The material presented
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God I think so differently than most. Poor choices to me is choosing a salad vs a hamburger and fries. Choosing to not brush your teeth vs brushing them.
Choosing to name call, intimidate, rage in front of a child is actually a form of child abuse. I don't consider that a poor choice. I call a spade a spade.
If people want to change they will educate themselves and choose to accept the message.
Yeah, it's amazing what kind of euphemisms people come up with. There are many horribly abused uses of the word "love" especially. I love (sorry to overuse it now lol) that Joyce Meyer quote you have as your avatar.
I was watching a documentary TV show the other night. In it a woman is trying to raise two kids, and has a boyfriend in prison. he is about to get out. The narrator said that the woman may soon have to choose between love and keeping her priorities. To me, there was no choice. If the boyfriend messes with the kids, or won't help when he gets home, or goes back to prison for whatever reason, you choose the kids that are your responsibility.
I think these new attitudes for me are coming directly as a result of being involved in Al Anon and MIP, and I like it. I wish more people thought the way you and I are now thinking!
Kenny the funniest part about it is I have always thought this way. Dr. Phil and I have a similar thought process. Lol
Well I can empathize with the pain, I cannot use denial as a coping mechanism. Sometimes I wish I was one of those people.
Quote: If people want to change they will educate themselves and choose to accept the message.
It was hard for me to learn my part in this mess I was living and it was also hard for me to except the quote: " If nothing changes nothing changes " and that for me was I had to change me. It takes two to tangle and I decided to get completely off the dance floor. To continue to try and understand my son's denial and poor choices was a waste of my time and serenity. I love my son dearly and it hurts but the only way he will learn anything is for me to let go and give him the respect and dignity to learn from the choices he has made good or bad. I will walk in the other direction.......
((( hugs )))
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Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
I went to the best addiction counsellor once. My ex-A kept "showing" up at my house well frequently living on the streets. He said why are you worried he knows that world. I said true enough and went on with my day.
What I did not realize is when he did get into recovery that he would be abusive. He had an affair when he went and then came after me. He got married and divorced. Then he took me to court for access. I did not see him for two 1/2 years. Then we went through this parenting program and he has been abusing/harassing me ever since. All the while his sponsor saying these are "normal" life struggles. Normalizing abnormal behavior.
I got off the dance floor as well. What still peeves me off is if a man is relapsing and continuously having affairs why are you supporting him in exposing his children to that. I don't think some people actually realize that they are "helping" to endanger other people.
You have to stop letting him peeve you off. You have to forget what he's done in the past. It doesn't matter anymore if you want peace. Also I don't know where you live but something is differentially wrong with the system if all you say is fact. Only you can stop the madness because no matter how hard you try and figure him out you will lose big time.
The past is gone...the future you can't predict...you can only live for today..
((( hugs )))
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Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
My son has had some of the most beautiful girls in this world. He is a charmer to say the least. He's gotten off easy because of his charm. You can love him the first time you meet him. But in time it all go's to hell in a hand basket and he wonders why?? HELLO!! I'm sorry but everyone will not be naive in the end will they and I'm sure you can confirm that can't you..
Most alcoholics will move from one enabler to another until there is nothing left....and that's when we pray they take that first step: We admitted we were powerless over alcohol that our lives had become unmanageable.
Let go let HP take over with kindness and understanding.
PS: Have you read the book. " Getting them Sober " great book.
-- Edited by Cathyinaz on Saturday 31st of May 2014 06:54:21 PM
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Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
You have to stop letting him peeve you off. You have to forget what he's done in the past. It doesn't matter anymore if you want peace. Also I don't know where you live but something is differentially wrong with the system if all you say is fact. Only you can stop the madness because no matter how hard you try and figure him out you will lose big time. The past is gone...the future you can't predict...you can only live for today.. ((( hugs )))
PINKCHIP wrote: What did you ever like about this guy? Just wondering...
yea, i agree big time w/Cathy and PC......i was wondering, too, what did you like about this guy??? and Cathy is right....Only YOU can stop the madness and take care of your NOW, which is all you got to TRY and deposit into what future you got.....what we do NOW affects our tomorrows, if we even have tomorrow.....i only live for today as Cathy says here and thats b/c thats all i got...............................just saying
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
The one thing I find funny is that everyone thinks anger is a bad "thing". Anger is often the precursor to change. Don't you think Martin Luther King got angry before he got the courage to make his famous speech.
Have you seen Martin Luther King get angry with the people at the podium? I think he kept to himself and not take it out on the people. I get mad all the time but it's how I deal with it is the question.
Here is a quote I see going to work a lot:
The one you are angry with is the one that controls you.
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Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
Anger is an indication that your boundaries are being crossed. Normal families allow people to say they are angry. It does not mean I have to scream, yell, harass etc. Dysfunctional families do not allow anger.
I would say that FEAR. False Evidence Appearing Real. That if I express or state that I am angry, I won't be liked or loved. I am sure Martin Luther King's family allowed him to talk about the injustices he experienced.
In my family, I was allowed to say that makes me angry or I don't like that. Please stop. No one withdrew their love because I said "no" or because I had a different opinion.
The one thing I find funny is that everyone thinks anger is a bad "thing". Anger is often the precursor to change. Don't you think Martin Luther King got angry before he got the courage to make his famous speech.
i am so glad u said this b/c anger is the precurser to change, setting a boundary, its a signal that i am not being treated right, whatever.....i get pissed and I take action, but to dwell in it..to stay stuck in it was not healthy for me but i had to get through a lot of rage b4 i could hit that "muddy basin" part of my recovery where the sun could finally shine on and dry out all the old slimey sludge that lived in my heart.....now when i get mad, i do a quicky step 10 and do what i gotta do to take care of me...so i don't stay angry...
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Anger is an indication that your boundaries are being crossed. Normal families allow people to say they are angry. It does not mean I have to scream, yell, harass etc. Dysfunctional families do not allow anger.
my family of origin was about as sick and dark as it gets....not only was i denied to show or feel my emotions, but i was actually attacked if i even looked like i was feeling what "they thought" i should feel/not feel....i was robbed of my voice...choice..dignity...safety...you name it.....now, thanks to recovery, those dark days are over with.....and yea, anger means to me my boundaries are being crossed and i am able to and i do say "NO" and i do not let anyone violate my boundaries.....my close circle has changed dramatically since recovery....people have to deserve to be in my close circle and screw blood....to me, family is how they TREAT me, not what our DNA is.....
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
The one you are angry with is the one that controls you.
I agree and disagree both with this, IF that is possible, LOL....i have gotten mad at some folks, but i quickly , now since recovery, take care of me and anger is gone....so they don't control me....to me, if i am angry w/someone, it means i need to change...they only control me if i refuse to take care of me and let them continue to piss me off or step on my boundaries.....hope this made sense....WOW...this is a neat thread
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
I agree. I understood what was going on. Went and learned about abuse. Put in my safety plan. Talked to my lawyer. I changed. Just because I am angry does not mean he is controlling me. It means I am "smart" enough to know he is crossing my boundaries. Just because I speak up about what he does. That does not mean I am playing the victim. The first step on the "safety" plan was tell. Tell your neighbors, tell your boss, ..... Don't stay silent.
What fun stuff did you do with your son this week? How is the rest of your family? How is work? I'd like to hear more about the parts of your life that recovery is aiding to make you happy, joyous, and free. Whether he's an abuser or not, what are you doing to enjoy.your life that has nothing to do with him?
I'm learning about anger - never used to go there but recently I've been told 'sometimes anger is required to facilitate big change' and the other day I actually made a conscious decision to build a fire under my anger by reviewing some of my past journals (I did this because my boundaries were being crossed and I needed some extra energy to enforce them). It was very interesting, each entry that I read was like another log in the fire, only this time I was in control of how big I built the fire.
I've also heard that 'anger turned in on oneself leads to depression'. I can vouch for that! I think these days I'm getting better at looking at my anger, deciding if I can do anything about it and then choosing to focus on something else instead of worrying about it too much. The anger returns from time to time but it is getting less forceful. When I'm ranting mindlessly to myself about AH I think that I am sometimes being unforgiving (angry) against myself for having fallen for his manipulation - that is the anger that ends up undermining my self esteem and ultimately leads me to experiences of depression. Meditation has helped me with this one.
I really like the questions that Pinkchip has asked and might have a go at answering them as well.
Thanks Truth, you've set my old grey cells working in a constructive way this morning
Truth, I learned that I cant control people, If someone crosses my boundary then there is a consequence, for example if someone comes to my house drunk and I let them in unknowingly they have crossed my boundary. So the consequence is I need to change my boundary so I dont answer the door to that person unlesss they call first and I can tell if they are drunk. I dont look for others to blame or work myself up over a disease. I make a choice not to externalise the whole thing. I just adapt to the next set of events always working to improve my own life. Boundaries are ours to protect, the onus is not on the other person, its on us, some alcoholics would cross boundaries in the blink of an eye and think nothing of it. I had to accept that I had to show my boundaries were important so I had to defend them. If they crossed my boundary then I had to see my part in it and make the change to protect it better next time. There little use in looking deep into the reasons they crossed it or take their inventory. Thats allowing them much more of my time and energy and I guard against that because I can quickly become obsessed.
To make progress progress in alanon I have to keep my mind open, listen to the suggestions of other members because they have walked my shoes and learned to think differently, in a way that gave them freedom.if my mind is closed and stuck hard on my old way of thinking then I stay in the problem and cant see the solution. I stay unhappy, bitter and resentful. My mind opened when I got so sick of being sick that I surrendered myself, my way of thinking was not working for me, so when other alanoners talk, I listen.x
