The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Today's C2C reading encourages us to forgive rather than to hang on to old hurts, bitterness, resentments. As I progressed in the program, I learned that I reinjured myself by nursing memories of things I'd done that hurt myself and others or what others had done in relationship to me. The actual event happened once or years ago and I was bringing it into my present by going over and over the event in my mind. Sometimes, I recognize that my part in something unpleasant is to bring to the other person what is on my mind or to act in my favor in another way. At other times, it is important for me to focus on the ways I have grown because of the hurt and to be grateful for the event that helped me grow. And sometimes, it is helpful for me to do a 10th Step or to remind myself that this is a one day at a time program and that although I have done things in the past that were harmful to me or to another person, I have made either direct amends or changed my behavior since that earlier time. There truly is no reason to remind myself over and over again of my past behavior or another person's past behavior except to keep me locked in a victim mentality or to play judge and jury for another person who is also human and prone to error.
I've also learned that forgiveness doesn't mean I should go right back to a toxic relationship or behavior or person. If someone is abusive, I can acknowledge that and accept it and move away from it. If someone doesn't want to participate in a relationship to the degree I want to participate, I don't have to see them as an enemy or harmful to me. I can choose to respect their honesty and move on without rancor, bitterness or shaming of myself or them. There are some things that I've learned are harder to forgive than others. With those few occurrences, I've had to learn that forgiveness is also a process that sometimes require the support and help of therapists and/or people who can help me work through the grief that accompanies any loss and my part is only to be willing to forgive and to do what I can to work it through to forgiveness.
There have been times when forgiveness on my part has led to reconciliation with the other person. Each of us had our own part to play in the damaged relationship between us. Talking it over and reasoning it out helped us both see that we are better together than we are apart and each of us were able to see ways we could mend the damage to the relationship and come closer to each other than we were before the trouble between us.
I knew a person who died of cancer. This person was a grudge carrier who could never forgive even the slightest offense. S/he was also someone who retaliated in ways s/he knew would hurt others deeply. Sadly, the person couldn't see the love around him/her - so swollen with bitterness and resentment - s/he was blinded to it. On the last day of mortal life, this person lost all their body fluids to include the eyes which s/he couldn't close because they were too dry. According to Louise Hay's "Heal Your Body," dry eyes are caused by a person's refusal to forgive and their thoughts are spiteful and angry. That information fit this person and it was also eye opening to me.
I don't want to come to the end of my life with bitterness or resentment in my mind or in my heart. From what I've experienced, it is too painful to live that way. From what I've witnessed, its too painful to die that way.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Wednesday 15th of October 2014 05:46:20 AM
-- Edited by grateful2be on Wednesday 15th of October 2014 05:48:28 AM
I loved reading this. I want to forgive and, yet, I do occasionally take a trip down memory lane and bring old hurts to the surface to chew on for awhile. When I find myself doing this, I take my inventory to determine why.
There is a visualization I have done where I go down into my dungeon and see who I have locked up to punish. With those I find, I unlock the bars and set them free. I usually need to set me free.
That's so true, Paula. I have oft wondered if people in prison believe they need to be punished and keep returning for that reason. Fear can certainly do a number on us. I've imprisoned myself in mental constructs at times that are punishing and serve no real purpose at all. Mercy does more for me than pain will ever do except to get my attention so I can consider what I'm thinking and make changes in it. I love the visualization example. I haven't heard that before today. Thank you.
I sometimes get annoyed with people. But what outweighs that is that I have much more love for people and I am fascinated by them. I can't be too angry or frustrated with anyone when I am really trying to understand dynamics, observe, and see things broadly.
I observe some folks will talk about God and their religion but then have very little tolerance and a whole lot of judgment and resentment for God's children. That saddens me.
I was on facebook and saw a pro-Gay meme...I clicked on the picture and there were thousands of posts and comments. About 2 thirds were supportive, but one third was ugly hate, open name calling, blatant bigotry, and somehow people who said these things thought it was okay. A while back, I would have been so angry and resentful reading the negative and ignorant comments. Coming out of the closet and accepting myself for what I've always been was the bravest and hardest thing I've ever done. I literally had a mental breakdown over it...was teased in grade school, bullied...So I come out of the closet and people are still yelling "FAG!" and "EWW Gross" when they observe my love that I have for my partner. How do I perceive that without developing resentment and hate back at them?
Well...Just like we come into the rooms kicking and screaming against becoming enlightened...Just like we come into the rooms paralyzed with fear and angry and resentful....These are those folks. Not much different than newcomers. And I was a newcomer once so I guess I can't judge too harshly. I used to perceive their negativity and hate personally. Nope. I forgive them for being so ignorant and fearful. They are fragile, sometimes confused, angry, denial-ridden PEOPLE. Just people. And I am fine. Better than fine.
If I am going to be happy. I can't hate. I just can't. I want to be like a fish swimming around with other pretty fish. I do not want to be a fish swimming around with what I perceive as a bunch of ugly and dangerous sharks. That can't be my life. I will drink over that. That hate will come back at me 10 fold.
So this is how I love people even though large chunks of them say things like I'm going to hell and they don't "believe" in my way or my kind or whatever awful nonsense and they say these things just based on knowing 1 thing about me.
I guess God had me pretending to be straight until I was 25 so I could understand that. God had me be gay so I could understand that. God gave me problems with depression and I had these struggles so that I could understand what that is like. God gave me alcoholism so I could understand that. God gave me an alcoholic relationship for 7 years so I could learn from that to understand what that is like. None of this was done so I could be a hate filled victim. It was all done so I could better identify with people and their struggles. I'm a counselor anyhow so I might as well have better ability to empathize.
So I guess my point is - You cannot claim to love your HP if you don't also love his/her/its creations as well. Hating other people is not too different than hating God.
That sounds awful. I dont want that either. I suppose it makes sense when you think about how connected our bodies and minds are. I never knew what forgiveness was until I got to alanon. I held grudges too, memories would go round and round and I never knew what to do with them so they continued for years, eating away at me.
It wasnt until I learned that alcoholism is a disease and that my exs behaviour was driven by a need to feed his addiction and a sickness in his mind , rather than a mean, spiteful, hateful person. Then I got round to forgiving him. It wasnt really about him either, you know a big declaration like im on a throne looking down and giving him forgiveness. It was an inside thing. It was about me letting go of the constant circling of resentments and grudges. Just telling myself that I dont have to dredge up each and every painful memory, relive it, feel the pain all over again. I could bring it up, see it for being just another example of the disease and let it go. It took the power away from memories and placed them with me. I can choose not to feel hurt. Its amazing that the power to feel relief was always within me.
I try to use this new way of thinkjng with everyone in my life if I can. I have a friend who is flighty, she is either in my life, almost daily or I dont hear from her for weeks. This gets to me every now and then and I can get resentful and a bit like shes taking the p out of me and then I want to confront her and tell her bye the way your hurting my feelings and I wont be used by you. Then I realise, she has many issues and is constantly in some inner turmoil so often she spends time with friends who enable her and thats when I dont see her, then she gets a bit of reality and she comes back. Maybe I should be flattered I dont know. Shes being my friend since we were about 7 yrs old and I love her. Im also learning to love the people I love just as they are so ive always known this about her but it stings every time. Also, I doubt im the perfect friend either, I can go awol too.
I think the world is made up of people with issues, every single one of us and these issues can drive us to behave in various ways so I suppose taking anything personally is a mistake really because it usually is nothing to do with us. Thanks for the post, as usual a deep one and I will probably give it more thought.x
I can so relate to all that has been shared here most especially the knowledge that what has happened to us in the past can be such a help to us and others in the future and the fact that everyone has issues and those issues can drive us to behave in ways that are not always our finest hours. I think about my grandson who is learning and I can't be anything but delighted in him - even when he screws up. I have experienced that with my own HP. I'm loved enough to suffer consequences and to be shown a different way to think and behave that I can apply or not and yet I know that I am loved exactly as I am and will be in the future, too.
For me, one of the deepest reasons I couldn't forgive myself or another boiled down to unhealthy pride. "How dare you do that to ME!!!!!!!!!!" or "How could I do that to myself or another?" Getting over MY/ME/MY little self is a process, too. I'm much better at recognizing pride when it raises its fist of fury to the heavens than I was many years ago and yet I know it will always be a part of me and something that can always trip me up if I don't pay attention.
Grateful said I've also learned that forgiveness doesn't mean I should go right back to a toxic relationship or behavior or person. If someone is abusive, I can acknowledge that and accept it and move away from it. If someone doesn't want to participate in a relationship to the degree I want to participate, I don't have to see them as an enemy or harmful to me. I can choose to respect their honesty and move on without rancor, bitterness or shaming of myself or them. There are some things that I've learned are harder to forgive than others. With those few occurrences, I've had to learn that forgiveness is also a process that sometimes require the support and help of therapists and/or people who can help me work through the grief that accompanies any loss and my part is only to be willing to forgive and to do what I can to work it through to forgiveness.
There have been times when forgiveness on my part has led to reconciliation with the other person. Each of us had our own part to play in the damaged relationship between us. Talking it over and reasoning it out helped us both see that we are better together than we are apart and each of us were able to see ways we could mend the damage to the relationship and come closer to each other than we were before the trouble between us.
I agree with the "letting go" but not going back to toxic relationship......and yea, with bio sister as example, I can forgive, but as human, I cannot 4get the things she has said/done to me, the "jabs" she loved to make at my recovery...to tear me down...i cut her off...it was either me or her and i chose me...yaaay big progress there.....for me and this is my situation, there is one I cannot 4give....my sire....his crime against me was just TOO great...and he never was sorry for what he did...felt he was entitled to do the harm that he did...so what do i do??? i made the conscious decision to just keep turning him and my hate/resentment over to my HP......made the decision to just MOVE ON.....LET GO the hate/resentment and MOVE ON....the hebrews have a simple treatment of evil..."may his name be erased" no rancor, no revenge, just ERASE him...so i went to court and did just that......my children do not know of hm....do not know hs name.....b/c even b4 i went to court in 2004 to *erase* him, i refused to bring his name into their consciousnesses...my girls never knew about him except he was a bad/evil spirit and must be eliminated/kept from our lives...not even in memory......hes GONE....disposed of....taken care of my HP......i had no part in our damaged relationship...a child is never anything but innocent.....
there have been many relatinshps through step 9 that we did reconcile...we managed to meet in the middle...some relationships that didn't happen,b ut its OK b/c I took responsibility for my side of the street and my job was done.......some relationships can be reconcilled, some cannot...i accept what is......
VERY NICE SHARE, ((((((((((((((C))))))))))))))))))
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
I didn't read the other responses yet, but wanted to thank you for this, Grateful. My dad died as a bitter resentment holding man. He died a terrible death and suffered for nearly 2 years before he finally passed. I don't want to die and have resentments or anger in my heart. Some things take more time to come to forgiveness over and some things need us to reevaluate the toxicity of a relationship and decide if we want that person in their life. Just because someone hurts us, doesn't mean we have to carry around unforgiveness, but it might mean that we need to separate ourselves from this person to protect us from future harm by them.
I want to learn from the past, but I also want to forgive and let live. I know I'm not perfect either and I have to do a few step 10s every now and then to right my wrongs. I have to remember that not everyone has a step program and that everyones path is their own, there's no need to judge on my part. After all these years in program, I can now see the difference between toxic people and safe people and I hope I can continue to sharpen this tool in my program and in my life.
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Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
Profound share, Andromeda. Love the photo, too. Did you take that in Nevada or is that a homegrown photo? A Hospice counselor once told me that she saw that people pretty much died like they lived. I want to die laughing (and talking) surrounded by folks in my own home who can take the awesome with the awful and are graceful, witty and wise. My Dad died grateful and at peace. He couldn't laugh anymore since his body was paralyzed and he laughed as long as he could. I'm sorry your Dad died differently and I'm glad you are choosing to die differently than him. Dying is a part of living and we seldom know when our last day on earth is to be. Never too early to make changes now if we need to do it.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Wednesday 15th of October 2014 09:50:03 AM
-- Edited by grateful2be on Wednesday 15th of October 2014 09:52:14 AM
-- Edited by grateful2be on Wednesday 15th of October 2014 09:57:01 AM
Forgiveness is a hard concept for me right now. I can not even go there.
I realize i need to to move on and let go.
One night When i was driving home, I thought i really need to forgive AH,
and next thing i know i had a blood curling scream come out of me
right from the tip of my toes. It sounded like i was being murdered.
That really scared me. The level of inner pain from someone i had trusted
So much.
I am not ready to forgive my AH, i just can not at this Time. I am crying
just writing this the hurt and pain is much too deep.I hope when the
divorce is final and i live elsewhere forgiveness with my HP
Help will happen. I know it is the only way i will trully heal my wounds.
Miranda - That type of forgiveness will not happen until you are at a better spot in life and are just happy and maybe happier than you were with him. At that point, you will know he treated you like dirt and you will not be okay with it. However, you won't feel spiteful, angry, or hurt, because you will be happy or even happier with your new life. It will happen but it will take time.
Forgiveness will probably not mean that you will ever be okay with certain things and they way they happened. But it will mean you are no longer hurting from them.
Thank you pink i needed that. I just keep struggling.
Also i know my old pain from growing up with in a
Dysfunction family come into play here.
It is so very hard when they are not active you think
Of them as normal but he wasnt. My drug and alcohol
therapist said Think about the 18 good years and let
go of the last 11 bad years. I went to her for a checkup
Last month. She said i was doing well and to come
Back if i felt a need. I am trying to stand on my own
Two feet.
Mirandac: Forgiveness isn't for the other person. It is for us. It doesn't mean what the other did or didn't do was okay. It just means we are willing to let go of the hurt and say goodbye to the past. Some things are easier to forgive than others. You are fresh and raw right now. Forgiveness is a process and right now you aren't there as you said. It took me about three years after I divorced my x to totally let go of any emotional reaction to him or to the past experiences with him as my husband. Keep doing what you're doing and feeling the way you're feeling. There is no need for you to forgive or to even consider it until you are ready.
Oh, I got sick of that "You're so strong, stuff." I had to turn a deaf ear to it every once in awhile. It's okay to feel weak and depleted, too. After all - we do. So - you won't hear from me that you're strong. You'll hear from me that you're grieving through this and it hurts until it doesn't. (((M)))
Thank you so right you are. I really dont know why
People say that. I feel like i could fold at any given
moment somedays.
I can not emotionally handle any added on stress from
My work in home health care. I would love to take a
leave of absense. My two bosses work with me to a point.
Miranda - That type of forgiveness will not happen until you are at a better spot in life and are just happy and maybe happier than you were with him. At that point, you will know he treated you like dirt and you will not be okay with it. However, you won't feel spiteful, angry, or hurt, because you will be happy or even happier with your new life. It will happen but it will take time.
Forgiveness will probably not mean that you will ever be okay with certain things and they way they happened. But it will mean you are no longer hurting from them.
i agree with this....my sire is the one i cannot 4give but I *decided* to give up the hate/resentment....gave it to my HP.....i don't hurt from him, i am way better at that....to me adn i say TO ME, 4giveness is a BY product of recovery...not really required for me, anyway, BUT I MUST give up the spite, resentment,hate, etc....and it is ebbing, albeit slowly, but yea, i don't worry about it , i don't let anyone tell me on their time table i gotta do this or that.....i will never be ok with what he did...but i can give up the inner poison about it....i want to focus on me, never anymore him
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Oh, I got sick of that "You're so strong, stuff." I had to turn a deaf ear to it every once in awhile. It's okay to feel weak and depleted, too. After all - we do. So - you won't hear from me that you're strong. You'll hear from me that you're grieving through this and it hurts until it doesn't. (((M)))
OHHH me too.....there are times i am NOT strong, so how about that??? oh i go nuts when folks tell me that, yea, they mean well and i don't get angry at them, however when i am feeling weak, i am not afraid to say "well I am not strong now" and i reach out for help.........i agree with the Yes, I am grieving through (whatever) and i will hurt till it does not hurt.........i have vastly improved in this, but i still experience some of it.......my whole life was taken, and i am fighting to get the remainder back in MY hands.....it takes time
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
I have two and 1/2 months of earned time. I only have to
Work 20 hrs a week. But now is not the time unless i really
Can not deal with that job. I almost quit last sunday i was so
Overwhelmed and upset, just too stressed out. But i had 3 days in
A row i got 8 hrs rest and i was alot better. My private client
Isnt behaving any better, lots of anxiety and obsessing.
Well, then, it sounds like its one day at a time with this emotional roller coaster ride at work for awhile? If you have a sponsor, maybe you could ask her to help you do assets, gratitude lists and a share on a reading each day while you work through this or another fellowship member?
I remember praying and praying that I forgive my (then) AH. I didn't know how to do it on my own. One morning, I woke up and the enormous burden of un-forgiveness was gone. I couldn't say what happened for sure, other than HP came and removed my anger and resentment and restored my serenity and peace while I was sleeping. I think it's something that can come when we're open enough and ready enough.
Once I hear an AA member who was working hard at his recovery program say that he could not afford to be angry or carry a resentment. This is something I practice in my recovery program to help process anger and resentments when they start surfacing.
I like what Mark wrote to Miranda. Like it a lot. When I take care of myself (meetings, readings, sponsortalks, something aerobic, stretching, sunshine etc) I am immune from experiencing the toxicity of resentments. This takes work, and it is its own reward. I can't be bothered to hurt. Oh I'm not forgetting contact with my HP. That is big.
Forgiveness is one of those " where from the mountain am I looking today?" concepts. I have struggled with its meaning for years,mostly because it had usually been presented in a cloying and ignorant manner, a one sided eyes screwed shut and mouth making words type drama.I like the way you described it pink chip, where its when a hurt that's occured no longer has the power to poison you. Neshema,giving it to hp,o read that from you on another post, tried it and felt it move. Grateful,the dry eyed story was very sad. To feel such pain ones whole life. I feel all this gives me reason to be deeply appreciative of the simple and good things. Forgiveness....could it also be called letting-go and being ok?dying the way we live.......if I began dyi g tomorrow,id be dying fearful.wow,that's something I want to change.
-- Edited by aquamom23 on Wednesday 15th of October 2014 11:55:09 PM
-- Edited by aquamom23 on Wednesday 15th of October 2014 11:56:57 PM
Yes, forgiveness can be seen as letting go and (noticing) we're okay. I love that you see today that if you died tomorrow, you'd be dying fearful. Wanting to change all that - powerful. When I look back at all the things that happened and didn't happen in my lifetime, I can be nothing truly but grateful to my HP and the ways we navigated through rough and smooth waters together. I can still sit up and take nourishment and my life has been truly an adventure and a romance novel in one. It has been a good ride in many ways and I look forward to new adventures and maybe a romance or two in the future, too, if that is my HP's will for me. (And if Milkwood and El cee and Hotrod would find Liam for me.)
In the course of looking for Liam on the beautiful north Yorkshire moors this week I met up with an old school friend that I hadn't seen for 37 years. We spent a lovely evening together and both benefitted so much while telling each other our stories - she reminded me about who I was as a young girl and I reminded myself of many very happy times in my life. We both had little worries that had been knocking on our consciences for all these years. I had a chance to apologise for a childhood tantrum and (to my mind) a very manipulative punishment that I dealt out. She apologised for not returning a cake tin or even writing a thank you note for the cake. We had both been feeling a bit bad about these things but the funning thing was that neither of us could remember the other ones perceived slights - we had each been beating ourselves up for our own behaviour for years!!! Just goes to show, let it go!
Aquamom, I like your comment 'if I began dying tomorrow' partly because we all do begin dying tomorrow in one way or other - what a lovely way to remind ourselves of what we would like today.
The last full conversation that I had with my mum was full of giggles - the morphine might have contributed a bit! She chose to leave this world to the sound of laughter in her room as the nurse and I chuckled about some small thing or other. Such grace!
-- Edited by milkwood on Thursday 16th of October 2014 12:13:25 PM
LOL, MW: I love how you weaved "looking for Liam" into your meet up with a friend from so many years ago. I also thoroughly enjoyed what you discovered - that the very things that bothered you about you in relationship to your friend left no lasting harm for her - just you.
And to read that your Mom left this world being serenaded by the sound of laughter - oh, my - how I would have loved to meet your Mom. And you, too, of course! And yes - I agree - such grace to laugh in the face of death and trust one's self to the greatest unknown.
Thanks for posting this, Grateful. It's such a good topic. Before Al-Anon, I had gotten to a point where I could no longer look at my AH without feeling contempt and anger. I had enough resentments to fill a very thick book. I harbored, and nurtured these resentments until they turned me into an isolated and lonely old woman. With the help of my HP and Al-anon, I was able to see what I looked like. The anger and bitterness has completely closed me off from people who loved me. Through Al-anon, I begin to learn how to live differently, but until I started step four, forgiveness was not part of my vocabulary.
What I first had to do was learn how to forgive myself. This has been difficult for me. As I progress with this step, I'm learning and remembering my failures as a mother when my children were growing up. This hurts. I'm remembering things I did that disappointed and hurt my parents. I wish I had done things differently. I have regrets. But my HP has told me to forgive myself. In working this step, I have been able to see past this disease and see my husband, and have since noticed the thickness of my book holding all my resentments is becoming thinner. Maybe this is forgiveness, I'm not sure. I know my life is so much more peaceful and serene. Before I fall asleep at night, I have begun to take inventory of my day. I reflect and am thankful to my HP for the things that went well that day and I ask for forgiveness for my shortcomings. Somehow this helps me start fresh the next day.
For me, forgiveness does not mean I will go back to the way my life was. I cannot live like that again. I know I need to keep moving forward. I can forgive my husband, but I cannot forgive the disease. I can love my husband and hate the disease. I know this makes no sense, but it's where I'm at now.
Let go and let God and take one day at a time!
It works if you work it.
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Look for the rainbow after the storm, and I'm sending you a double dose of HOPE. H-hold O-on P-pain E-ends
Makes perfect sense to me, CS. The disease really has a life of its own. Being able to separate the disease from the person with it does certainly make a difference for us. Step 4/Step 10 - not always easy to do (S4) and a relief to practice(S10).
