The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Well I did a lot more research on PTSD today and I have to respectfully disagree with assessments of martyrdom.
This is research from the leading psychologists.
KEEP IN MIND: Although it is common for people with PTSD to feel very guilty about what happened to them or the way that they acted during the trauma, these thoughts and feelings are false. No one can predict the future, so you could not have predicted the trauma occurring. Also, it is easy to think about what you should have done, after it has already happened: knowing what you could have done (if you had predicted the trauma before it happened) does not mean that you are wrong or to blame for what you did do (see Realistic Thinking for more information).
A therapist can help you to talk through these thoughts and feelings, which is an important step toward coping with your PTSD.
for a long time i felt guilt and shame b/c i didn't "fight him off me" better at age 14 or so....working in program, reading books, working workbooks by Ellen Bass taught me that the offender had all the power...he was my FATHER, he was my provider, he held all the power as i had NONE.....even so, it took a hell of a lot of work on my part to stop blaming me for not putting a stop to him, and as i mentally deteriorated as the years went by, by age 18 when i was "legally an adult" i was so mentally and emotionally disturbed, yea, i got away from him, but i was too incapable of looking after myself....my grand father ended up shipping me back to him at just about 21 yrs. old when i was a problem drinker and too much for him to help, the abuse started up again, but this time I found a way out for good....
i think i had the greatest guilt about it beginning again when i was sent back to him...i have to remind myself i was just too sick and a trained victim, too messed up to really defend myself, but even then, i conived and stole from him to make my final escape......
there is no magic age for "growing up" a trained victim is a trained victim until they get some help to UNtrain that sick mind...i met folks who suffered this into their early 30's in this one incest group i was in.....I understood and empathized with their plight b/c if a fighter like i am can be beaten down, mentally, anyone can....he worked on me starting at a very early age...I was strong...not easy to overcome, but as a child, i was just no match for him....
then it was months after i got out for the final time i had my mental breakdown...I just collapsed, goign down my apartment steps...dont remember a thing except i lost all feeling in my body, felt like i was "floating" and numb and i went down those steps the hard way....my neighbor found me at the bottom of the steps and called my mother...horrible choice on his part, but she did have mercy enough to take me to our local doctor's clinic.........i was hospitalized in the clinic for about 2-3 days, sorta in a drug coma as they tried to calm my heart and my brain waves down...(heard this after the fact, i was not able to comprehend anything from the time i fell down the steps till i was released on prescribed meds) ,
so when docs found out what meds would work best (librium) i was turned loose....i functioned in that i could work but god almighty i was a mess...i really needed mental health care...in patient care but noone cared...just "band aide" me with drugs and cut me loose......i worked and came home to my little apartment and isolated save for a very few close people......it would be years until i got any mental health assistance and kinda on my own with literature and workbooks, i worked a lot of the stuff out myself, but program really was my saving grace....its a miracle i am even here , much less sane and now recovering....
most people like me turn killer, or they become a suicide statistic or they drink/drug themselves to death......I beat the odds big time.....hoping HP has something good for me to have kept me around this long....
when i look back at just how sick i was, i can't even wrap my mind around it.....
-- Edited by neshema2 on Monday 2nd of June 2014 09:28:01 PM
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
I am so glad you are here to tell me your story. It gives me such hope. When I did the testing that was exactly what they said. You have been trained. Nemesha you are amazing. I have to say I love you....
I disassociated from my body lots because of the panic attacks and could not remember the timeline. Exactly I could have gave up, drank etc. I had a baby by myself, did four years of counseling and went to court. I am proud I did all of that. I thankfully had some very caring nurses and doctors. I did have good friends that supported me and the ones that did not. I ended the relationships because they were "toxic". My mom tried her best to help but she is older and has diabetes and needs to take care of herself.
Well I agree you can have compassion for the sick person because they were doing what was taught to them and they were once a victim themselves. I will not say I had a part in it because I had poor boundaries. I actually had good boundaries my whole life. I cannot predict another person's actions but realistically if the person is showing the same behaviors as dr. Phil says the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.
I am so glad you are here to tell me your story. It gives me such hope. When I did the testing that was exactly what they said. You have been trained. Nemesha you are amazing. I have to say I love you....
I disassociated from my body lots because of the panic attacks and could not remember the timeline. Exactly I could have gave up, drank etc. I had a baby by myself, did four years of counseling and went to court. I am proud I did all of that. I thankfully had some very caring nurses and doctors. I did have good friends that supported me and the ones that did not. I ended the relationships because they were "toxic". My mom tried her best to help but she is older and has diabetes and needs to take care of herself.
((((Truth))))) I can so relate to the disassociation from the body, its like we "split" and why we did that was had I "felt", really, what was happening to me I would have been too overwhelmed, I would not have survived, so at a big price i had to choose emotional and spiritual "death" in order to live...sounds like an oxymoron, but it is the truth...i had to "die" in order to live........disassociating was key....i had to shut down emotionally, mentally, spiritually, my core parts had to literally hide like Nero in the cave when his city was falling apart all around him.....that is what i had to do....when i got into recovery i began, one by one, cutting off all contact w/toxic people who were a hindrence to my recovery.....and i am proud of you too...I see a lot of spunk in you and will to survive....we can survive, we DID survive, and now we can reach out and thrive working our program....sharing w/each other and caring is big......i never would have been able to continue had it not been for these 12 steps programs......that is fact......please hang with us and keep up the sharing b/c we are only as sick as our secrets and NOTHING is going to shock anyone on this board, here, because we all have had our times in hell.....being open has relieved me of a lot of shame and guilt and self loathing b/c I see i am just as acceptable as the next person
there is nothing wrong with me.....just what happened to me........and that does not define the person i am.....it was just a horrible horrible evil done to me....it was his ticket to hell, not mine.......i can let it go b/c it is not on my ledger card.....i can hold my head up b/c i reached out for the light and rejected the darkness i was forced to live in for so long.......i am "ok" with me b/c I am OK....so are you xxoo
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Truth, PTSD is a real disorder for many...and yes being a therapist, I'd be an idiot not to agree it's also worth talking to a therapist regarding any trauma. I also know it is over diagnosed from many many years in the field. Adults also convince themselves they have ADHD when many do not...That's just a fact. What you said about PTSD is true for those who actually have it. Many who claim to have it do not have the symptoms of hypervigilance, flashbacks, and avoidance at levels like you would see in a war vet, hostage, victim of terrorism etc....And yes sometimes domestic violence victims develop PTSD...that is true. However it is frequently told to anyone seeking help after going through trauma that they have PTSD when really they just have a trauma reaction and not the full blown disorder.
That being said, this is alanon and not a PTSD site or victim support group. Alanon is more about wellness and empowerment. Of course you qualify to be here and are valued but not sure if you are buying what alanon is selling...figuratively. Nobody is arguing with you to disagree with. You are just often on other topics. Just my take. Respectfully. I believe your ex is bad news in all likelihood. I believe there is real trauma. You were strong to extricate yourself from that. Still struggling to see how it relates to being affected by someone's drinking but I think you are working on figuring it out too so keep reaching out anyhow. It's all good. Nobody is really here to disagree with anyone.
Truth, there may be something to work on, the need to be right, prove another wrong, is a common symptom of living with alcoholism. Im sad that while your energy is spent on what others say or think you are kind of missing the point of alanon. You are searching about, still looking for answers outside your own mind. I have learned its all about me, the answer to all my pain and discomfort lies within me. How important is it? Try focussing on you, your own thought processes, are they obsessive, focused on others etc. If so then work your program.use the steps, get into it, really into it, you will be amazed at how much they help.
All healing is about wellness and empowerment. I do qualify here and i will be sticking around. I think I will just go with the pychologist opinions I work with here for the last four years. Shaming techniques are not very empowering for me.
Two people can hold two separate opinions. I am allowed my own opinion and I am allowed to disagree with others opinions. Everyone has a right to a voice.
Im not trying to shame you, are you tyring to shame me?
im trying to share my own experience with you. I felt like you did, always looking outward, its not a nice place to be. Alanon has been all I need, its a deeper therapy than any other in my own experience. I feel like you are on the defensive, that gets me on the defensive, not healthy, constructive criticism and questiining may be good for some. I feel its not that helpful. I had to embrace it 100 percent, trust it, believe it completely, trust others that know it. We try to share our experience, what it was like before, the symptoms we had, mostly negative thought processes, and then how we use our alanon tools. So looking in is my suggestion to you, the looking out for reasons is keeping you in the misery.
-- Edited by el-cee on Tuesday 3rd of June 2014 01:55:04 AM
If constructive critism does not work for you I am glad you figured that out. I am completely fine with it. It is not a trigger of mine.
Shaming does not work for me. It is a trigger for me. Shaming says their is something fundamentally wrong with you because you are not doing it my way. Your not healing how I think you should. I need to quiet you. Of course that is a trigger for me, I wasn't allowed to speak. I wasn't allowed to say no. I wasn't allowed boundaries. I had to physically move three hours away to keep my boundaries. I will not abandon my voice again.
You should
I would have
I feel like you
We all have a contribution and their are a 1000 different ways to get to the same spot.
...And yes sometimes domestic violence victims develop PTSD...that is true. However it is frequently told to anyone seeking help after going through trauma that they have PTSD when really they just have a trauma reaction and not the full blown disorder.
That being said, this is alanon and not a PTSD site or victim support group. Alanon is more about wellness and empowerment. Of course you qualify to be here and are valued but not sure if you are buying what alanon is selling...figuratively. Nobody is arguing with you to disagree with. You are just often on other topics. Just my take. Respectfully. I believe your ex is bad news in all likelihood. I believe there is real trauma. You were strong to extricate yourself from that. Still struggling to see how it relates to being affected by someone's drinking but I think you are working on figuring it out too so keep reaching out anyhow. It's all good. Nobody is really here to disagree with anyone.
this is very interesting...I ??? do i have reall PTSD or just trauma reaction....yes, b4 alanon i did have flashbacks and major avoidance, but 12 steps,self discovery has brought me to the point where i can walk through most of my fears....i think my case is trauma reaction dealing with just that trauma, otherwise, i think, through working the steps, research and what little therapy i managed to get, i think i have generalized anxiety disorder and it requires me to regularly take my meds and also work on my self....these 12 steps programs helped me more than anything, alanon, aca, coda...all of them equal blessings to me......i am seeking wellness and empowerment by learning to focus on me, follow the steps which are my bible to healthy living and also the slogans........and all my problems stemmed from substance abuse that i see.....and when i posted on here, i gave my take, based on my recoery and my e/s/h on topic.....
that said, and my thinking w/my sponsor, working w/her, we both are beginning to think, funny you said this PC, but i don't think i have full blown ptsd....i am no longer hypervigilent....I can feel safe....I can take care of me..... i havn't had a nightmare in a long time, thanks to program., i think for me it is gen. anxiety/panic attacks and that to me is due to the damage done to my CNS from sustained trauma......alanon et al has really helped me do self discovery work and i see more hope of me overcomming/managing a lot of my stuff just being here and workign on me........the key is LISTEN....READ......take what i can use and leave the rest.....
instead of fighting anything, its behooves me to read, think, take what works, apply the rest.....these 12 steps, i must say again, have really changed my life....going over nd over the steps.....i work them ea. day in some way....whatever the need and even if there is no need, the steps are in my mind, always there, so are the slogans....
my first sponsor told me that drinking caused my problems, alanon will help me work through that and he was right.....i wont' "come back" all the way, but i have come damned far from where i used to be........
I KNOW i belong here b/c I am HERE and I am HEALING....if something is working for me (alanon et al) than i am gonna stick to it and program is working for me....
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
I learn from Nemesha's insights as well. She is an extremely inspiring person. As she said she could have chose the dark but she reached for the light.
