The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
New to the board, but not new to living with an AGF. We've actually been engaged for 2+ years, and unfortunately, her drinking started not long after getting engaged. Things were ok for a while, as I was honestly oblivious to the fact she was becoming an alcoholic (and she admits to hiding it for a long time), but then progressively got worse. We've gone through cycles of breaking up/making up, and each time it seems to get better for a month or two, then back to emotional detachment, non-affection (for either person), then more signs of drinking, lying, etc.
Recently, she found a different program and had been sober for 2+ months, which was a big win, and I was very proud of her. On the relationship side, however, we were going nowhere. We have very similar personalities, and we often "joked" that we were better as roommates than in a relationship. Sadly, this seems to be the case we're getting into now. We had a very emotional day a week or two ago where we both really opened up to each other and ultimately agreed that we need to get some kind of counseling if we want to have a loving relationship and move forward with it (eventually) to marriage. Things felt "good" for a couple of days, we were open, honest, and loving to each other, and then the drinking started again. I KNOW that I can't control her or decide for her if she will drink, but I can't help but feel insulted that she was sober for 2+ months, and then when we finally have some type of "breakthrough" in our relationship where we decide we're really going to work on things, she starts drinking again...
Am I being out of line with this thinking? Is it time to just move on? I honestly was willing to work on things with sober her, but I'm not sure I can go through it all again with finding bottles, finding her passed out on the couch in the middle of the day, etc. All the fun stuff I'm sure we've all dealt with :)
Sorry for the long first post, but it feels good to "get it all out there."
Welcome to MIP. Many of us are also in Al-Anon and learning how to work the program for friends and family members of people who are alcoholics or drinking to excess. One thing that comes to me after reading your post is this question: Do you ever wonder why you're working so hard in this relationship "to have a loving relationship and move forward with it (eventually) to marriage...?" When you consider friendships you've enjoyed for years, did they require a lot of work or something else? In my case, I discovered that I was wanting to be loved by people who had no love to give because they didn't love themselves. It was an issue that developed in childhood and I kept recreating the lacks that I experienced until I didn't do that anymore. I was willing to accept crumbs and would hang on for years because one crumb seemed to be enough to keep me running round and round a hamster wheel until I finally fell off it. Now, when I notice I am yet again working tremendously hard in a relationship, I know it is dysfunctional and will only get increasingly so and stop my work in it and return to relationships that are empowering and easier for me. I don't have to earn love. Love is a free gift that is everywhere if I can stop my striving for it and just allow myself to receive it in whatever form it comes.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Monday 29th of December 2014 08:34:56 AM
-- Edited by grateful2be on Monday 29th of December 2014 08:37:29 AM
Its a merrygoround, a typical relationship with an alcoholic looks just like this for most people. It did for me. You dont mention children and your not married so if knowing what i know now i would run away and out of this and get into alanon to look at what it is about me that means i ended up with this kind of relationship. We dont get an alcoholic by accident. We have issues that mean we are attracted to emotionally distant, needy people i was the same as the alcoholic minus the drinking but i had all the symptoms and i had to get honest and see myself before i made progress. If you got to the alanon website, find a meeting but also have a look for the pamphlet called a merrygoround called denial its a couple or pounds and it explains a lot.
You might be surprised the long term effects of "hanging on" for some people. Things you may think could never happen to you. I was a very successful business person with many great experiences I had interviewed the President of the United States and not blinked an eye just a few years before meeting the A. Gradually I died inside while with him and was so broken for so long, not just because I was sad for the alcoholic. I walked around crying uncontrollably for a couple of years after we split, I felt like such a failure because I spent 7 years working daily on developing any kind of happiness with him, in the meantime my life became broken down financially, relationships with family and my own self image suffered, I believed his lack of emotional connection was my fault (this was the most toxic thing that messed up everything else). I could not tell where his behavior ended and mine began (like your saying you "both" feel emotionally detached) and I believe the alcoholics want it that way to avoid facing how toxic their drinking is to a family/ couple.
I've seen people die, I've seen people who loved alcoholics end up in mental hospitals etc.. Alanon can help keep you from going there but it takes daily studies of materials, attending a lot of in person meetings and staying in touch with a sponsor who helps you navigate life daily because it gets so hard.
on the other hand I have a friend who simply got out with the first signs of alcoholism, he skipped the whole trying to fix it part, and he faired much better, keeping his personality, finances and overall well being.
With that said I have heard of a very few who with the daily help of alanon and AA made a relationship work. The choice is yours, I am simply sharing how I feel and what I have seen.
Thanks, all. I could tell quickly just from reading a few posts here that I'm not "alone" in my feelings of being with an Alcoholic. The tough part is that she was not one for a good portion of our relationship, and now it feels as if I don't even know the person that I proposed too. Luckily we don't have children, just a house we own together (and could easily sell) so if we do part ways it won't be hurting anyone but ourselves.
I've brought up my concerns to her about her sudden turn back to drinking, and so far she is just apologetic. Not sure if that will help us move forward with trying to "fix" things or not.
In my experience, apologetic just meant my wife was trying to placate me. Alcoholism will do anything to make you deny, go away, or otherwise continue to let it rule your loved one's life. Until my wife completely surrendered to a rehab and AA, all the words she used were just placating rubbish designed to make me continue to let her use alcohol.
You're doing well for someone who can't tell if he is going somewhere and what speed he is going at the the same time - sorry, can't help the physics joke!
If after reading all these responses your reaction is to say yes but ... (she was not an alcoholic when we met)
or to try to "fix things" ...
YOU are in the right place... People who love alcoholics have many things in common.
The greatest thing we have in common is we are longsuffering to a fault, we love deeply and want desperately to fix the situation ( to help or "fix" the other person).
Alanon can help you make your own decisions about what is right for YOU and NOT suggest you end the relationship or continue but just support you as you learn and grow in general.
the in person meetings are a great way to "take what you like and leave the rest" .
In person meetings last about an hour an are just a group of people with one common thread, they all love someone who is an alcoholic, I was shocked beyond belief at my first meeting when others began to describe exactly what was going on in my life. NOT all were from my same background. ALL were living a life similar to mine.
Here on these boards it may be a little more difficult to feel un biased support but it is here as well.
-- Edited by glad on Tuesday 30th of December 2014 01:15:13 AM
-- Edited by glad on Tuesday 30th of December 2014 01:20:30 AM
Do you ever wonder why you're working so hard in this relationship "to have a loving relationship and move forward with it (eventually) to marriage...?" When you consider friendships you've enjoyed for years, did they require a lot of work or something else? In my case, I discovered that I was wanting to be loved by people who had no love to give because they didn't love themselves. It was an issue that developed in childhood and I kept recreating the lacks that I experienced until I didn't do that anymore. I was willing to accept crumbs and would hang on for years because one crumb seemed to be enough to keep me running round and round a hamster wheel until I finally fell off it.
Hi, welcome , too, I read grateful's post to you and could not agree with it more.....i did the same thing...i kept attaching to emotionally unavailable people b/c thats all i knew in childhood...working alanon showed me that its so much more deep and satisfying to have healthy relationships.....why would you want to marry into an addict who has about 15-20% chance only to stay off the booze....she is walking heartache...really...i hate t be so blunt, but the ones who let people like this go and move on are the ones who keep their heads on straight......this kind of situation will suck you dry, emotionally, mentally, could be financially, usually does eat you up financially, and potential legal problems if you joint own home and she gets drunk, gets into a wreck and the victims she hits sues!!! please go to alanon meetings and THINK about what you are getting into...listen to the others who have been in this and wish to god they were not, but maybe have to stay b/c they have small children and no way to take care of themselves, or maybe a health issue.....the few who stay just b/c they want to, attend alanon all the time to keep their heads about them.....the folks at the meets can guide you and also the literature, steps and just reading the posts here.............
there is a mechanism in you, perhaps way back in your childhood where you have unfinished business that would cause you to put your welfare at risk like this....if i even SEE or THINK a potential partner or friend, or whatever is an alcoholic, I RUN.....i don't think twice about it......i want healthy or i will stay by myself........please give alanon a chance....i did and it saved me from perpetuating my misery, going with the same old sick and needy and emotionally unavailable people.....glad you reached out......i know how you feel, i've been there and when i look back on it, i am sooo grateful that i got into alanon and the sick rollar coaster rides stopped.......
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Grateful, that really struck a chord with me, love should be easy and if theres struggle then its a sure way of telling its dysfunctional. I so get that. Its the whole god's will in step 3, to me, its like saying that while its smooth and easy then its meant but when it gets rough and jaggy its time to back off because if needs to be forced it really needs to stop.
this is the story of my life, forcing relationships, this deep rooted need for things to be the shape i want them to be and if they didnt fit the more i pushed. It islike a hamster on a wheel going nowhere and the things we tell ourselves to allow the journey to co tinue gojng round and round is amazing. Anyway, thank you grateful, this was good for me to read today,x
Grateful, that really struck a chord with me, love should be easy and if theres struggle then its a sure way of telling its dysfunctional. I so get that. Its the whole god's will in step 3, to me, its like saying that while its smooth and easy then its meant but when it gets rough and jaggy its time to back off because if needs to be forced it really needs to stop. this is the story of my life, forcing relationships, this deep rooted need for things to be the shape i want them to be and if they didnt fit the more i pushed. It islike a hamster on a wheel going nowhere and the things we tell ourselves to allow the journey to co tinue gojng round and round is amazing. Anyway, thank you grateful, this was good for me to read today,x
me, 2, el-cee.....now i see the point but it has taken (in feb) it will be 13 years of recovery to see it......i had to force..push...now i don't....oh yea, at times things can be tough, but not this kind of tough....the relationship, be it lover, family, friend should not be a friggin head bashing against a brick wall........grateful, you hit the ball out of the park w/your post.........thanks...
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
My HP, a masterful sponsor and this program have certainly worked for me in identifying some of the root causes of my own dysfunctions and codependency. Still making progress with all of you!
I very much liked what you wrote as well Grateful. I remember in my past relationships...particularly the 7 year one I had with another alcoholic - I actually stated that I felt the relationship was moving forward because when he yelled at me or turned mean drunk on me, I "grew a backbone" and started yelling or arguing back rather than being reduced to a crying mess each time. That is a sure sign of relationship progress right? LOL! I have 2 masters degrees and they are in psychology and lots of courses in marital therapy and relationship counseling and such... yet I honestly thought this was a healthy response?! Rather than having simple boundaries about what was and was not acceptable and sticking by it, I BS'ed myself into thinking that my response could be altered to make any behavior of another person "workable."
The person I am with now and am married to is the only person whom I would not change a single thing about. It is the only time in my life that I have had a relationship that was this easy. Through pain and many failed relationships (having moved in and out with 4 different partners in life - all relationships over 4 years at least) - I learned that if you are that far off the same page at the START or in the first couple years of a relationship, that is a RED FLAG. The time to be picky and say "Nope. You are not the one for me. Too many issues" is much better earlier on. I tanked myself repeatedly in relationships by being infatuated, overly-forgiving, and attention craved at the start and then being jaded and picky later on. Turns out, the time for me to be taking note of these things was in the beginning and not as much later. I never let the right one even come along because I collected losers and refused to kick them to the curb out of my own fears and neediness.
I was told by my sponsor years before and I had to go out and still have some more failed relationships to learn that "the person I will be happiest with is the one I don't want to change at all." It really is that simple. There is enough to life and enough that I want to do for ME with MY hobbies, MY career, MY spirituality, and MY journey such that I can only be with someone who is compatible with traversing that road WITH ME. Screwed up people with issues who take me off my path and/or put me on THIER path. NOPE. Been there, done that...way too many times. Wasted years of my life doing that. I would not wish that on you but I had to learn my lessons the hard way too...
Hi and welcome. I have learned from Al Anon and the people here, that it shouldn't take so much work to hold a relationship together. I moved out of my house in March because my husband is an alcoholic. We got married in 2002 and I saw his drinking steadily get worse. Alcoholism is a disease that only gets better with complete abstinence and working a program...AA. When you mentioned she started drinking again when you thought you had made an improvement in the relationship....it reminds me of when my AH would drink for no reason at all. It didn't matter if we were getting along or not getting along....the drinking happened even when we were on our way out the door to take him to the ER because he had been drinking for 5 days and in bed the whole time. He tried to run to his hiding place and get one more drink in!!! That was a turning point for me...I saw the life I was going to have...and I decided I didn't want it anymore. I, too would feel betrayed when he would drink after he said he wouldn't. The problem is...alcoholism doesn't go away.
Wow, so many of these posts hit close to home. Maybe it is my lack of understanding of what being an alcoholic really is, but I still have trouble wrapping my mind around when she drinks "for no reason at all." I know that trouble in our relationship was at least part of the reason she drank, hence in my (somewhat logical) brain, I assumed a better relationship would mean she would stop drinking. I'm starting to realize that only she can help herself if she truly wants to get healthy and I can only support her. If it comes to the point (and it's getting close) where I can't watch her go down this hole anymore, I'll have to walk away and take care of myself.
There is a reason for her drinking. An alcoholic drinks because they're an alcoholic. They don't drink because of you or me. We didn't cause it. We can't control it. We can't cure it. We are powerless over the disease and the person with it. Part of my disease was to keep asking the question why. What now? was much more helpful. The answer to that question was to cut my losses and move on before it got worse.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 2nd of January 2015 05:44:58 PM
Good insights heisenberg. It does seem you have some misguided ideas about alcoholism. Of course she will tell you all the bs reasons she drinks but as an alcoholic now in recovery 6 plus years, I can tell you the simplest reason is just what grateful2be said "because she is an alcoholic." The only other slightly more complex answer I would give is that alcoholism is disease in which the sufferer lacks coping skills to deal with stess, is emotionally immature, and unable to accept reality so they engage in maladaptive coping and self medicating which then feeds into a vicious circle where they drink themselves out of even more coping skills and supports...getting worse and worse...not better. That is the most concise explanation of alcoholism I can give. It has NOTHING do do with you or the relationship. I'm sure she has feelings about the relationship and she can't handle feelings so she drinks but that is something that would present itself in any relationship. As far as drinking for no reason: Alcoholics don't need a reason and they are sick in the head in ways not readily observable to you so you won't know what the triggers are and she probably doesn't either. Some of it is that it is just a plain old addiction and she now is hooked. Also, I highly doubt she became alcoholic in the time knowing you. I bet if she was honest, this pattern existed before. I know that for me, before getting sober, I would be on good behavior in new relationships for a few months. I was drunk on infatuation and using the relationship as booze. When the novelty wore off, I couldn't hide my alcoholic true colors and I am willing to bet that is what happened here with her also.
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My HP, a masterful sponsor and this program have certainly worked for me in identifying some of the root causes of my own dysfunctions and codependency. Still making progress with all of you!