So, How should I have reacted for the best? - Al-Anon Family Group

Luiza · Senior Member

So, How should I have reacted for the best?

Luiza · Senior Member

him he is in denial and every alcoholic thinks the same way he thinks right now.

Back story is: In the past his drinking was awful and it has got better but it is still too much for my liking. But I don't know if I am letting my bad experiences with parents who are heavy drinkers cloud my judgement.

He has the right to drink and go to the pub of course. I just don't want to be anxious every time that I know he is drinking out of the home. Also all the spending. I just can't understand and accept all the spending...

So, I just wanted him to want to come home when he saw me instead of his colleague having to tell him.
Was I expecting too much?

I said ok when he said he was going for a last drink but made such a sour face that his colleague told him to come with me...What should I have done differently?
It has been three days since and we are still not talking about the fight.
He says he will talk when he is ready.
He usually is quickly in wanting to make amends and swipe problems under the carpet but not this time...he is acting differently. Probably thinking in separation as well.

And I am seeking help for myself. I don't want to worry about his drinking anymore.

-- Edited by Luiza on Thursday 5th of June 2014 01:24:21 PM

-- Edited by Luiza on Thursday 5th of June 2014 01:25:21 PM

-- Edited by Luiza on Thursday 5th of June 2014 01:25:59 PM

-- Edited by Luiza on Thursday 5th of June 2014 03:59:54 PM

Luiza · Senior Member

I think people are reading but no one is commenting...

Maybe it is because I come from another (parenting) forum where the members are very active replies instantly.

Not sure if I done anything wrong or broke the talk guidelines.
Sorry I am new here.

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

No Luiza, you haven't broken any guidelines. People are usually pretty quick here, but it does depend on schedules of everyone. The nice thing here is that we are global, so sometimes when you put something up real late at night, you get a comment from Scotland or New Zealand.

When my wife was active, she constantly broke my expectations. This is a woman that for years hated breaking expectations, after all she is an adult child of alcoholics, and she (used to) put a lot of stress on herself to be as perfect and helpful as possible. but once alcohol started taking control of her, she couldn't deal with being consistent, or really any expectations.

In response, my wishes and expectations just got higher. Don't want her to drink anymore, want her to be rational again, don't want her passed out on the couch at 6:30 PM, don't want her to wonder what the hell is wrong with us on Christmas day when she gave us weird presents and we weren't a perfect happy family.

I realized after awhile that having expectations of her was setting me up for resentment. I read something on here that struck me - resentment is the codependent's hangover. And it certainly was. She would wake up in the morning after a binge, half the time she was in a great mood, forgot everything from the night before, and I would have to tell her what she had done - passed out, then went upstairs and went to bed with her clothes on, no teethbrushing etc. So I finally just gave up my expectations. Whatever you do is fine. But I won't help you when you are drinking. That helped a lot to save my serenity.

In Al Anon, I finally accepted that I was powerless over alcohol, which meant I was powerless over a lot of other things too, including my wife's behavior. I suddenly felt free to give up a lot of other controlling behaviors suddenly. And my controlling behaviors were terribly passive/aggressive, so they were really annoying to anyone, sober or drunk. That was part of my part in it.

I have been amazed at how much power admitting powerlessness has given me. I was able to finally wake up to choices that I had, both in my behavior and my situation. I came to the point where I believed that I didn't have any choices, but I did. They were just choices that I didn't want to face.

I hope you can find that power in Al Anon. A book you can order even now is "How Al Anon Works", it is great at explaining why Al Anon is the way it is, and things to expect in your relationship. If you have an ereader, you can also download a book from Amazon called "Getting Them Sober" from Toby Rice Drews. Both of those books changed how I look at alcoholics, and behave towards them.

I believe you are becoming aware of your powerlessness by saying "I don't want to worry about his drinking anymore." We've all been there, and that is just the start of understanding that you didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you won't cure it.

Keep coming back here, there is also a wealth of good information in these forums.

Peace
Kenny

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

Luiza wrote:

And I am seeking help for myself. I don't want to worry about his drinking anymore.

-- Edited by Luiza on Thursday 5th of June 2014 01:25:59 PM

Luiza, Nooo you are right where you belong: HERE.....I don't ppost much on folks who are with active A's only b/c I walked away from all of mine....I did not want to be tormented by them anymore, I did not cause their drinking, could not control their drinking...sure couldn't cure their drinking.....it was either stay and be miserable, or get up and take care of me......leave or stay, the bottom line is that you work on you,.....i do hope u will get into our meetings here on line or preferably face to face meets near where you live....find a sponsor to guide you through the 12 steps, practice the slogans, read the literature and put into practice what you learn and the #1 first thing is to accept that you are totally powerless over his drinking....he is an addict...he will either get into AA or he won't and if he does not, his drinking will progress and worsen, then comes the job losses, hospital stays, legal troubles if he drinks and drives, and then the worsening health and then death....the only hope for him is to arrest this by sobering up, getting into AA and working a strong program for himself....but he has to want the help....i have two alkie brothers who do not want help....i washed my hands of their disease and the problems they get into....i love them, enjoy chatting with them, but i do not lift a finger to help them out of their troubles when they get into trouble....let them reap what they sow......so far their legal and medical problems have not driven them into AA and sobriety so its their choice.....i let go and take care of me.....thats all i can do........

please give this program a chance.....as to "reacting" reacting is letting another yank our emotional chain......ACTING is taking care of us.......program will show you how to be an actor in your own life, not a reactor to his problems that he is causing......

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

Just wanted to say welcome to you Luiza

You tell your story really well and its great to read that you want to find help for yourself. Finding Alanon has helped me so much, especially face to face meetings. The folks here at MIP are wonderful and reading the posts here helps me to realise that our problems are not exclusive to us - there are others in the same boat.

Luiza · Senior Member

*you didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you won't cure it*

Well there were times in the past when he tried to tell me, he was drinking because of whatever problem at work or at home (my fault of course) and if I just was a little bit different or behaved in a certain way, so maybe he wouldn't get so drunk anymore...guess what? I believed and tried to do whatever he wanted me to, but obviously, he got drunk again.
And the resentment builds up.

But how to completely give up expectations? For example if we agree on a Sunday that he will come home early on Monday and cook dinner, but I get home on Monday and he is not at home and there is no dinner? Should I always have a plan B? It sounds exhausting..
What if the expectation is regarding my daughter...I would worry sick if I need to go somewhere (Al-Anon meeting for instance) and he is in charge of collecting her somewhere but he forgets and go drinking instead...?
As you can imagine, I don't have much of a life as my work allows me to take care of my daughter when she is not at school and I plan all of our activities not including him as I never know when he will be at home 5 days out of 7. He work long hours and when he has an early shift can't be trusted to be back straight away.

My H also *put a lot of stress on himself to be as perfect and helpful as possible* but this seems to be at work and with work colleagues. At home he is not helpful at all, not from his own initiative at least. And the irony is that he sometimes say family comes first...it seems that in his eyes, paying the rent is enough.

As he never been to an AA meeting and says his drink problem is not so extreme, I can't say for sure if he really is an A or not.
Maybe I am too in denial. Maybe I just don't want to believe I had such poor judgement by getting together with him..
However, A or not, his drinking makes me anxious and I am tired of being a control freak.
My dad was an A who ruined his life and now lives in a limbo.
My mum always drank heavily so did her mum and her partner after my dad.
Even me, I drunk a lot when younger, but decided not to ever get drunk again in January 2006 and never had a problem since.
I just don't know what is normal drinking and what is not anymore.
My H says I am over reacting since drinking is part of British Culture (?) and rifle in his line of work (catering).
But I am not doing this for him anyway. I am doing for myself. Need to get my focus back and stop being anxious and angry.

Thanks

-- Edited by Luiza on Thursday 5th of June 2014 04:53:06 PM

Cathyinaz · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome Luiza

This might help you some... Keep coming back because your not alone.

Millions of people are affected by the excessive drinking of someone close. The following questions are designed to help you decide whether or not you need Al-Anon:

1. Do you worry about how much someone drinks?

2. Do you have money problems because of someone elses drinking?

3. Do you tell lies to cover up for someone elses drinking?

4. Do you feel that if the drinker cared about you, he or she would stop drinking to please you?

5. Do you blame the drinkers behavior on his or her companions?

6. Are plans frequently upset or canceled or meals delayed because of the drinker?

7. Do you make threats, such as, If you dont stop drinking, Ill leave you?

8. Do you secretly try to smell the drinkers breath?

9. Are you afraid to upset someone for fear it will set off a drinking bout?

10. Have you been hurt or embarrassed by a drinkers behavior?

11. Are holidays and gatherings spoiled because of drinking?

12. Have you considered calling the police for help in fear of abuse?

13. Do you search for hidden alcohol?

14. Do you ever ride in a car with a driver who has been drinking?

15. Have you refused social invitations out of fear or anxiety?

16. Do you feel like a failure because you cant control the drinking?

17. Do you think that if the drinker stopped drinking, your other problems would be solved?

18. Do you ever threaten to hurt yourself to scare the drinker?

19. Do you feel angry, confused, or depressed most of the time?

20. Do you feel there is no one who understands your problems?

If you have checked any of these questions, Al-Anon may be able to help. Find a meeting now.

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Luiza,

BY having no expectations, that would mean not counting on him, yes. I have had plan B in place on a few occasions, some people live with always having a plan A and plan B. Not asking him for anything would be another possibility, just being glad that you have his time when you have it. My wife has had two drunk-driving charges against her - the second one when she was trying to pick our son up from school, so yes, I worried about her having access to the car, and took away keys regularly.

I encourage you to look around this site. there are many members that have chosen to live with their spouses, and there many that have chosen not to. I chose to live with mine, but she is now in recovery since she got picked up on the 2nd DUI and things are going well. If she hadn't gotten into recovery, I would have started to look at alternatives.

Simultaneous to not having expectations, enabling also had to go. I got so bad that I actually bought my wife wine once, I figured she would buy it herself anyway, and I didn't have to hear her mouth when I got home from the grocery. Various other things like covering up for her when she missed events, helping her go to bed when she could barely get off the couch, all that ended. As long as I made it easy for her to get drunk, why should she stop? When she hit bottom, 2n DUI in a jail cell for 10 days, she finally surrendered her will to recovery, and that's when she got better. She could relapse any day, but right now it's good, and I'm glad I didn't leave her.

The shame in her was awful. She was totally ashamed of herself, but the addiction kept her talking arrogantly to me as long as she thought she could pull it off. She knew she was ruining our life, she knew she was starting to ruing her relationship with our 13 yo son. She valued nothing more than that, but she couldn't quit. Only that shock of hitting the jail cell and staying there, with a detox in an unfriendly environment finally did it to her. You would think ruining her family's life would be enough to make her stop, but addictions are strong, and make us do horrible things.

BTW normal drinking or not doesn't matter in my opinion. What matters to you is what matters to you. Everybody is an individual and has there own definition of what bothers them. Whether he is an A or not, what matters is what you think and what you are willing to tolerate.

Kenny

Luiza · Senior Member

Thank you guys so much.
Thank you Kenny for sharing. I am glad to hear your partner is doing well. And I think that now I understand why my H refuses to have a drive license and a car.
I have now this feeling that I can keep going forward even if he refuses to.

Luiza · Senior Member

But please answer the question:

Even though I said ok to him go get the last drink with his colleague I also made such a sour face that his colleague picked up on it and told him to go with me.
Was this wrong? Should I have made an effort to not show my feelings?

Also talking to him about how disappointed I was that he forgot to come home to cook dinner and that it was his colleague's idea to give up on the last drink instead of his...Should I kept my opinions to myself and just ignore his behaviour?

It is going to be hard for me not to count on him or ask him for anything. He is the other parent and he needs to share responsibilities. I am changing careers with a new job starting soon. I don't want to spend all my life having to adjust every aspect of mine and my daughter's life to his agenda. Even if we separate.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

welcome dear one,

Ya see he is very sick with a disease. No we cannot ever depend on them for anything. A marriage to an A or addict is not going to be like being married to a non addict.

I found for me all I could do was love him. What he did was his own business. I expected nothing from him. He is sick in every way when he is drinking. He cannot just stop, saying he is in control is denial. but that is his business.

I believe we accept them as they are, learn al anon ways to live with them as best we can. leave it the same, or leave or they leave.

They have a right to be who they are, we do not have the right to ask them to change.

I would NEVER leave a child or animal with an active A. never. Its dangerous.

as far as him not keeping his promises...that is up to you.Myself i would say hey honey do you remember you were going to cook tonight? IF he is icky, then I would say ok well how does some lasagna sound i have in the freezer?

I just had no expectations at all. Boundaries yes. He knew to never be mean to my animals or he would be out the door. he knew he had to work or work on our place or out too.

they get worse as time goes on as our bodies break down when saturated with alcohol. organs are damaged, brains are literally pickled.

its a horrible disease.

I hope you keep coming. it is a very, very difficult disease with many symptoms, at first overwhelming.

as far as anxiety, the less you expect of him the less you will feel anxiety. breath, drop your elbows.I would say the serenity prayer over and over. We can choose to let any expectations of them go. just love them how they are, and glean as much time with them as we can while they are still loveable, and not super sick yet.

hugs!

Once you accept it is a disease, you believe it, you will come to realize there is nothing to be mad at or sour about. Its the disease making things a mess,not him. When we disengage ourselves from their disease we free ourselves. Its his problem up to him to change things or not.

I am sorry, really. It's not easy living with an AH. Your learning and finding out so many truths about the disease will help you. Your ah is a very sick man, believes his lies. I mean honestly believes them-

-- Edited by Debilyn on Thursday 5th of June 2014 07:31:54 PM

Luiza · Senior Member

I think my first step will have to understand and accept it is a disease.
Even if we separate.
Just now I just see it as selfishness and immaturity.
I have too much anger, not only towards him but also my parents.

Kerrymom · Senior Member

Hugs! I understand the anger, I was so angry at my AH and thought he was choosing alcohol over me and kids, but have to believe it is a disease and he doesn't have control either. He could work at recovery but is still in denial. Al anon has helped SO much, and I was so relieved to know I wasn't crazy, there is a problem, and many have lived through the same situations., and there's understanding you can't get from friends and family who haven't lived with an A. This board as you have found is awesome! Take care of you!

maryjane · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Luiza,
I don't respond very much but this caught my eye. You talk a lot about him and "he has a right to have a few drinks". I would like to ask you what are YOUR rights?

When we have a newcomer meeting at my local AlAnon groups, I always say I have compassion for the alcoholic because they surely don't ask to have this disease. And I also add that I didn't ask to have this problem with him either. Sure, he has his rights. I also have my rights. I can't forget about that and that is why I go to AlAnon..... to keep the focus on ME.

And the answer is not "well, then, just leave". There are ways to live that give the rights and responsibilities of drinking back to the alcoholic. And ways to protect children from the worst of the fallouts. And ways to live in OUR truth and not trust the lies that are floating all around.

Keep coming back and AlAnon will sink into your pores and you will be much more comfortable with life all around you. You will learn to live life whether he is drinking or not drinking. You will learn how to give his responsibilities back to him.

Take care of yourself.

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

Luiza wrote:
But please answer the question:

Even though I said ok to him go get the last drink with his colleague I also made such a sour face that his colleague picked up on it and told him to go with me.
Was this wrong? Should I have made an effort to not show my feelings?

Also talking to him about how disappointed I was that he forgot to come home to cook dinner and that it was his colleague's idea to give up on the last drink instead of his...Should I kept my opinions to myself and just ignore his behaviour?

It is going to be hard for me not to count on him or ask him for anything. He is the other parent and he needs to share responsibilities. I am changing careers with a new job starting soon. I don't want to spend all my life having to adjust every aspect of mine and my daughter's life to his agenda. Even if we separate.

Hi Luiza,

We have a slogan in Al Anon. Actually, we have lots of slogans, but this is one of my favorites and is applicable here. Say what you mean, mean what you say, and don't say it mean.

I believe everyone is allowed to talk. In fact, it is the not talking that helps the alcoholism grow, just like lack of light helps mold to grow. But, talking with an A is also something different than talking with others.

So, instead of making a face, simply saying something stating facts would be good. I made faces for years, and finally realized that it was just a passive/aggressive control, I was too afraid to say what I meant, so made a face that could be interpreted however by anybody.

If you state facts, then you will have said what you mean. And you can keep from being mean about it that way too, instead of letting your emotions get into it, which will just hinder communication in these exchanges.

Also, when my wife would start arguing back after I had done this, I would just walk away. She apparently wasn't ready to hear it, and there is nothing else to say about it, so I was done. I had said my peace. Her retorts were normally ways of putting blame for a problem back on me, and I knew it wasn't there because I was just stating facts, not a blame.

Keep coming back!

Kenny

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