Will ABC stores confirm suspicions? - Al-Anon Family Group

BruceKent · Newbie

Will ABC stores confirm suspicions?

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Trust your gut and welcome to MIP. Others will greet you. We have learned that asking questions of an active A is like whistling and calling "Come here, boy" to a rock. Many of us did what you are doing until we attended Al-Anon meetings, read the literature, and later found a good sponsor in the program to help us work the steps. The program suggests attending 6 meetings before you decide if Al-Anon is for you. It is also suggested that we make no major changes in our relationships (except in the case of abuse) for at least 6 months after we become active in Al-Anon. We have discovered that we didn't cause, can't control and can't cure the disease of alcoholism or the person with it but we can get help in Al-Anon for ourselves whether or not the alcoholic continues to drink. The disease is an equal opportunity destroyer. It not only can kill its host. It can kill those of us who love the person with the disease. Al-Anon is the antidote for those of us who can keep an open mind and learn to focus on ourselves and not on the alcoholic who will do what they will do. We have no power over that. Keep coming back here, too. We get it. We've been there.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Monday 8th of December 2014 07:57:23 PM

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

BruceKent wrote:

I feel lost, guys and gals. I'm running out of options. If I leave, I feel like it's sending her to rock bottom. But I can't live with the lies, the half-truths, and the suspicions. I don't know what to do...

-- Edited by BruceKent on Monday 8th of December 2014 06:46:39 PM

Hi and welcome to MIP.....i would hold off on the marriage until shes been sober for a looong time.....this is not a bookmakers dream relationship right now....I understand , you love her....but just remember this....until she gets into AA and STAYS off the stuff, she is big time at risk for relapse.....if you leave and send her to rock bottom, whose doing the "sending"???? SHE did this to her self...you are not responsible for anyone but your own well being......no..i can not live with lies, and to me there are no 1/2 truths...either they are honest or they R not.....and if u r suspicious, that is your instints tell you something

are there any face to face alanon meetings near you??? i would go to 90 meets in 90 days (you) so that you can get grooved in what you cant take care of (You) and what you are powerless over (her).......if she does not get help and stay sober, i mean 4ever, she will eventually lose her mind, health, slow death awaits her and its ugly to live through........she craves the stuff and will do anything to get it unless she is in AA constantly and staying sober....its a deal where she cannot be sneaking it or sipping here and there, that won't work.....when you described her illnesses on your post, i am thinking this is the end of her life if she doesn't get help now and stay sober.....there is no 1/2 way to do this.....and you , i am glad you reached out....i feel for ya, but love will not conquer this...only she can with the help of her power most high and its sober one day at a time.....the more years she can stay sober, the better chance she has of making it, but the relapse rate on addicts is very very high....that is why most of us who have experienced it will not hook up with addicts again....i learned my lesson....i married two of them.....thank goodness for alanon changing my attitude about me where now i know i deserve a better deal then coping w/an addict.......i do hope u can get into some meets, and of course you are in the right place.....sending you support

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

PS - Hitting rock bottom may very well be where she needs to go. Trying to prevent a crisis only helps an alcoholic keep drinking. Al-Anon helps us learn how we are enabling the alcoholic and how to stop enabling the alcoholic, too.

deacon · Senior Member

Welcome Bruce. There is really no way to do this wrong and you will find that you are in the right place. The only thing more I could suggest is that you try to find an alanon meeting and start going on a frequent schedule. You will find they ask you to attend several meetings before making decisions. But they will also give you some coping skills and knowledge.

This I can tell you. You are NOT sending her to rock bottom. SHE is sending herself there and you need some skills so you can avoid her dragging you along in the insanity of alcoholism. Reading your post, I wonder if you love the girl and woman she was, not the person she is now. Because she is sending up red flags all over the place that alcohol is her greatest need. Refusing to use the breathalyzer is a positive indication that she is back to drinking. If you read so many of the entries here, you will see that enabling, turning a blind eye, thinking if you try hard enough things will change, just does not work. An alcoholic has to want to change for themselves and there is nothing you can do really.

I once read the expression, the tyranny of the weak, and how a person with an addiction can actually dictate how stronger people live because they are so good at manipulation. They make their partner feel guilty, feel responsibility, feel empathy. You had no part in causing her addiction, you have no way to cure it and you can't change her no matter how much you love her.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Dear BruceKent Welcome to Miracles in Progress. Thank you for having the courage to share your heart , your fears , and your anxiety with us. Alcoholism is a chronic ,progressive , fatal disease that can be arrested and never cured. It is encouraging that your girlfriend is attempting to find sobriety, as recovery in AA is a huge step towards managing the disease.

We who live with the disease in another , try to cope with the insanity as best we can. Many develop negative attitudes and, coping skills and are filled with anxiety and fear. Al-Anon is a recovery program for all that have shared their lives with an alcoholic. The very good news is that you're not alone Al-Anon holds face-to-face meetings in most communities on a daily basis. The hotline number can be found in the white pages and I urge you to call and attend.

It is here that I learned that I did not cause the alcoholism, cannot control the alcoholism and cannot cure it. Because I was powerless over this disease, I was responsible to keep the focus on myself and re learn how to live my life one day at a time. Face-to-face meetings helped break the isolation caused by the disease and offered a safe environment in which to practice new coping tools. Living one day at a time, keeping the focus on myself, working the steps of recovery I was able to learn to respond and not to react in situations that upset me. With these new tools I regained my self-esteem and self-worth and was able to live life on life's terms.
I urge you to keep coming back here as there is hope and help

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

From my experience, and from observing many others', we typically think we might be paranoid and guessing that they're drinking when they're not. But from my experience, we who are involved with alcoholics typically are still in doubt about the drinking when it would be crystal clear to others.

If there's any doubt whatsoever, she is drinking. That's what alcoholics do. The statistics are that only 15-25% of those who enter recovery stick with it to longterm sobriety. I tell you this not to be depressing, but because for years I believed my A (alcoholic) was on the brink of sobriety and recovery, and all we had to do was to get it going and then we'd have that life of happiness I was dreaming of. I didn't realize how powerful alcoholism is.

Recovery is hard and the early stages are rough on the alcoholic as for everyone around her. The first 1-2 years are especially hard because even sober alcoholics will have mood swings, self-absorption, childish habits, and many other things that make a relationship challenging.

The good news is that this gives us a great opportunity to work on our own recovery - because alcoholism sucks everyone around it into the insanity and our thoughts and actions have also become distorted. So we can look at our own beliefs, caretaking tendencies, and many other things, and emerge with the tools to make our own lives much better.

I hope you'll stick around, and also find a meeting and work on taking care of yourself. As a handy side effect, that will also be the very best thing for her.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

I back what others are saying. I will bet my life she IS drinking. She also is playing off your enabling tendencies. Being a rescuer is not romantic or healthy for you. Please give Alanon a try.

PS: Someone really wanting to get sober would be in daily AA in addition to IOP. They would not need to "find" a meeting after a month. This woman sounds like a hard core alcoholic looking for enabling. Part of her may want to be sober but not enough and you are NOT going to convince her. In fact, she will more likely use you to keep up this pattern.

cloudyskies · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Bruice and welcome to MIP. You have found a bunch of supportive and understanding friends here who know your dilemmas all too well. Alcoholism is a dreadful, progressive disease that affects not only the alcoholic but family and friends of the drinker. I would strongly recommend that you find an Al-Anon group and attend some meetings. You cannot help your alcoholic friend, but you can help you. Al-Anon is a recovery program for the family and friends of an alcoholic.

I am so sorry you are going through this. If you suspect she is drinking, then she probably is. Alcoholics will do their best to hide the evidence. That's the disease. It's cunning and manipulative. Al-Anon will help you learn how to take your focus off your alcoholic and put it on you.

Take care of you and take one day at a time.

Keep coming back.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Also her drinking problem is HERS. What kind of relationship exists where you have to go around to stores and check up and breathalyze someone to trust them?
What about you thinks this is mature love of equals? If you focus on you and go to alanon, you will learn to take care of yourself and stop obsessing, trying to rescue, control, and check up on a sick person in the name of love. That is what alanon is for. Their addiction makes US sick and you rattled off most of the ways it does so. Please also believe I'm saying this out of caring and not criticism.

-- Edited by pinkchip on Monday 8th of December 2014 08:32:01 PM

aquamom23 · Senior Member

Hugs Bruce. I understand you feel tender toward her. She is vulnerable seeming if not fragile. Spiritually we do them no favours by helping. Letting her hit rock bottom, while you are still able to do so without anger and hurt,could be the greatest act of love in these circumstances,both for her and for you. Alcoholism is such a horrible thing for all concerned, and takes us to places where we are simply the human animal in my opinion, running on response to emotion,few of them good. Whatever you come to, I'm glad you reached out, and hope you keep coming back. You are not alone with the places your thoughts lead you, such as asking the abc store for a truth you know deep down. Is that really something you want in a relationship? Living with the discomfort of deception? My ah was a childhood sweetheart too, 17 when we locked eyes, married 12 years and seperate lifetimes later. From here I can say, it was a lot easier getting in than its proving to get out. You are not a bad guy for stepping back from something you didn't cause, cant control nor cure. Glad you are here.

mjferg · Senior Member

I could tell my ex was drinking and lying,I felt it in my gut.I have heard that saying so many times ,go with your gut,I wish I had listened to mine.I could have been spared from living a nightmare.I can only say go with what your gut is telling you to do, and it is talking to you.I realized it didn't matter how much I felt or loved him,I had to save myself.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome to MIP Bruce. One if this is your real name you may want to pic a nic name to protect yourself.

You have found a very safe place.

My situation was a lot like yours. Knew him all my life and loved him, yet circumstance made it so we did not marry till 99. He was very much on a strong recovery program. Very cool guy, musician, gentle, caring, very motivated to be on program. then had a brain surgery, that was that. He woke up a monster.

Your gal is who she is as you see her. Her total package is a struggling, very sick addict. So we focus on you. YOU learn to take care of yourself, allow her the dignity to fall on her own.

We are not their probation officer, parent or counselor. Their disease is their own. She may drink or not. Makes no difference for us as it is her business.

So in Al Anon we learn skills to be as happy as we can and stay with them. keep it the same and get sicker ourselves or we end the relationship.

My AH was very ill. But I was able to use my skills to be with him as long as I could. His disease was none of my business. I cannot control it anyway. bottom, wdrawal whatever is their thing,not mine.

I adored him, let him know i loved him as is. He stopped feeling like he had to hide anything. He did not have to lie anymore. I just loved him.

things were ok for awhile. I do not regret gleaning being with him as long as I could. The monster got too much for me andI had him leave.

If you can distance yourself from her disease, learn to busy yourself when her bad side comes out, and many other skills, if you choose you can be with her as long as you can.

Sadly honey it sounds like she is very much in the last stages of being an addict. She is so very sick. We do them NO favors by doing anything for them.

Its up to you if you want to take her to hospital or whatever. Myself I stopped doing it. They are using us. Addicts are the best at manipulation. onions, mine said it was his deoderant that smelled like alcohol. Believe nothing.

Breathelizer, is a waste of time. We have NO control over what they do. So let it go.

I hope you find meetings to go to. There are meetings here in the chat room too. You can also pm people if you need to talk more private.

Hope you feel welcomed and come back! there is hope, debilyn

Teepee85 · Member

I feel your pain as have been through the same with my partner. I learnt to let him hit rock bottom and not pick him up afterwards.. That was his war to fight. He is now in recovery and I'm finding the need to reach out myself so I attended my first Al anon meeting yesterday. I would encourage you to do the same... Just about everyone understands and has been there before in the very shoes your standing in.
Look after yourself.. I too am a newbie but fast finding a great little community on here full of practical wisdom and advice.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks for the memories Bruce...This is where I came in. I was dating a alcoholic/addict and pretty deeply invested mind, body, spirit and emotions. I found out later that in alcoholism that makes up a commitment and to prove the point I was planning on leaving her and had the speech already made up however this disease is cunning beyond words and it will use all of you until there is nothing left. The last thing I planned was a lunch at my Mom and Step-Dad's and then tell her I was done however while we were at lunch my Alcoholic/addict mentioned out loud to my mom that "Jerry and I are planning on marrying". I had never mentioned that or asked and came to realize later that the disease had sensed I was going to move on and now it said what it said in front of the woman who was responsible for my birth...my Mom and what was I going to say? I was had...done...and made the choice to marry her anyway. I should never have done it in hind sight...and even fore sight because the next 6 years were the most insane I had ever lived including the first addict I had married and the alcoholic I dated in between. Lesson learned? I'm addicted to being with and marrying the women I drink with and I had to stop drinking myself. Along came Al-Anon and I most highly recommend it as quickly as I can and as often and I recommend it the way it was recommended to me and how I followed up on it. 90 meetings in 90 days...I got to 102 or more in that period of time and my whole life changed. You might not have 90 meetings in 90 days available to you so go to as many as you can in that period of time and strive to keep and open mind and follow the suggestions.

How could I get to 90 meetings in 90 days...our area had 439 meetings combined AA/Al-Anon per month. This is a life threatening fatal disease not only for the alcoholic/addicts and also for the family, friends and associates that participate in life with them. You didn't cause this, you cannot control it, you will not be able to cure it. You are not a power greater than alcoholism and its too late trying to be that now cause it pretty well is doing an insanity number on you as it has on all of us. Insanity and/or death are also available to us who do not or did not drink either. Welcome to the board. There are 2 daily meetings available on line here and I recommend them also. In ending let me say that this isn't about your girlfriend being a bad person it is about her being very very sick. Learn as much as you can. In Support. (((hugs))) smile

Breakingfree · ~*Service Worker*~

I am glad you found us here at MIP! Trust your gut and don't let an alcoholic make you feel crazy within, that is most of our stories. You are probably right on about things and even if you can't trust her you can trust yourself and a breathalyzer everytime. I hope you can find some face to face al-anon meetings near you and read some al-anon books like the 3 daily readers; One Day at a Time, Hope for Today, Courage to Change and also a book that helped me a lot was "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews that book pointed out so much about how I was living and made my awareness grow in leaps and bounds. Sending you love and support on your journey!

BruceKent · Newbie

Thank you all for your kind words.

Rest assured, BruceKent is not my real name, it's an homage to Bruce Wayne/Batman and Clark Kent/Superman. I often ask myself what they'd do in this situation... Batman would leave. Superman would probably stay. Unfortunately, I'm neither of those...

I feel incredibly blessed that I found you all, and I'm looking into meetings. I have attempted to go to meetings in the past, but she objects because she believes Al-Anon will just convince me to leave. She has said the same thing about me visiting therapists, though I have gone to mine against her objections.

It's strange, my story sounds really similar to many of yours. It makes me feel less alone. I'm not sure what path to take here, but I feel better about figuring it out. Rest assured, there will be no marriage until I'm 100%. That may drive her away, knowing that her ring isn't coming anytime soon, but it's reality. It has to be.

She depends on me for everything. She's alienated her friends and family (she claims they are her triggers, yet apart, she continues to drink), so I'm her whole support network. Thats why I'm having a hard time grasping the concept of letting her hit true rock bottom. It guts me.

Again, thank you all. I'll be in touch.

Newlife girl · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Bruce. Welcome. Have you tried Al Anon meetings yet? I hope you can go to one. You will find people there that go through the same kind of stuff you are describing. One thing we say in Al anon is "don't keep checking up on the alcoholic." We try to keep the focus on ourselves. We take care of ourselves by reading Al Anon literature, going to meetings and finding a sponsor to help us work the 12 steps.
I left my AH in March. I could see his drinking become worse and worse. I would hunt for bottles. He had a breathalyzer, too and there were times he would want me to help him use it before he went to work!! Looking back at the things I tolerated makes me cringe. We have a child together, so it was hard to leave...but I didn't want her growing up in an alcoholic home. One time I found beer bottles filled with water. He was trying to trick me into thinking he hadn't drank them. Just the other day I was at our house he still lives in. We were showing it to realtors when I thought I smelled alcohol on his breath when he walked by. Then I couldn't decide if it was the realtors cologne or not. My brain started spinning with confusion. I've decided I can't live this way. My AH would tell me he was done drinking, but start drinking again the same day. One time I was taking him to the ER because he had been drinking for 4-5 days and staying in bed the whole time. He asked me to take him. On the way OUT THE DOOR to the hospital, he was trying to get more alcohol to drink!! I had to steer him in the direction towards the door and tell him no...just like he was a big baby.
You can go to the ABC store all you want...she will find alcohol somewhere else if she wants to. You won't be able to keep track of her.
It would be a good idea to examine this relationship and decide if you really want to live this way. I found my AH to be more of a child than a husband to take care of.
Keep coming back!!

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

BruceKent wrote:

She depends on me for everything. She's alienated her friends and family (she claims they are her triggers, yet apart, she continues to drink), so I'm her whole support network. Thats why I'm having a hard time grasping the concept of letting her hit true rock bottom. It guts me.

Again, thank you all. I'll be in touch.

Dear Bruce.........now whose choice is this???? Her alienating all but you??? you are NOT her whole support network....AA should be, AA sponsor should be, but lets talk about what is!!!!! thats an awful and very selfish burden to put on you...making YOU her ownly network of support.....AND if you DONT" let her hit bottom, you may be helping her die by enabling her so she doesn't think shes "that bad" so there fore "I can still drink" and she dies a slow death....the ONLY hope you have of getting her saved is to let her hit rock bottom.....THEN MAYBE she will get help....I am so sorry you got into this b/c its a lose lose situation most of the time....if my partner was only an at best 25% good bet, I would not be betting on them......yea, be compassionate and empathetic, but if you keep "supporting" her the way you are, then she most certainly will get worse and die.......triggers??? i can see that, but her AA folks would not be triggers....she is blaming everyone else but looking at her self.....alcoholics feel its everyone elses fault/ responsibility why they drink....they drink b/c they are an addict who craves the stuff...trust me she would sell you out in a heartbeat for a drink...she will lie, cheat, steal, even bed another man if it means a drink....I know, my mother did this.....she sold her soul to the devil to get that drink.....

depending on you for everything is going to wear you out pretty fast.....she needs to depend on AA and herself if she is ever to be healthy...

Bruce its your choice, we can't advise, we can only tell you what we suffered and you either believe us or not, but i do urge you to get into alanon meets, and find a sponsor to help you grasp the magnitude of what u r getting into here....some people stay with their alcoholic out of financial, or minor children are involved, some can't leave right away, some stay b/c they want to but NONE of them survive it , mentally, without strong alanon program, meets, steps, sponsor, the whole balll of wax....U R gonna need some healthy, experienced alanons to get you through this if you stay with this woman.......you sound like such a nice, responsible man, I am so sorry that this is the partner you chose....if i get another he will be a nice, sober one who has a healthy love of self so he can love me in a healthy way.....Just saying...........sending you support

Jill · ~*Service Worker*~

You are not alone.

What is ABC store? (evidently everyone else is familiar with it)

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

liquor store. Often times when state regulates liquor it all comes from a store called ABC store. Even in ones where liquor isn't government regulated, there are still some left over ABC stores often times.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

I've never heard of it either, Jill. So, you're not alone. It appears neither of us frequent liquor stores? :<)

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

"Getting Them Sober," by Toby Rice Drew, volume one will tell you all you want to know.

I understand the gut thing. However, its a hard concept to accept, when we are their everything, we are helping the disease to kill them. truth.

We are keeping the disease comfortable so it can use and use and use our loved one.

Better they are homeless, sick, and have no one, so they are soooo miserable they will do anything to quit drinking.

That is what enabling does. Enables the disease to be comfy as our A feeds it.

What would make her want to stop? You house her, pay for everything, baby her, believe her lies, fall for her manipulations. She does not want to go down into the pit alone so she drags you in.

You are killing her by helping her disease. Hey I was where you are. I adored my husband, he had a brain surgery for petes sake, what normal loving wife wouldn't take care of him? he was eating hundreds of pain meds and anti anxiety meds! and then drank too, then got back into heroin!

Are you kidding me???? then I found mip. stopped all the crazy.

I know this sounds mean and cruel. But to me after over 12years, every day working a program of recovery in Al Anon, I have turned my whole life around and am such a better person. I see the disease, I love A's very much. They are so different from non A's. Whole different bug.

They cannot get well if we baby them, impossible. We do no favors carrying a kid around and not allowing them to walk cuz they might fall. Well that fall is what makes them get upright by themselves right?

hugs honey. debilyn

Jill · ~*Service Worker*~

G2B you are right. I've lived in this state almost 4 years. Just recently a houseguest and I were at a grocery store. He pointed out to me liquor is sold in the grocery store. I've been "blind" to that aisle all along. Too funny.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

smile

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Bruce....Kent still have to do the 1st step which is admitting they are powerless over alcohol. Trying to hold power over the disease is a fantasy or as we sometime think...Comical. Hang around recovering people such as Al-Anon and MIP and you will find yourself getting real...by choice. wink

bud · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi BK, I wanted to add another welcome and reassurance that you're in the right place. I'm glad you found us. When seeing your AKA on the message board, it popped into my head that Alanon is my "Bruce- Kent collaboration".

I'm not sure I can add much that the MIP family has not already said. This disease is very powerful, cunning, and baffling. Self-doubt, wishful thinking, and hope often co-mingle as we try to establish better footing in the relationship. Things we know to be true easily fall down a rabbit hole as the distortions and irrationality bend all focus on our sick loved ones through a combination of their lies and manipulations and our attempts to help them. I recently read an analogy of an emergency on an airplane when we're instructed to first put on our own air mask before thinking about someone else. Living with someone with the disease is much too much for most of us to handle alone; Alanon provides the emotional support, new perspectives, and skills from a place of loving compassion and empathy that improve our situation, regardless of what is going on with others- which, in this environment becomes a critical element towards best success for all involved. Keep asking questions and keep coming back- Alanon works!

Newlife girl · ~*Service Worker*~

pinkchip wrote:
liquor store. Often times when state regulates liquor it all comes from a store called ABC store. Even in ones where liquor isn't government regulated, there are still some left over ABC stores often times.

I remember ABC stores in Hawaii. They were like souvenir stores. I must be confused. Hmmmm

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.