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Miracles In Progress 12 Step Recovery Forums -> Al-Anon Family Group -> Al-Anon Family Group -> Perspectives please ..
Post Info TOPIC: Perspectives please ..
SerenityRUS


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Perspectives please ..
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Visitation is not going well at all .. I didn't realize how much so until my youngest had a therapy appointment today. 

Literally I do not see visitation lasting much longer there is to much guilt for the STBAX regarding the kids and regarding me .. he has emotionally checked out on them.  He is now instigating things during visitation so the kids will end it sooner.  Literally they saw him for 5 hours yesterday and that covered the whole weekend.  The passive aggressive behavior on his part was extremely disturbing to the point the kids didn't have tools to say how they felt and literally not have it come out badly.  He's doing things to make them want to end visitation early .. which trust me he's so  stupid really isn't hard to do at this point.  My daughter came home and stated Mom .. that was the most painful 5 hours I have experienced, I was ready to go after 2 hours.  He spent much of the time focusing on what's wrong, what's wrong and then doing things that would upset her .. just stupid stuff .. it's stuff that A's do when they want that reaction out of you. 

Their therapist is suggesting that they come up with things to do during visitation.  It's the typical all or nothing mentality in terms of an addict .. so not this visitation LAST visitation literally they went to the zoo, to putt putt golf, out to eat 2x and this was all in a 5 hour period.  That's a LOT to do in a 5 hour period and this is an example of what it is like .. normally he tries to get them to the movies however he has burnt up that option because of his own behavior the last time.  Kids won't go to the movies now with him.  Now .. they are happy enough to suggest he buy movie passes so the kids and I can go .. I'm sure that went over like a fart in church .. however they won't go with him.  He didn't ask .. they didn't tell and that's how visitation is.

Now .. I feel that the therapists suggestion is enabling .. the man refuses to do ANY work in their relationship and now they are planning visitation?  I don't know .. anyone have any suggestions or ESH in this regard.  I mean he doesn't call them, he doesn't engage them when they are together and now he's calling the girlfriend while they are together for ideas on what to do .. can one person get ANY more lazy in regards to relationships.  I KNOW I have to stay out of it.  I feel like having the kids tell him what to do is completely letting him off the hook in terms of ANY kind of work.  There is NO emotional connection at all.  He's definitely luring the girlfriend into this position. 

Has anyone else dealt with this kind of behavior and how did the kids handle it?  I'm going with hands off for me .. still I need to help them with their own tool box so that they can adjust themselves to the situation as it presents.  Considering I don't see visitation lasting I guess what harm can it do .. I DO NOT want my kids thinking that this is the normal .. they are suppose to do ALL of the work in a relationship .. that's not ok either.  I'm just kind of perplexed. 

Hugs S :)

 



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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism.  If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown

"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Luiza


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Hi Serenity. Do you mind me asking your kids age?

I have a little tale to tell. I just remembered this now, reading your post, haven't thought about it for ages! My dad is apparently dry now but he went to hell and back when he was an active A.

One time when my siblings and I were about 12, 11 and 7, we went to spend the weekend with my dad at his place. I can't remember what we were doing so wrong, maybe we were just being kids, but he locked us in a bedroom and didn't let us out until next morning when he took us back to our mother's house. At one point I convinced him through the door to come in and check on my sister as she had locked her self in the toilet and was there for a long time...he told me that she was probably committing suicide as there was razors there and if I didn't convince her to come out he would have to call the police and ambulance! My sister was fine, I think she just needed time for herself.
Gosh, how crazy is it? The family always made jokes about it and it was all brushed under the carpet, just "dad' being himself again...
Insane.

Now back to you, I really don't have any ESH but I hope your kids are fine and you have your answers soon.



-- Edited by Luiza on Monday 4th of August 2014 06:43:48 PM

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el-cee


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I can relate, my daughter is 23, lives with her dad, who is sober but he tries that passive aggressive stuff on her too. Its hard to stay out of it, well for me. I think sharing your tool box with the kids is about the best you can do. Watching the insanity and seeing it clearly can make us think that kids see it the same way but my sons wont really hear a word against their Dad from me. I have heard them talk about his behaviour at times but they wont tell me anything which Im grateful for really. They are older than yours and this frees me up from taking any part or wasting any energy even looking at his parenting skills. You are the kids example of normal so I would just keep on as you are, also a wee reminder this wont be forever, they grow up fast and then this will be over.x

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SerenityRUS


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I guess what threw me was the therapist suggesting they do the work in terms of things to do around town.

Luiza, .. my kids are 10 and 15, smart as all get out. They have experienced a visitation where he started drinking and they said ohhhh nooooo .. he wound up going to jail .. VERY long story .. oi .. it was a little over a year at this point. This past weekend would have been the 1 year since the psych ward .. sooo .. it is what it is kind of deal. I have an amazing parenting agreement .. they decide what is and isn't ok in terms of do they go on visitation or do they not. He hasn't exercised his 2 weeks of summertime visitation .. that is HIS choice and in another week I will point that out .. he had 2 weeks of shut down he could have at least taken them during the day. He chose not to .. that's on him.

LC, .. my kids have seen how he has treated me, seen how he treats them .. it's an interesting dichotomy to watch for them. He will pit them against each other and they won't allow it .. in soooo many ways they are far wiser than I am and I defer to their better judgment .. I guess I need to defer to them on this issue as well it is THEIR visitation for what it's worth and maybe if they have more say in it although I don't see THAT going smoothly either .. LOL .. it will work better for them. It's not about wasting energy, he's NOT parent of the year .. it doesn't take an idiot to figure that out .. so that's a mute point .. lol .. I don't want to contribute to his mentality of "just don't pay" that also slides into "just don't do the work in a relationship" mentality.

The bottom line is I need to move completely away and even my mom agreed .. as soon as the divorce is final I need to get out of town even if I stay in the state .. moving where he actually HAS to do work in the relationship he won't see them. It will be a mute point on his part. I hate moving the kids from their support system .. it has to hurt like hell to know he's down the road and doesn't give a crap about anything except rationalizing his behavior.

Anyway, hugs and thanks.

__________________

Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism.  If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown

"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Breakingfree


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I am glad I live almost 2 hours from my exAH and he just blew it with my kids on their last visit and it made me decide if he wants to fight to see them then do it otherwise I am done sending my kids to him. Alcohol devastates everyone it touches and I am ready for it to stop for my children, it rarely affects me, but for them it still hurts. I had to start all over by myself where I knew no one and it all worked out very well and I have lots of friends I have met by working and going to school. Things are much better now and I will never let an A run my life again. You are headed in the right direction and work a good program! Sending you love and support on your journey!

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Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree

Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666

" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."

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Debilyn


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It's funny how one keeps saying they are choosing to stay out if it yet giving it so much attention!

Hey I get why. ok to me it is simple. If he blows it and they want to come home, it's their time with him, it's their choice if they want to come home!

Doesn't matter to me why, they just do. Kids are smart, they know where they don't feel comfortable.

I agree with you, it's not their job to arrange the visits! That to me is an awful responsibility to put on a kid! I am sure they do not plan the agenda they have with you. You are a parent, not a guide to go to the zoo or movie or whatever!

What he does he has a right to do. Its sad of course, but its a fact he is hopeless as far as being a dad.

if he wonders why they want to go home, that is up to them and him to talk about it. If they don't want to see him, they can tell him that! I would leave it totally to them.

Then i would encourage the kiddos to talk to me and I will not judge, just listen. maybe sayin wow how did that make you feel? what do you think about that? whatever.

hugs, debilyn



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"It's not so much being loved for ourselves, but more for being loved in spite of ourselves."

       http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/meetings/meeting.html            Or call: 1-888-4alanon
SerenityRUS


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And this is ME reasoning things out so I don't text him, or do something where I really don't belong.



__________________

Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism.  If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown

"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
glad


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I can't believe how many BAD Therapist there are.... wow wow woW



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PP


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I do not believe it was an appropriate recommendation that your kids be responsible for being the camp directors during the visitation with their dad.  How do the kids feel about this suggestion?  I don't know how I would handle this... how frustrating.   I know, though, that you and your kiddos will figure something out.  I wish you the best Serenity.



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Paula
SerenityRUS


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Well .. I GET what she was doing .. the kids are MISERABLE dealing with him with what he wants to do and honestly .. think about it .. it's a LOT of time to watch movies, eat and go to the mall ,.. literally that's what they do .. I have a 10 year old boy who has discovered the joys of playing outside. My girl would rather be doing her own thing, however she doesn't go neither does my youngest I have the same mindset as BF on that one. Let him take me to court .. he will loose. She knows she needs to try to have a relationship she may not like what his behavior is .. he is her dad.

So part of them planning things out is so it's not so overwhelming when he comes up with something new to do it's not just one thing. She's trying to find ways for the kids to connect with their dad .. again .. I GET that .. it's like I told her .. it's not up to them to foster the relationship. Honestly .. what the hell do I know about fostering relationships? I don't. I have a strained relationship with my mother. I am not on speaking terms with my own absent father .. I tried .. I'm to much of a reminder that he "failed" as a parent, not to mention I'm not blood ... there is a whole plethora of issues with that one .. LOL. Last year alone I decided to terminate the relationship I had with one of my closets friends because as his s/mom she can't see him clearly and constantly made me doubt myself.

This is where things get all murky for me. No one the therapist included is expecting that this is going to be a bed of roses .. I'm just saying the kids were miserable doing what they were doing this weekend and they are really NOT interested doing what Dad wants to do.

The more I think about it the more I realize that this is how they will get the most out of the visit. They will have the best time on their terms. Coming home because they are bored is NOT an option so they are going to have to figure out how to get creative with time with their dad. So it IS about them and NOT about what HE wants to do.

What I see is winter will come and he will be refusing to take them. Again that's on HIM .. I could care less about that part of the deal .. I do need to recharge so I guess I will have to build a better network of people I can count on and deal with building relationships. I have some REALLY great friends since all this has started and met wonderful people. I am very blessed.

It's trusting the kids and they are good kids with good decision making abilities .. LOL .. they have to be sense their dad has NONE!!!

Hugs S :)

PS - HE is living in fantasyland BIG time .. I'm starting to see how scary it all is.

__________________

Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism.  If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown

"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Debilyn


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oh good. I was just hoping you were not allowing it to eat your tummy up! You are an excellent mom. As you can see our other single mom is having a heck of a time too!

BF and you are both strong women. Its sure been humbling to watch you guys progress!

 



__________________

Putting HP first, always  <(*@*)>

"It's not so much being loved for ourselves, but more for being loved in spite of ourselves."

       http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/meetings/meeting.html            Or call: 1-888-4alanon
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Miracles In Progress 12 Step Recovery Forums -> Al-Anon Family Group -> Al-Anon Family Group -> Perspectives please ..