The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
The behaviours that come with addiction are a bit predictable and obvious to me, most tell lies, manipulate others using fear, pity, sympathy etc, most are verbally abusive, some are physically abusive, most are devious and cunning. The list could go on and on but most of the negative behaviours seem to come from a need or desire to not feel feelings or not deal with reality, to hide from life that they perceive to be painful. I can understand this is the disease of alcoholism.
In the rooms of Alanon, the members share their own experiences with these behaviours, the stories are so similar, they may have different specifics but the behaviours are the same, they just get played out in different ways.
If alcoholism has common behaviours and alcoholics mostly have the same negative thought processes then it makes sense that us here in Alanon share/shared the same types of negative behaviours. The reasons why we live or have lived with an alcoholic are the same reasons just with different specific.
When I think of my own behaviours whilst living with my ex then I can see they are very similar to the alcoholics behaviours, I too told lies to cover up reality, I manipulated others to get what I want, I was verbally abusive at times, I wanted attention and sympathy too, I was devious and cunning. This was part of my own disease, my own insecurities and detachment disorder, I needed someone who wouldnt leave me. He was the answer for me.
Being able to see the truth, not just put all the blame on him has freed me from self pity and the victim role that I played like an expert. The story is never one sided, its never all the alcoholics fault, we have to weed out from within us what keeps us blaming them, what are we not facing? what are we gaining from blaming them? This is where Alanon comes in, it helps us face it all, little by little and gives us the tools to continue to weed out from within our own shortcomings. Life is so much better living in reality.x
Dear LC I agree completely !!!This is a disease that has affected everyone that it touches. That is exactly why the symptoms are so very similar in all of us and that is why AlAnon works.
I agree. It is not all As fault that things got so nasty. I fed his disease by playing the same game he did. I reinforced his behavior not that I blame myself. I am not saying he drank because of me. Rather I enabled it by playing the same game. Therefore I need to get better or I will hurt others.
-- Edited by sunshine23 on Sunday 25th of May 2014 09:31:40 AM
This is the more advanced Alanon stuff that goes on more frequently in face to face meetings. So many don't progress to seeing or even trying to see their own part. Thank you for this elcee...it shows you have come quite a ways in the program. I understand that this board is often a segway to f2f Alanon, and for that reason I know why most of the posts are complaining and focused on qualifiers.
-- Edited by pinkchip on Sunday 25th of May 2014 01:12:58 PM
Thanks, I do feel different, I am no longer angry with my ex or even angry at myself. It does come back but only fleetingly. I kind of just see things as just plain facts of the matter now. The behaviours that people describe are typical, there is nothing surprising for me anymore.
I am much more interested in hearing about recovery these days. I like to hear what people are doing for themselves, what tools they are using, how they are getting to know themselves, how they are getting on in the program. Its pretty rare on this forum to be honest.
Part of the program is the giving away what you've got. I am trying to give it away but many people don't want it, that's the hard part. People can get defensive when you tell them that they have a part to play, they think you are criticising or attacking them. Some people are not ready yet and so just want to vent, which is good if its a release, but at some point it becomes clear that that is as far as they want to go.
Im at the stage where I have accepted so much of the disease and its symptoms now Ive got to accept recovery for what it is and what its not. I can see that I have expected people to listen to the ESH here and for them to commit to recovery but it rarely happens. Some people come here like they would any agony aunt type page. That is something else to accept, its hard because Alanon has given me so much and I thought people would accept it if I gave it away but they usually dont, its like your talking a different language which it is I suppose. It puts you off though, its like what are the chances that anything I say is going to be believed or listened to? Pretty slim really. I love seeing the success stories though, I love it but there are so many non success stories where they go back to the crappy life and dismiss it all.
Could not agree with you more El-cee. What a beautiful share. I still see the chaos that has been created and so desperately want to move on. I do have to share that Pink your statement triggered me. Gives me something to work on today.
I think I need to check for understanding? I see why that triggered me because what some view as complaining I see people processing information, learning and healing.
I know...it sounded not compassionate. I am compassionate though. Sometimes to the point where hearing how awful people's qualifiers act and treat them makes me want to throttle the qualifiers....But...behind every qualifier is a person that put up with it, enabled it, or learned dysfunctional beliefs from being affected by the disease (this includes me also) and that is more of the task in Alanon to uncover than to get support or people to agree with what a horrible person your qualifier is. If that was all Alanon was, it would only be a support group and not a 12 step program.
And truth..it is that in the start. Most people come into Alanon angry at qualifiers for good reason...If you stay stuck there for years though...that's not growth. It is processing, learning, and healing to discuss qualifiers at first...for a while.
I agree Pinkchip, if someone is comitted and growing their posts are less about the A and much more useful in terms of sharing their esh, their experience of what life was like before Alanon, the strength they have gained through Alanon and the hope they now have in their lives through the program. That is much more useful to all of us.
Thanks Truth, i love to see the growth in others and there is always something to learn in posts that share growth. I will admit to being discouraged at the moment. Its seems like the same old same old, over and over again. It can actually have a negative impact on your own serenity at times if I let it that is!!
-- Edited by el-cee on Sunday 25th of May 2014 01:52:00 PM
(((el cee))) I have those "in between" times, too. I scheduled a foot massage for myself after recognizing what was going on in my mind and in my feelings. I couldn't get in the day I wanted to do it and I have the appointment to look forward now that wasn't there when I was experiencing same ole-sale ole. Just anticipating the appointment has been enough to lift me out of that mental process that keeps me down. For me, that was taking myself out of the same old-same old and doing something simple and special for me. I also saw a church that I didn't know existed yesterday and decided to check it out today. Pastor is a recovering A whose name is well known in our recovery circles and in the spiritual growth circles I am aware of in our community. I have never met him - just heard about him - until today. Tomorrow evening, I will be attending something at that church that might introduce me to something new, too. New steps in reaching out for me today have already changed the same ole-same ole for me. I'd heard something discouraging and alarming from my son and decided I needed to do what is suggested in Al-Anon - take care of myself. That helped me stay out of the emotional hamster wheel stimulated by my mental preoccupation triggered by the thoughts I had about my son's disappointing text to me. When it comes to posters, I do the same. I offer my e/s/h and the rest is up to them. If things get too frustrating or discouraging to me, I go do something else for me. There have been times I've experienced feeling like I'm helping to push a playground merry-go-round with someone and when I feel it, I know that I have choices and can let go of sharing and of expectations.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Sunday 25th of May 2014 02:07:55 PM
-- Edited by grateful2be on Sunday 25th of May 2014 02:10:48 PM
-- Edited by grateful2be on Monday 26th of May 2014 01:04:05 PM
thanks elcee your share is well said. when i first got into the program i would just cry and vent about how awful his behavior was. slowly the slogans are sinking in and i'm starting to ask, what is my part in this? I've been practicing steps 1-3 every day, over and over. too scared to go on to step 4 and 5. what is the behavior that I'm doing? my coping, my response, the things i've done and said, all the times i've run away? i've finally come to understand, i can only change myself. i am only responsible for the circle around my feet. so how am i acting in a responsible way? lying, hiding, and pretending are old habits i learned in order to survive. i hope program can bring me to the next level in my recovery... moving beyond the old family dynamics and old survival coping skills.
Thanks, I do feel different, I am no longer angry with my ex or even angry at myself. It does come back but only fleetingly. I kind of just see things as just plain facts of the matter now. The behaviours that people describe are typical, there is nothing surprising for me anymore.
I am much more interested in hearing about recovery these days. I like to hear what people are doing for themselves, what tools they are using, how they are getting to know themselves, how they are getting on in the program. Its pretty rare on this forum to be honest.
Part of the program is the giving away what you've got. I am trying to give it away but many people don't want it, that's the hard part. People can get defensive when you tell them that they have a part to play, they think you are criticising or attacking them. Some people are not ready yet and so just want to vent, which is good if its a release, but at some point it becomes clear that that is as far as they want to go.
Im at the stage where I have accepted so much of the disease and its symptoms now Ive got to accept recovery for what it is and what its not. I can see that I have expected people to listen to the ESH here and for them to commit to recovery but it rarely happens. Some people come here like they would any agony aunt type page. That is something else to accept, its hard because Alanon has given me so much and I thought people would accept it if I gave it away but they usually dont, its like your talking a different language which it is I suppose. It puts you off though, its like what are the chances that anything I say is going to be believed or listened to? Pretty slim really. I love seeing the success stories though, I love it but there are so many non success stories where they go back to the crappy life and dismiss it all.
elcee i understand what you are saying. Al anon gives support to families living with an alcoholic or not. Some al anon members are living in a lot of fear, anxiety and pain due to another's alcoholism. Yes, a lot of us come here and whine and complain about the pain we have gone through because of another person's drinking. Some of us are still very new in the program. I just got my one year medallion at a meeting yesterday. If it wasn't for al anon, my sponsor and God, I would not be where I am today. It helps some members to share their pain here because we know people here have the same experiences. We are all on a different journey and we all deserve comfort and helpful advice if people are willing. It is really hard to only focus on ourselves all the time. I know venting here keeps me from exploding at my AH sometimes, so I think I am working my program by sharing my pain. after I read responses from people here, I usually calm down And feel better. Please be patient and understanding. thank you
Im starting again, NLG, I will admit your reply got me raging for a while there. Ive calmed down and now I will attempt to address your reply appropriately.lol. Its all progress, not perfection.
Firstly. Im only in Alanon a year longer than you. Two years this Easter time. I came to this forum after about 8 months. Im no expert but I am discouraged, thats my truth.
It seems you have taken it personally but I am not talking about people like yourself at all. You have shown commitment, you are here often, yes, complaining most of the time.lol but overall, you are trying to learn and are in the process. Not that I feel the need to judge people on their commitment but it kind of stands out for me at the moment. I am far enough along to know that my feelings and my thoughts at the moment are all about me.
My expectations of others, that is my problem right now. Ive been sharing my experience of alanon for a while now and mostly people disappear and you never hear from them again, so it feels like you give and give with no return. Now before you get your knickers in a twist, I realise that is on me.
I love Alanon so much, Im really passionate about it and I want to give it to people. It has completely changed my life, my motives come from a place of gratitude, but lots of people who come here are not ready, they just cant hear you. Thats sad to me, sad because I lived the crap they are continuing to live and sad because I love it when I get something back, I do learn from newcomers, they remind me of what it was like and if they stick around then ESH is shared and we all learn. I try to share with the whole ESH thing in mind, because then I know Im giving something. Not everyone does, some are stuck in the same dark tunnel, posting the same problem in different ways over and over. Its sad and I can feel frustrated with these types of posts, Im sure Im not the only one. My goal though is to not feel frustrated, Im learning. Im a work in progress, just like you, my truth is just my honest truth, not saying my truth is completely healthy, now that would be a lie, but its just my truth.x
-- Edited by el-cee on Monday 26th of May 2014 02:11:01 AM
-- Edited by el-cee on Monday 26th of May 2014 02:21:48 AM
-- Edited by el-cee on Monday 26th of May 2014 02:39:22 AM
-- Edited by el-cee on Monday 26th of May 2014 03:03:56 AM
-- Edited by el-cee on Monday 26th of May 2014 03:06:48 AM
Al-anon gives us the gift of learning to live with the A. It teaches us our part and gives us the ability to change our ways. It helps up to live a more normal life in the mist of madness.
But for me I will never be able to stop the hurt completely because my qualifier is my son. I can and WILL lose him and nothing in this world I do for myself will change that. All I can do is keep practicing my program so I can live a more peaceful life with love and kindness to my son and others in my life.
It doesn't matter how long you have been in Al-anon there is going to come that day that something will destroy all that you have learned....it just comes down to how you want to handle it. Also if you can't tell people about it...yeah maybe complain or hurt out loud what good will that do for you. When you hurt you hurt.
__________________
Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
el-cee, you know, it is so striking to me to see someone else say "I needed someone who wouldn't leave me". You said that once before and it was the VERY first time I ever understood, finally, why. Why this guy. I never got it before.
Also, I understand the frustration you are expressing but, you know often seeds lie dormant for a long time before they sprout. I mean there are a lot of things that people said to me here almost a year ago that I couldn't listen to, because it triggered too much fear and shame but now, those things are still in my mind and I can remember and consider them, understand them and use them. The person who said it might not get the benefit of knowing it; but the seeds were sown, nonetheless...
On a lighter note and please don't be offended but I smile every time my eyes pass this post because I have this ridiculous image in my mind of "The Predictable Alcoholic" being a clothing store for A's.
Sorry lol :-/
__________________
If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
Cathy, I understand that hurt, when its our children its different and no we cant analyse it like we might a marriage, its different. For me though the obsession was the same, Alanon has freed me from that, there are tools that help us Mothers, having a higher power helps us live our lives. I lost my son a long time ago in many ways. The hopes I had for him are gone but I have other hopes now, more realistic ones. There are days when it feels like we have lost our program and there will be in the future but its never gone for long. If you do the work then the learning is there for you.
Your right Mel, there are always things that come back and you go ah, now I see what you mean. That probably never stops, that learning. I love the thought of planting a seed, really nice way of thinking about it. PS, The Predictable Alcoholic tailor, clothes fit for an A. Love that, so glad we can laugh about it, very important.x
-- Edited by el-cee on Monday 26th of May 2014 03:09:50 PM
I really want to learn how to see the truth, not just put all the blame on him so that I can be free of the self pity and the victim role. When he drinks all the normalcy of our lives goes out the window. Everything becomes a monumental problem for which I am always to blame. Today we had to come to the realization that there is a carpentry ant problem in our home. We tried for three days to spray with store bought insecticides. I had to call an exterminator, but because he secretly was drinking this morning, the problem escalated into me being blamed for the ants, the fact that we are in this house, the expenses, always having to have my own way, the kind of person I am, etc. It just sometimes is so very hard, on a day to day basis, to say to myself it is the disease, not me, it's not his fault or mine, it is the disease's fault.
__________________
"Forgiveness doesn't excuse bad behavior, but it
does prevent bad behavior from destroying your heart". ~ unknown
El-cee I am surprised my post to you caused you to be in a rage. I didn't think I was being hurtful. I hear what you are saying about giving help to newcomers here, and then they disappear. Are you a sponsor? My sponsor has had the patience of a saint with me for almost a year now. New comers to al anon need patience and understanding. We can't shove al anon down someone's throat. They have to learn about it on their own, too. If they leave this forum, we shouldn't take it personally. I have also learned through f2f meetings that people will choose to stay with an alcoholic, so they have to use their al anon program probably twice as hard as us who do not live with the A.
If you are feeling unappreciated, which is a guess on my part, maybe you should really pick and choose who you try to help here and not reply to every single newcomer? I don't know, just trying to offer a suggestion. I know I can't save the world, that's one thing al anon has taught me.
I really want to learn how to see the truth, not just put all the blame on him so that I can be free of the self pity and the victim role. When he drinks all the normalcy of our lives goes out the window. Everything becomes a monumental problem for which I am always to blame. Today we had to come to the realization that there is a carpentry ant problem in our home. We tried for three days to spray with store bought insecticides. I had to call an exterminator, but because he secretly was drinking this morning, the problem escalated into me being blamed for the ants, the fact that we are in this house, the expenses, always having to have my own way, the kind of person I am, etc. It just sometimes is so very hard, on a day to day basis, to say to myself it is the disease, not me, it's not his fault or mine, it is the disease's fault.
Debb I understand your pain. In al anon we have a choice whether or not to live with an alcoholic. It is such a hard choice. Most people find living with an alcoholic is too much.
I never took it that way, to me you were telling me about the pain of alcoholism as if I did not have a clue what you were talking about, as if id somehow missed the pain and fear. Yes. Will admit your post triggered me. were all here to recover from the symptoms. Just sharing some of mine that linger. Honesty can be misinterpreted.
-- Edited by el-cee on Tuesday 27th of May 2014 09:20:33 AM
