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It is 12:10pm here and although my husband has been awake for a while he was all the time in bed on his tablet (he did work had the whole week so I am not begrudging him for being in bed on his 1st day off after 6 days at work) however...
He never had breakfast or anything to it but just asked my our 7 year old to go to the fridge, get him a bottle of beer and bring to him in the bedroom.
I don't think it is a good example for her and I don't want my daughter to think this is normal behaviour and I don't want him to involve her on his drinking.
Should I say something? What and how? The whole say what you mean and mean what you say and don't say it mean and all that...suggestions please?
Before Alanon, I would just storm in the bedroom and create a scene, or say something very sarcastic, or just sulk and get angry and keep the anger inside, but now I know I can handle it better and don't need to take this step right now while my daughter is watching...
Your ESH please.
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Sometimes the smallest step in the right direction ends up being the biggest step of your life. Tip toe if you must but take the step.
I set boundaries that I needed to protect me and my happiness. I had set many with my son without the attitude behind it. One time action/example is not enabling.
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Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
I don't think it will do any good. He might not ask her in front of you, but he probably will if you're not around. Then, both of them will share a secret from Mommy. It's also a lot to ask a 7 year old not to get her Dad a beer when she's asked to do so. At 7, daughters are often "in love" with their Daddies in a little girl sort of way. I don't think its a battle I'd try to fight. But that is me. When in doubt, don't might be a suggestion I'd employ with this one. I'd also ask for God's guidance on it before it happens again or as it happens because it will happen again.
I would not wait for the next time. You can say what Cathy suggested at any time by calmly prefacing "I don't want to argue but I need to say: (insert boundary)" Then calmly repeat boundary and disengage/walk away when he gets all huffy and tries to complain and turn it into an argument.
I wouldn't get his beers either if you don't feel like it. That boundary I would state along the lines of "I don't want to be a part of your drinking at all but I know you are a grown up and make your own decisions so you can get your own beers." Of course he will probably turn that around next time you ask for help from him and say that you are a grown up and to do it yourself....in which case you can explain that the boundary on you fetching beers for him is different and not courteous or helpful since he's shown a pattern of destructive drinking and you have not for whatever you are asking him to help with (hopefully).
Just like if you were diabetic or had a compulsive overeating issue - It would be his prerogative to not cut you a fat slice of cake every time you asked.
Of course, setting boundaries with a drunk is often tiring and the nasty feedback and stuff is part of why people still choose to leave. Boundaries help and they are for you to be true to yourself but they don't always make living with an alcoholic tolerable.
That's been my experience, PC. Setting boundaries with a drunk is tiring and the nasty feedback and stuff does put the partner in a position where boundary setting - especially with kids involved - doesn't always work. My kids - especially my son - would see me to be the bad guy and his Dad to be the fun guy. Any limits or boundaries set had to come with a whole lot of weighing and praying - especially when the Dad was like a kid himself and wanted what he wanted when he wanted it and my children just wanted peace between us. I'd be more inclined to set boundaries when it comes to major things that can adversely affect my kids than to limit who brings Dad a beer. I wouldn't bring him a beer - not just because I don't want to help him drink but because he can get his own beer. But, put a child in the mix and that is the hard part. My son and his Dad formed a bond by setting themselves against any healthy boundary or limit I set for me and for my children. Drunks sabotage what a Mom tries to do with her children unless they totally check out - at least that was true in my experience.
We had this issue with my soon to be brother in law. Not sure if he's alcoholic or not, but their father was and he's showing some signs. He thought it was cool and funny and was giving props to his 12 year old son for being able to make him great martinis. He literally taught the 12 year old how to mix and serve martinis. My partner and future mother in law about when ballistic over that.... So inappropriate.
**And the ironic thing is that the "offender" in question has been to so much alanon because of their father...WTF. You would think he would know better.
-- Edited by pinkchip on Saturday 28th of June 2014 07:38:19 AM
That, to me, is a major boundary issue, PC. Cripe! Having alcohol in the home with kids to me is a major issue. For my son, drugs and alcohol no-nos became like the forbidden fruit to him and a reason to sympathize with his Dad as to what a "B" I was for not allowing either thing to be in our home. I do think that sometimes in our Al-Anon groups, there are non-treated As but they are so focused on the progressed disease in another A, they don't recognize it in themselves. This most certainly is a cunning, baffling and powerful disease. Add children to it and wow! It's a wonder any of us can maintain our own sanity. I fought like heck to get my kids away from that and pot and now lawmakers are legalizing it or reducing charges to something near a traffic violation. Who is crazy? Me or the lawmakers? People are dying from alcohol poisoning at an alarming rate and still we say that alcohol in moderation is okay. Geez. Maddening to me.
Luiza, I do believe that you will know what to do when it comes time to do it and maybe that time is now and maybe later. Although the disease is powerful, our HP is untouched by it and can lead those of us who have children at home. I have learned that when I am troubled by something deeply, going to f2f meetings is more than a help. I go in confused and come out knowing exactly what the next right step for me is.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Saturday 28th of June 2014 08:00:53 AM
A drunk or not.....mean it....and if crossed give the look in the eyes then walk. It will get through. That's my way
If it's something very serious the consequences of crossing boundaries might be police or gone. Appropriate action for the seriousness of the problem. I know this comment is not what is happening in this case but if you want it to stop you have to take action. I found out the hard way.
We all do things in different ways Luiza so think about it, pray about it and it will come.
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Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
How will you feel if you don't say anything? I know that I might get grumpy with myself if I did not say anything. Do what feels right for you I like the way you are using your tools and wanting to do things differently though.
I remember one time when I kept the message simple and to the point. AH did something incredibly stupid which was to take the bottom two struts off a piece of scaffolding while I was at the top of the scaffolding. I was wobbling around like crazy! I kept calm (to climb down at that point would have made things twist and break) and simply asked him to put the struts back on. When I finally got back onto terra firm I looked him in the eye and said 'don't ever do that again.' It worked
So many good responses. In my situation, if my husband would have asked (maybe he was and I did not know about it) my children to get him his beer, I would have intervened. I don't know your situation...this is a good one to discuss with a sponsor.
It was right after I posted here, I went into the bedroom to get something and my daughter was out, couldn't hear me so I said calmly:
_Please don't ask daughter to get beer for you anymore.
He said : _ok
I had to say something because back in the day when I was around 10/11 years old, my mum would make my sister and I go out and buy beer for her...we had to go together and carry this big bag very heavy and full of bottles and even arrange it nicely inside the fridge! Yes, in my home country they used to sell alcohol for children and she had a tab anyway, such a good customer...
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Sometimes the smallest step in the right direction ends up being the biggest step of your life. Tip toe if you must but take the step.
What beattie said rings true for me .. so glad she posted what I was thinking .. I don't have to live with the repercussions of that statement either. So easy for me to say.
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
I did have to live with the repercussions and still do. And he's been dead for years. Even after I divorced him and made sure our home was free of alcohol and drugs, he found ways around it. Sad, but true. I could say whatever I wanted, put up any boundary I wanted and enforce it - nothing phased him. He was a very, very sick man who hated not being seen as the "Captain of the Ship," on all matters. He never suffered any repercussions legally for drinking or for drugs. Don't ask me why. He just didn't. But, my son sure has.
I do hope the boundary works for you in this situation, Luiza. I learned that I could say what I meant, meant what I said, didn't say it mean and the disease kept on doing what it wanted to do. I think you did what you saw is right for you and I think that is a powerful step in self-care and self-validation. You were aware of something you didn't like. You accepted your awareness and how you felt about your husband asking his daughter to get him a beer. You asked for guidance. Then you acted and let go of the results. Powerful Al-Anon.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Saturday 28th of June 2014 06:55:41 PM
-- Edited by grateful2be on Saturday 28th of June 2014 07:30:55 PM
I just didn't want to make a big issue of it and make my daughter worried about the fact that I have a problem with the drinking and be caught in the middle and confused...
Imagine if he asks her again and she would be in two minds, should she obey him or me???
But is fine. I won't tell her that she is forbidden to get beer for him and leave it all to God. I can only hope he will not ask again.
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Sometimes the smallest step in the right direction ends up being the biggest step of your life. Tip toe if you must but take the step.
Luiza .. I have a 15 year old and a 10 year old and honestly ... they go off of my requests/suggestions .. what I have shared with them is this .. their dad's drinking issue is his issue .. they do not have to participate in it regardless if he pitches a fit or not. During an awful visitation my daughter called me hysterical .. asking me to pick them up from visitation he was drinking.
He also knows .. they will call the police as we have had to go down this road. I think it helps that my daughter is 15 and my son takes his cues during visitation from her. She takes her cues from me.
The one thing I still struggle with in program and it's because honestly .. my childhood and the fact my mother didn't protect me is .. children have no choice and no voice. It is MY job as a parent to make sure if my kids can't speak for themselves I help them find their voice by laying out reasonable boundaries.
Both of my kids are in counseling .. if alateen is available in your area .. you may want to consider it for your child .. I lived in the denial that if I protected my kids from their dad in terms of shielding them from the truths of the situations that everything would be fine for them. So not the case my darling daughter wound up with anxiety so bad and my son can be very ridged in some ways. Since I have left their dad .. things have changed for the better .. alcoholism .. it's a family disease and when I thought my children were not watching and taking things in .. they really were .. so know .. your daughter is probably more aware of issues than you realize. My kids are not stupid .. they knew more what was up and how their dad was caught in the grips of the disease than I did.
Maybe you don't need to tell her she's "forbidden" from getting her dad a beer .. she does have the right to say "no".
Hugs S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Luiza: I admire your willingness to listen to your own HP and act on what you hear. You know your daughter and your husband and your situation better than anybody and you are willing to trust yourself and act in the ways that feel right to you. Again - I see that to me good Al-Anon. In my experience, leaving things like this to your HP after doing what you can do that makes sense to you can make all the difference in the world to your stress level and to your daughter's. Being a Mom who is married to a man with this disease does require a lot of weighing and praying in my experience and the answers reside in our hearts. You are one strong woman, Luiza. I have so appreciated your shares.
Well you've made the request of him and that's about all you can do. Besides it not being right to have your little girl be a part of his drinking, my heart goes out to you and your sister too because you were asked to lug beer home for your mum and put the bottles on the shelves in the refrigerator. I'm sorry you and your sister were spending time doing that instead of playing with friends. The disease of alcoholism has no boundaries. I hope in a way you felt you took your power back as an adult today by speaking for your 7 year old daughter. I think you handled it very well. (((hugs)) TT
-- Edited by tiredtonite on Sunday 29th of June 2014 09:52:38 PM
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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
This reminds me of a member who told the group one night that her alcoholic told her to "get him a drink" (she had been in recovery for a while and had learned to slow down her reactions and to "think" (one of our slogans) and so she went into the kitchen and came back with a glass of water. Never had to do that again. I also had the experience of being at an Alateen planning meeting at the coordinator home when her dry alcoholic came into the meeting and asked her to get stuff from the refrigerator for him and his AA friends. Without looking up from our tasks she calmly said. "The refrigerator is in the same place as it was this morning"...done!! We almost fell out of our chairs. What a lesson in responsible enabling. Actions do speak louder than words...body language is the greater part of communications. That is why I think of Al-Anon as a walk program not a talk program. Still I can be accused.... (((((hugs)))))
I like the way you are using your tools and wanting to do things differently though.