4/14. My AH came home to a letter and the keys. I hesitantly agreed to joint counseling in March. Before that could begin he had to complete 90/90. Before his 90/90 was complete I told him that I wasn't going to do counseling, why, because his actions spoke much louder than his words and his words were pretty awful too. That was in May.

He has continued to try and convince me of change and love and more chances, while planning a future with his new girlfriend.

When he contacted me on Christmas, after I had already given him the instructions not to contact me further, I told him if he contacted me one more time I would send his girlfriend all the texts he had sent me since October. Fortunately I have not heard from him since.

I made sure that I found a home Al-Anon meeting. I made sure I got a new sponsor, since I had moved to a new city when I left.

So I'll ask the same questions that I started with:

What do you want?

Do you want to see if he's really changed?

Do you want to watch and see if his actions speak louder than his words?

What are you afraid of?

You have been on the merry go round, and you have stepped off, now where do you want to go?

In support!

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Dont you think change is a myth when its about change for someone else? Its not real change, its superficial. So if you say to him, you have got a year to change and then il get back with you. I think the very idea of that is going to impede real lifel long meaningful change. I mean if you are telling someone to change then you are manipulating that person first of all. Then the person might make surface changes designed for your eyes while the inside stuff is ignored. What i know about change is only through my own experience. I changed for me because i had got to a low low point once too often and i had enough of learning my own will and my own efforts were not working. Then i made a conscious decision to get help for me, my insides. How can anyone change for another person, its only words with no real meaning behind it. Watching to see if someone else has changed to your satisfaction is crazy, who do you think you are to judge another? And also while you are watching doesnt that mean you are completely ifnoring your own disease and shortcomings so are therefor expecting change while stagnating in your own progress.

callmemara · Veteran Member

Mattie wrote:
From my experience, this is a stage that alcoholics typically go through. Their manipulations to keep us have failed, and they raise their manipulative game to try to keep the status quo. They may well believe what they say about changing and recovering and all, but I don't believe the disease believes it. It wants what it wants - to keep drinking and keep everything else easy and in place.
That's my experience from having lived it and from having watched many others go through it.
You do not have to keep your word about sticking in the relationship if he goes to AA. If he really wants recovery, he will go to AA or another recovery program whether or not you stay or go. If he doesn't want recovery, he won't stick with it just because you asked him to. Either way, you are not obligated to stick by something you said once when things seemed different to you. That just traps you and doesn't do him any good. Don't feel obligated by that for a minute.
Sure, it's hard to say No to someone who is crying and begging. That is precisely why they are crying and begging. They want things to stay the same. They want there to be no consequences for their actions. But if he really wants to have a good relationship with you, the doors of AA are open to him, and he can do the 1-2 years' work to get stable and sober and fit to think about relationships again. Then you can allow him to get close again. Watch what he does, not what he says.

Mattie-

I said it on Monday when I wrote him the letter. I said he needed to move out and he would do xyz if he wanted this to work. I wish I hadn't said that just a few days ago. I like someone else too, which doesn't help.

Breakingfree · ~*Service Worker*~

My exAH did the same thing and stayed sober for 30 days and when I still was just over all the drama he went back to drinking and I started my new life. They will find recovery on their own with or without you if they are serious about it. My exAH tells me that he will do it when he is ready, I met him when he was 20 years old and in the marine corps already drinking daily and well on his way to being an A and now he just turned 40 and well still on the same exact track. I am not and I am now happy and living a much less chaotic life. You know when you know, in the 15 years of our relationship we went back and forth a lot. Just do what is right for you, he is his responsibility. If we could do X, Y and Z to keep them sober and it would actually work we all would have by now. Sending you love and support on your journey!

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Mara we are in al anon for us, not them. You have made it pretty clear what you want,what you are tired of and done with.

there is no time limit. Also I have seen this hundreds of time. He is manipulating.

If he does get on program and gets well and uses tools great. if not then he won't. Its more important what you want.

There is nothing that says if you guys get it together later, you cannot have him come back. But we know, they do better on program on their own. Allow him the dignity to figure it out.

Good for him, hope he can get on the program. Now you can heal, get feeling better and work on your own serenity. You are not his counselor, you do not have to have updates etc from him. Its his disease, he can figure it out.

You deserve a breather from this horrible disease. hugs honey!!

Jen61 · ~*Service Worker*~

Actions speak louder than words. I have heard that most A's are very co-dependent. So glad your house is in your name! You need to do what is best for YOU only, not him. Good luck!

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Good point Jen...not only are many A's codependent, many are just straight up dependent.

bud · ~*Service Worker*~

Your post resonates. It's ok to choose living ODAT, making the right choice for you each day as you see fit. I have often felt that my exAH stood by watching and only extended a hand when I was near drowned or drowned. The bare minimum and the tiny crumb that was powerful enough to instill self-doubt. I have felt this was part of the codependent dynamic. Although I haven't seen it occur often, I have seen a few men graced by HP and very slowly turn around over a period of years and work a strong program. My exAH, sadly, is not one of these men.

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