The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I made a comment to AH while we were having tea in bed this morning. I said 'I think that our tenant is probably not going to renew their lease in March.' (We have a flat that we rent out). AH said 'I'm not going to worry about it,' and then proceeded to talk about it in his monopolising voice. It was not a conversation, although to be honest I didn't give it enough time to become one. Why? Because I had silent tears (of frustration?) rolling down my cheek. AH's reaction was 'now what have I done to upset you?' And he stormed out of the room. When I saw him half an hour later he asked 'what happened there?' I said 'I say something and then you drone on.' Not nice, but it is how I have experienced these early morning conversations for a long time now.
So I've cleaned the windows and our living room and now I'm looking at why I cry instead of simply asking that he slows down a bit and perhaps speaks more softly when we are in bed. I am scared of what I see when I ask myself why I don't like the sound of his voice.
I am ok with what I said, it was my truth, but I am sorry that it did not come from a more accepting place. I am a bit angry that AH walked away from my tears, that hurt and, together with a fear that this communication problem will not be fairly addressed, it is stopping me from approaching AH to make amends. The result? We are both probably feeling hurt, frustrated and unheard. And we have both retreated to our respective dens.
I'm off to take the dog for a walk in the sunshine. Thank you for listening.
Milkwood, what you have described here is how my husband and I used to interact. It was hell for me and probably for him, too. I hope your walk was healing.....
That very much sums up most of my attempts at conversation with A over the last few years. I feel your frustration and tears. In recent months, when he wanted to "try" and was more receptive to hearing my grievances, at the top of the list was the fact that he never listens to me and just cuts me off and takes over the conversation turning it to whatever topic he fancies ranting on about. He responded, quite surprised, with 'but you don't listen to me either". I was very surprised to realise he is right and said 'but, but, but, at least I PRETEND to listen to you".
"Oh" he says, nodding sarcastically. "Well that's MUCH better".
Funny, but the thing is after years of being talked over, I have become incapable of listening to him; as soon as he starts to speak I hear fingernails on a blackboard. I find him talking unbearable. I don't have anything helpful to say really other than, I relate and I think it's an understandable way to react to being unheard for years. I'll be interested to see how others suggest applying program tools to the situation. If I was still with A, it would be something I too would need to start approaching differently.
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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
I undertand milkwood, my ex would and still does go on a bit of a rant, he is very closed minded, cant really listen or wont. Its as if they can only think in black and white, no shades of grey or deeper levels. This is one reason why i can only take him for about 2 to 3 hrs max. Anymore than that and my insanity comes out full force. Im not sure of the tools needed. It could be just like you have planned, getting outside, shake him off, get your needs met in other ways, unless he actively recovers through a program its unlikely he is capable of being what you want or need him to be. The key is stop needing. Like got a whole lot better for me when i accepted the limitations of people with untreated alcoholism.
Great subject. My dry ah and i lost any way to interact on any level Except non verbal toward the end of our marriage. Why are they so Hard to talk to? My ah is not emotionally sober. He is a thinker and very smart but not emotionally, especially toward his wife. My needs went unmet or were unimportant but his were a priority.
He had loads of Resentments toward me. They kept building never to be resolved. He could not see his part in any of our troubles especially Concerning intimacy. That subject was the root problem in our Marriage and it is the reason it ended. Intimacy in a non sexual Way, trusting yourself and feelings with your partner. Basically Trusting them with your inner self. Bad treatment by them errodes any Possiblity of intimacy in a marriage. How can you trust someone that wont validate how you feel or think? How can you cuddle up and Relax with that person. We had a good marriage For a number of years but trust,resentments and hurts kept moving In to destroy intimacy.
He would talk over me not consider my opinion and wondered why i would Just rather read a book than talk to him. He loved to talk about things i was Not interested in. My ah also had an aggressive side to him that i found Intimidating to be close to. It made me nervous, he took offense to that. Sorry to ramble but i have been thinking about this very subject.
-- Edited by Mirandac on Tuesday 23rd of December 2014 08:27:16 AM
Oh, its that common then!!! Thank you all for recognising my experience. I really appreciate being able to share my vulnerabilities with you.
Mirandac, I agree that it is intimacy killing, so sad.
El-cee, thats interesting - AH's brother says the same thing. I think that in the past I had more outside influences and did not notice what was going on.
Thanks Melly - you came to mind as I was enjoying my mountain walk, I was thinking to myself 'this is a Melly walk', a bit like those you have on the beach, only with more ups and downs I imagine!
It was a wonderful three hour walk - I took a new route up the mountain and dog and I went past a fox hole. We sat by a waterfall and I think all of that ozone (is it ozone at a waterfall??) went to doggie's head - he was racing around and 'being dog' which of course had me prancing along with him. Sunny and windy, my favourite combination. Dog very muddy! Now for a nice cup of tea!!
Oh, I could have written word for word what Mel wrote! I would state a grievance and it would turn into a 3 hour long diatribe about how awful his life is and that's why he was mean to me or our son or whatever. He'd list the ways that life sucked and then go point by point through it and then get mad if I didn't sit and hang on every word. By 2 AM, I would try to wrangle myself out of the conversation but then he'd get hurt and act like a victim so I'd sit there and keep listening. I totally let his emotions manipulate me and control me.
And, what Miranda wrote applies to me, too. So sorry you are struggling, Milkwood, but I do hope your walk was refreshing!
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Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
I'm not an A and I can drone on when I'm thinking aloud and trying to sort out my thoughts. I catch myself doing that. I'm not even aware of it at the time. Has nothing to do with the person speaking and everything to do with how my mind works when I'm feeling uncertain, frightened or insecure. Learning to keep the energy inside is a process for me. If the person listening cried, I'd be surprised and I'd wonder what I did when I was only thinking out loud about something that was concerning me. Then, I'd feel bad because I didn't anticipate any tears based on what I was saying and that would add to the discord.
Hi Milkwood I can identify with your topic as well as the shares. In order to protect myself and not connect with people I use to choose a subject about someone else and then let the other speak. Alanon has taught me that I should pick my topics carefully as well as where I chose to speak about the subject. I examine my motives for introducing the topic, choose an appropriate setting (not the bed) and then proceed
In an intimate setting I always keep the focus on myself and keep it about me. If the other try to change the conversation I can easily validate myself and bring it back to me . That works
i go with grateful and betty.....no discussions in bed, pick a neurtral spot...i keep focus on me, drone out loud if i want to, as i search formy own solution and also i , if iwas married to an A, (not gonna go there again) i would do the "talking" "sorting out feelings" for me, and no expectations of equal convo with an A......if it went like that in the past, why did you think it would be different now???? you know what he is like, we can only change ourselves.......i hear ya and i get it, but working alanon does / can teach us new ways of taking care of us and letting them live their own lives.......i see detachment needed her, keeping the focus on me and i also see need for meetings....folks in the meets can relate, like we do here.....AH is in his own world and many times sober spouse is not in that world.......its sad....but through alanon we can change ourselves....sending you support and encouragement
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
(((((Hugs))))) I'm listening, thank you to my wise friends for good advice.
I agree Grateful - it is a bit flummoxing to have someone cry when you are just thinking out loud!!
((MW)) Great topic and other's gave great support. I relate to your post and wanted to just add that recently I've been paying close attention when I feel fear from some one's voice. I've been asking myself what it is that I'm reacting to- for me, I'm noticing that it's tied into some expectation or association that is not currently present.. just like many of my fears.
