At wits end - Al-Anon Family Group

Hullibee · Senior Member

At wits end

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Ellen I hear you and have been in your shoes often . This is a dreadful disease and even with the tools some days we are left feeling overwhelmed I finally arrived at the point were I told myself I was powerless over this disease and that I had turned him over to HP I believed that whatever would happen I would be given the courage, and wisdom to handle

One time my Husband became tired of dealing with winter ,made reservation to fly to a warm climate and told me that once there he was going to kill himself. I called his sponsor told him and then let go., I went to work and then did not hear from him for two weeks. Then one night, after I had returned from work he walked in the door and demanded I take him to rehab. I was annoyed because i had actually accepted that he had killed himself by then and . I had it by then and refused. Told him to call his AA friends and he did That was the beginning of his 7 year recovery
Acceptance that Hp will be there and that we do not get more than we can handle helped me.

Prayers and positive thoughts on the way

Hullibee · Senior Member

thank you Betty. I really needed someone to tell me it's going to be OK. I just spoke to him briefly and I told him this needs to STOP. I just wish he would ask me to take him to rehab I would do it in a minute. I know I am the one that is being crazy right now. I need to accept. That is my goal.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Ellen I am glad you spoke to him . Continue to post, use your tools and remember positive prayers on the way.

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

So good you reached out here....sometimes just typing our concerns and knowing that others are listening is calming. These experiences are excruciating. No matter how many years of recovery I had, I could not live with them. That is what worked for me. To live by "to thine own self be true" is golden and it is different for each of us. (((Ellen)))

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

If im honest I sometimes wished something happened to him just to shake him into changing and for me to get peace of mind. Alas, they tend to survive andsurvive well. The world can be an easier place to navigate when your drunk with very littke regard or concern for others. He is an adult, he can and most likely will take care of himself, any consequences that do occur are usually well earned consequences and not a lot to do with yyou. Being affected means we can think irrationally, worry and fear are symptoms and are for us to make better not them. The serenity prayer, meetings, phone a member all help me.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Some things cant be accepted without compromisjng our own happiness and serenity. Thats where boundaries come in, if he behaves in an unacceptable way then boundaries will make him think twice. Talking and tellings useless, actions work. Lock the door and go away for a couple of days or do something really fun for yourself when he plays this game, reacting to it will encourage it to happen again. Keep up with the living, he will most likely stop if there is a consequence of some kind.

andromeda · ~*Service Worker*~

Acceptance is so hard when we worry and fear for their safety. I understand. My AH went on a binge on Sunday and I couldn't reach him that night nor the next AM until he texted me at noon. I've stopped even mentioning it to him. I don't tell him how I feel. I have been through this so many times and I can't say it gets easier but I can say that I can remind myself of the last time and know that he most likely turned off his phone. Or, in the case in July, he left it in a limo after being picked up at a strip club. There are so many scenarios and some are almost humorous, some are more serious and make us think they are dead or lying in a ditch somewhere.

I've realized I can't live like this anymore and that the anxiety and stress is killing me. But, I've been doing it for the past 3 years now after he was 15 years sober. For me, I had to reach out. I'd post here if it was late just so I could put it out to people who understood. I'd call a program friend or text my sponsor. I'd hit my knees and then I'd get busy doing something else. I'm sorry that you had a rough night but glad that you heard from him this AM. HUGS!

Hullibee · Senior Member

Thank you Paula, Elcee, and Andromada,

i am very thankful for you responses. I just needed to hear the explanations so I could get off the merry go round. I know that I cannot control his binges. I just have trouble with the anxiety and fear.

Andromada I needed to hear that another person has this problem. Why do I feel so all alone?? I hate that my life is unmanageable. I will call my sponsor when I get home from work later. I just have to make it through one more hour.

Ellen

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

HI Ellen,

My AW was busted for DUI while I was on a business trip in Toronto (I live in Indianapolis area). I had to be on the floor of a warehouse installing software that I was customizing, meanwhile getting calls first form my wife who was obviously drunk, and then from my son's private Christian middle school principal that my wife had been picked up for DUI in their parking lot, getting everything arranged for my son to stay at mother-in-law, etc. Talked to the wife twice, but that was all, for about 5 minutes apiece, lots of tears on her end. That was Thursday, and I had to stay until Tuesday, and couldn't work over the weekend, so had nothing to do but stew.

Fortunately I had read enough of How Al Anon Works that I had understood detachment. I found a hike to go on, and hung out with work buddies. Nobody close enough there to discuss this with. Was not yet on MIP, had only been to Al Anon a couple of times. But I made it through, and learned that bad things can turn into good. My wife became sober due to that event. I found that I could detach from her behavior. Son finally found out that she was really alcoholic and what the consequences can be, and we had some good long talks about it with him. And I got into Al Anon.

Detachment can be a wonderful thing. I'm sure you have lots of things to distract you at school today, throw yourself into them, and know that you are powerless. There is great strength in knowing you are powerless, and that worrying, phone calls, checking jails and bars, actually does no good, so go live back in the moment that HP intended for you to live in, and leave him to the moment that HP intends for him. It could be the moment that finally makes him decide to sober up.

Kenny

Hullibee · Senior Member

Thank you Kenny,

Wow I would have been nuts being that far away. I need to know this though because I am a crazy person when he doesn't come home. I even got my daughter all worked up. I didn't mean to do that but she is a county dispatch and I just texted her to see if he had been arrested. Crazy!!

I will turn everything over to HP and move on.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

The night terrors for me were the worst. I learned to read my readers until I was calm and to focus on staying in what I knew for sure and dealing with that. What I knew mostly was that I didn't know much about my loved one's whereabouts if anything, HP did, and that I was projecting fearful thoughts that were not helpful to me. Once I discovered MIP, I also spent time interacting or reading on the board and discovered I could only focus on what was at hand and not what wasn't. Once I wasn't alone with my night terrors, things got easier for me. I didn't want to call any face to face buddy - not after 10 - so MIP and my readers became my lifeline until I made additional changes that for me helped me sleep better, too. I couldn't live with an active alcoholic again. I know this for sure. I know it is a roller coaster ride that isn't worth the cost of the ticket to me anymore.

Jill · ~*Service Worker*~

I remember well the many nights I called various hospitals. Of course, that is the only explanation I could entertain.

I can still I remember the first time I didn't call the hospitals. I was so grateful for that little bit of detachment. That was my first inclination my focus was on me. It really worked. I had a restful sleep that night. I took baby steps.

I hope you can get rest the next night you are in this situation. You have received good suggestions that reduce the stress.
Keep reading and praying.

Hullibee · Senior Member

Thank you everyone. I am so grateful for MIP. It is wonderful to know I can get validation for my feelings from people like you all. I am doing much better after reading everyone's suggestions.

cloudyskies · ~*Service Worker*~

Hullibee. I also know your pain and worry. I actually think I was developing an ulcer from worrying. The problem is the alcoholics do not think about anything but their alcohol when they are binging. They don't understand your worrying nor do they accept it. I'm not sure where I would be right now had God not led me to al-anon. It has truly been my life preserver. Like some of the others, I wanted something bad to happen to my ah to bring him to his senses (arrested, or even an accident where only he was involved). While he's never been arrested for DUI, he was in an accident (fender bender), and the police did not charge him. I guess the police saw his viet-nam vet tag on the front of his truck and felt sorry for him. But he wasn't charged.

I cannot count the number of nights I laid awake wondering where he was and if he was ok. I began trying everything I could think of to control his drinking. Of course nothing work. I was literally driving myself crazy. If anything my behavior was giving him more reasons to drink. Then, God led me to al-anon. I am learning to live a different way, and for now it's working for me. The first and most important thing I had to learn was that I am absolutely powerless over alcohol. Now, I am learning how to let go and let God, and while I still have slips, I am beginning to feel sane again.

While I cannot help my h, I cannot protect him, and I cannot save him, I know my HP can, so I have put my trust in Him. What ever happens will happen, and I trust my HP to carry me through it.

((hugs))

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I actually would have been relieved to hear my AH had been arrested. It might be a step towards waking him up, plus once he's in police custody he's not going to be drunk-driving and killing anybody.

But on the whole I never got to where I could be calm in the face of not knowing when he was coming home or what state he'd be in. It was always like "What chaos is going to break in on me at some unexpected time?" That was yet another reason it was a good decision for me personally to split up with my A. I'm sure that since then he's gotten in all kinds of trouble that I've never known about, and not knowing about it makes me happy!

The other thing is that A's are a lot less destructible than they seem. I know that sometimes bad things do happen. But when you consider how much crazy, dangerous, outrageous behavior they get up to, the bad consequences are actually few and far between. It's like how they declare they're broke and helpless, yet they always seem to find money and a chance to buy beer. And we always think of them lying in a ditch somewhere, and then they come reeling in. I would have thought my A would be living under a bridge by now. But he's still living his crazy lifestyle, in a regular house.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Sometimes, we talk about wanting to be a soft place for the A to land. Your desire to drive him to rehab makes me think about this saying that I've heard in recovery circles. Trouble is, we get crushed and they can often bounce right back up to start the madness all over again. Getting out of my loved ones way, giving him to God and getting on with my own life took a tremendous amount of energy at first because it was so new to me. Allowing him to suffer consequences without me being the one to provide or push a solution for him was very painful for me at first because it was so new and hit at almost every belief I was taught and thought was true. Later, I began to see that although his life was full of chaos and drama, mine was not. Of course, my life still had and has lots of challenges at times and difficulties, too. What it no longer has is me being devastated repeatedly by setting myself up as a soft place to land - not only for my AS but for others' in my family who have this disease. I stopped trying to help with their rescue and rehab and restoration and started working harder on my own. The disease can crush us as it can crush our As. Getting help as you are choosing to do on MIP and in Al-Anon is such a helpful thing for you to do for you. It will help you avoid being destroyed by this disease even if it progresses in your husband who can also choose to get help when the pain gets bad enough or not.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Ellen, I was a pretty bad alcoholic. I would get smashed, hurt myself, stay out all night, wake up on the floor...all of that. I have been sober now just shy of 6 years.

I never went to rehab. It probably would have been safer for the purpose of detox and I might have benefited from it...but... When I reached my own limit of what "enough" was for me, I delved into AA full force. I don't know why we alcoholics have different levels for what is "enough." Sometimes I tell my story about how I crashed my car drunk and that is when I had my last drink and then other alcoholics are like "I wish I stopped drinking at crashing one car. I crashed 10..."

Anyhow, embracing recovery is what allows people to stay sober and that is usually AA...I'm only telling you all this so you don't fall into hoping that rehab will be a cure, or pin all your hope on him going to rehab and that being it. I also hear you saying earlier in this post that you had a conversation with your AH and discussed "how this needs to STOP." Often times, you will get a response from the A which is "I know! I know! You are right. I am going to do better!" For a while, that will appease you and make you feel better but that is also not something to pin your hopes on because I said that a BILLION times before finally taking ACTION and getting into recovery and staying in recovery.

Alcoholism is a lifetime disease that needs lifetime treatment. I still go to meetings and work a program.

In Alanon, we are also taught to keep our expectations of others (qualifiers particularly) at a lowered rate and this is for several reasons. High expectations = disappointment and resentment in the making. Many alcoholics go to rehab and relapse. Many go to a few AA meetings and relapse. Many go to AA for periods of time and relapse. Many go consistently and still experience relapses from time to time. And THEN, some of them go consistently to AA, work a program, and achieve long term sobriety without relapses. For your AH to be in that last category, it will take enormous dedication and basically an act of God which you have ZERO impact or control over. Even if you left him, he might be like 'Oh poor me...I will drink more now" or he might be like "Crap, I need to stop drinking to save my marriage. This is serious." It could always go either way and you cannot control or predict it. So, seeing that the alcoholic could either keep drinking vs. get sober, even in spite of consequences, rehab..etc...AND that lasting sobriety is rare and usually only achieved with serious dedication to a program....That is why it's best to just live your life, use Alanon to insulate yourself from the damage of the disease on a daily basis, and keep your sense of happiness, well-being, and security between you and your HP.

Once you do this and start to detach from the alcoholic in that way, you will then be able to make more rational and spiritually sound decisions about whether you can enjoy life and still be in a relationship with the alcoholic or not. The answer to that varies for each person. If you haven't already, get to alanon and take the focus off him and what he needs to do or not do. What do YOU need to do to be a happy, calm, focused, spiritually fit person? That is what alanon is for.

Hullibee · Senior Member

Pinkchip, I am so hopeful from your post. I know I need Al-anon everyday when I am like this. I wish I could. That is why I come here. I appreciate your description of your experience. Thus puts my beliefs in perspective. I am praying to my HP and I feel calmer. I have been reading my daily reader to get understanding. I am going to the online meeting this morning am listen to others. Thank you.

Ellen.

Diva · ~*Service Worker*~

Hullibee, I can so relate. I was married to, later divorced from a binger. He might last a year without a drink or a month, then suddenly become obnoxiously drunk, stay that way for days, speak to me in a terribly abusive manner, then sober up and behave as if nothing had happened. His favorite quote was, and still is, "Well I am not ALWAYS that way." He cannot imagine that the hurt and outrage he causes does not ever go away. I am telling you this because those of us who know bingers are in a class by ourselves, and I am thinking of you, sending positive energy and thoughts, and hoping that you will find peace with the help of your HP. Keep on keepin' on gal, stick to your program, and you'll make it. Whether he will is questionable, but you know you must be all about you. Leave him to your HP.

Diva

cloudyskies · ~*Service Worker*~

"That is why it's best to just live your life, use Alanon to insulate yourself from the damage of the disease on a daily basis, and keep your sense of happiness, well-being, and security between you and your HP."

Sometimes I find myself becoming complacent or just stagnant and then someone says something that hits me like lightening!

Thanks pinkchip. This is a great piece of advice!!

It works if you work it!

Hullibee · Senior Member

Thank you Diva and Cloudyskies good advice. I did get on with things so far today. I went to a rocket football game to watch grand daughter cheer. She's so cute with her movements and she even is the top girl in the mount. So proud of her and my daughter is the head of the program. I then went to get a manny and pedi it was very relaxing.

I know he's out there somewhere getting his alcohol buzz. Can't understand how someone can drink non stop for 15 to 16 hours. you would think that much liquid would drown them. I have to keep telling myself he is not 'normal'. He is crazy. I just don't get it why he doesn't want to come home.

cloudyskies · ~*Service Worker*~

I know how you feel. My ah is what I call a "traveler." He likes to drink away from home.

I am so glad you got out today and enjoyed yourself!! Keep your focus on you. If you haven't attended any al-anon meetings, I urge you to find one close to you. We don't understand how negatively alcoholism has affected us until we start our recovery.

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.

Let go and let God.

Take care of you, ((Hullibee))

Cathyinaz · ~*Service Worker*~

I remember those times. I would just to crazy not know what my son was doing to where he was. I just knew he would die this time....no that time.....no this time. I finally had to let go completely because all the worry in the world would not change one dang thing. I was just killing myself. I learned to read the ODAT on a daily basis, attend anyone of the meetings around the area or stay the serenity prayer until I stopped with the fear and worry.

The last go around was my son being being so drunk his father took him to the ER with a blood alcohol level of .52......death with most people. When he was finally released with a BAC of .20 his father told him he had to go BUT to stay until he was sober. Well son didn't wait and got in his car and left. Father called me and all I could was pray he would get picked up and not kill anyone. 15 minutes from dad's house he got stopped....Thank God. His choices has given him 2 1/2 years in prison and you know what, that's a good thing. He can finally comes to terms with his disease because 2 and a half years gives him plenty of time to think about what his life is really all about.

Hullibee · Senior Member

Thanks Cathy and Cloudyskies,

I often wish my AH will get picked up or stopped Then maybe he will face the drunk driving issues. It is so scarey.

Cloudyskies I repeat the serenity prayer over and over all night. I need to keep hearing it.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Ellen there are so many alternatives that can happen along with so many that do. For me none of them were good or sane. I use to do the bar hopping hoping that I would find my alcoholic/addict or just get a glimpse of her car. HP kept that from happening. I met other guys that use to do it also with much the same outcome. I've found my alcoholic/addict in the emergency after a 36 hour hold and listed as a "Joan Doe", I've even got the call, as a CHiP dispatcher from a beat officer to identify a car and driver who was my alcoholic/addict. By that time I had pretty well gotten the 3Cees down and Acceptance and detachment and powerlessness down that all I said to the officer was "the subject is known to me". He got the other information he needed at the end of his shift in the office. It had become a "non-issue with me by that time because of the program and HP who sat the board with me okaying my decision to handle it the way I did without drama or trauma or feeling it had anything to do with me; it didn't.

I was past my wits end...end and was on the recovery of sanity slope. I had learned something valuable in Al-Anon which was that I had made the disease and my alcoholic/addict my higher powers. I chose to do that and given that I could choose any other thing also I replaced both with my HP ..."God as I understand God". That change and practice is a daily mind and behavioral set now no matter what is going on or how large or perverse it might seem. HP is "HIGHER" power for a reason and I now know what many miracles have looked like which have transcended how I thought I'd like to happen for me. I know that there is more coming and I don't try to force HP"s hand.

When I reach my wits end that is where HP's wits take over. Keep coming back. (((((hugs))))) smile

Hullibee · Senior Member

Wow Jerry I really like what you said: "When I reach my wits end that is where my HP wits take over." This is exactly what I needed. I have to let go and let God.

andromeda · ~*Service Worker*~

I saw that you mentioned 'you wished he would get picked up or stopped'. Be careful what you wish for. I, too, remember hoping that someday he would get caught drinking and driving because I wanted the outcome to be his bottom, a start to recovery. Well, he did get a DUI. He blew through a red light just 1 mile from our home at 9 PM. My friends and neighbors drive through that intersection every single day. We were so lucky he didn't cause an accident and injure either himself or others. He was charged with a super extreme DUI because he blew a .23, which is nearly 3 times the legal limit.

In the beginning, he was remorseful, even suicidal at times. That lasted about a month and then the drinking started but this time he was hiding it better; only drinking when my son and I were traveling or when he himself traveled for work. He stopped drinking in the home when we were around and just covered it better. He literally became a closet drinker. The DUI was the BEGINNING of my road to h*ll through alcoholism yet it was also where my own recovery really started.

My AH had to serve 3 days in tent city jail in 100 degree heat here in AZ. The judge actually took it easy on him and gave him 11 days home detention with an ankle monitor and a home breathalyzer that would go off at random times in the house and we all would be blessed with it waking us up in the night. Yep, those were fun times, LOL(joking obviously). It was not his bottom and the cost to us was over $15,000 when all was said and done.

That was over 2 years ago and I've chosen my own recovery and I let my AH be in the care of his own HP. There is nothing I can do to stop any of it because he's just doing what alcoholics do. He's had moments where I thought that maybe, just maybe he'd stick with recovery but this last time it only lasted 3 months and that was the longest time overall.

The best thing you can do is work your own recovery program, get stronger, trust God, put your faith in something that is beyond us and then reach out to others who have been where you are. He's on his own path and you don't have to take that path because you have your own free will, given to you by your HP(your creator God). Stay close to God and things will turn out OK.

Hullibee · Senior Member

Thank you Andromeda.

I will concentrate on myself and get out of the WISHING business. I am no genie anyway lol. I know I need HP for myself and let his work for him. I am trying to understand and there is simply no understanding to this disease. That is what gets me in trouble.

andromeda · ~*Service Worker*~

You are trying to make sense out of nonsense at this point, I understand. Alcoholism defies all logic, all normal mental means of thinking go out the window here. HUGS!

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

((((Ellen))))

I've had nights when I've been wondering what AH was up to and then getting upset with myself because I'm not enjoying the peace of him being out of my hair. One time I was sitting outside and an owl landed on the the telegraph pole opposite me. I asked the owl 'what should I do?' And the answer that came from the owl ventriloquist within me was 'have patience.' I heard what I needed to hear at that moment.

I read as much as I could lay my hands on about alcoholism and also about ways of dealing with folks who have different realities from others around them. I decided that I would probably be treating someone with mental health issues with more respect than I was treating my husband so I started respecting his autonomy a bit more.

The question that I asked myself changed from 'how can I show him that he needs to stop' to 'can I put up with this and still preserve my self respect?' If I felt that his behaviour was undermining my self respect then that bit of behaviour was all that I dealt with - it had nothing to do with his choice to drink. I accepted that any action about how to deal with the behaviour that was upsetting me was going to come from me - i.e. I no longer expected AH to change what he was doing in order to sooth my feelings. This meant that I needed to be prepared to leave if it upset me that much, or ignore if it was not that important. Sometimes I left, either for a holiday, a short break and on one occasion I thought that I was leaving for good. I just did whatever it took to restore my self-esteem. I started to have a lot of fun as a result!

In typing this I realise that my respect for AH is also something that needs some restoration work as well - so thank you for that reminder. I think Mr Owl might tell me 'have a bit more patience' on that!

BTW, stepping out of the way and giving AH his autonomy helped him to take responsibility for his behaviour and to make some constructive choices for himself.

cloudyskies · ~*Service Worker*~

Sometimes we wait for our As to reach that infamous "bottom" and it never happens. I have learned not to pin my hopes on believing one day he will reach this bottom. I am simply learning how to live one day at a time. I am doing this by keeping my focus on my HP and myself. Al-Anon has provided me with tools to do this, and I have found that as long as I work the program, it works for me. This road has not been an easy one. For over 15 years, I have learned to be the way I am, so I know I'm not going to be "fixed" over night. I did not realize how profoundly my husband's drinking had affected me. I am learning things about myself that I don't like. This gives me the chance to fix them. More over, I'm learning things about myself that I do like, and I'm understanding how to make these things grow.

Take the focus off of him and put it on you.

Al-Anon recovery-- It works if you work it.

((hugs))

Hullibee · Senior Member

Thanks Milkwood, how very profound your advice is. "Can I put up with this and stil preserve my self respect?" I think about that question and wonder. Am I doing the right things?? My adult daughter thinks I'm enabling him. I don't think I am when I stay out of his way. According to Al-anon we are to let them be. Daughter is angry with me for not putting my foot down. I wish I could give her advice but I can barely understand myself.

thanks Grateful, I took the focus off him today and spent a lovely day watching grandson play baseball. I chatted with friends, laughed, and didn't think of him once. Now I am home cooking dinner and don't know when or if he'll return. I'm trying to focus on me. i even helped grandson with trigonometry homework. All feels really great. Thanks.

Tossed Salad · Veteran Member

Hullibee- my thoughts are with you. A few weeks ago, my AH went out of town and I was very concerned he was going to kill himself. When the thoughts were first in my mind I was a wreck and was going to call his therapist and him and do what ever I could do to keep him safe. But in feeling the stress and gut wrenching worry, I dove into this site and my literature. He is a grown man who will make his own choices. I cannot control what he does. If he has made a decision, it is his to own. Not me. I was able to turn the focus on me, put him in the hands of my HP and prayed that HP would keep him safe. I also prayed that HP would be with me to deal with whatever happened. Amazingly, the knots in my stomach lessened and I was able to put one foot in front of the other. You are a strong woman. Glad you are finding some happiness with your grandson! Hugs to you!

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

If you sacrifice yourself or sell yourself short by staying out of his way...it could be enabling. If you just make yourself happy by diverting your attention elsewhere, that's different.

Hullibee · Senior Member

Tossed salad thanks, I am glad your husband was OK. I wouldn't wish a death on anyone. I have to live with losing my daughter. Although it was undetermined whether she killed herself I still have the guilt that I could have / should have stopped her. I don't know if I'll ever truly get over that feeling. Everyday I go on living. I guess that is why I feel so strongly about AH. I know I can't control what he does but I still want him to know I'm here for him.

Pinkchip, I'm a little confused by your response. "If you sacrifice you or sell yourself short ..." Is that what I'm doing? I can't tell. I try to stay out of his way not yelling, crying, or nagging about him leaving. Is that sacrificing my self esteem? Help me better understand. I'm trying to explain to daughter but all she sees is me 'letting' him go get drunk without consequences.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

For example, if every time you come into the room when he's drinking, he screams at you - so then you wind up isolating and staying in your room all the time. That would be sacrificing too much and selling yourself short in my book. If you have to go out of your way to "overlook" or ignore certain behaviors, that would be enabling.

As far as him leaving the house - That is going to be your personal boundary. For me, it would be unacceptable behavior to be with someone staying out all night drinking. Doesn't mean it's flat out wrong behavior and the other person is an adult but I can say for sure - Not for me. That sacrifices too much of what I want out of a partnership. So for me, I don't know that avoiding, ignoring, or never discussing that is enabling the addiction, but it would be enabling an unacceptable pattern of relationship behavior for me personally. It would overstep my bounds even though I know the other person is grown and can stay out all night if they want. You have to decide for yourself if this is beyond acceptable for you. If you can still come together at times when he's sober and you go and enjoy yourself regardless of what he's doing at those other times, maybe it could be ok. I don't know for sure.

Hullibee · Senior Member

Pinkchip thank you for clarifying. I think his staying out all night is unacceptable behavior too. Not sure if I can impose a boundary with him. I have told him this is not acceptable but he still keeps doing it. How do I set a boundary and what would I set? I know this is my decision but I'm afraid to tell him to get out if he continues to do this. I'm afraid he will leave I mean. I don't want him to but he might if I say to. Uuuugggghhhh. Why is this disease so destructive?

I will try to talk to him again. I know I need to set some kind of consequence.

thanks, Ellen.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Ellen: I can relate to that fear that you are describing - the fear of him leaving. That is oftentimes the underlying reason why we stay in partnerships with practicing alcoholics. Fear of so many things that when faced, we notice that as adults, we are fully capable of handling as we learn to live life on life's terms. From what I've read, he has been leaving and staying out all night and doing pretty much what he has wanted to do. And although it is scary for you when he just takes off and you don't know where he is, you've been able to talk with us, teach a classroom of children, spend time with your own grandchildren and children and enjoyed yourself as you did that. So, apparently, when he leaves, you are doing just fine! You even have asked for help with those times when he is gone and you don't know where he is - and not from him, but from us. That was a decision you also made without his input. I had many fears when I lived with my x because my self esteem hit a low and I was going on need and not want. When I saw that I didn't need him, I could also see I didn't want to live the way I'd been living. He didn't change and I did. He didn't like all the changes in me and it didn't matter to me. I had found myself again and that was all that truly mattered to me. I waited for him in my heart and in my mind without telling him any of that and I saw later that staying with him wouldn't have made a difference in our marriage but it certainly would have completely destroyed me.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Monday 8th of September 2014 05:31:04 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Monday 8th of September 2014 05:33:29 PM

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Hulibee, boundaries can be firm and clearly defined and usually that is better, but it is anxiety provoking because it locks you into the consequence you state if the boundary is broken. Sometimes the issue is a bit more complex. For now, it seems clear that a reasonable boundary to communicate would be "It's unacceptable that you stay out all night and drink and the consequence is that each time it happens, I lose more trust and faith in you and that it is putting our relationship in jeopardy. I cannot say I am going to leave you our end our marriage if this happens 1 more time, but I can say it is having a very real cost on our relationship and it could destroy it. Ball is in your court now to either keep doing it or stop knowing what I have told you." Stating something like this is saying it FOR YOU though and not because you really think it will get him to stop. He might just see it as nagging and that you will stay in the relationship with him no matter what but that's on him and you are being true to yourself with the statement.

Relationships with adults (even alcoholics) are more complex than a child. It's harder to just "set a consequence" for undesirable behavior and hope the Alcoholic learns from it and changes. Usually they only learn from hard consequences such as jail, health scares... Hence, this is really more for you so that your voice and your truth don't get squashed and or silenced by his disease.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.