The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I was waiting for the wife outside her meeting last night. She came up and introduced me to a couple that were at her meeting the first time. The guy was an A, hadn't been to AA for 30 years, hadn't drank in thAT time, but HAD recently relapsed. his wife went to the meeting because it was open, but my wife recommended to her that she try our Al Anon meeting on Friday night. She was interested. They had been married for less than 30 years, so never had to deal with an AH before.
When I was standing there, I told the other couple that the A can seem not human, very irrational, and one of the benefits of Al Anon is we regain our understanding of them as humans. She said she would come Friday, then we all went about our merry way.
This morning, my wife tells me that she was incredibly hurt by me saying that she wasn't human. She had been thinking about it all night. She couldn't believe I could say something like that. She said she could tell me how she felt about me if I wanted to know. I didn't really want to know, because she pretty much always tells me how she feels about me anyway. The problem has always been that I don't tell her how I feel about her. So now I'm back to just holding in how I feel.
I backed off, figuring she must not be ready to hear all the crap she has caused besides the obvious legal woes. I didn't ask her if she felt it was a human thing to do to put our child in danger by driving him around drunk. I didn't ask her if I thought she thought it was a human thing to do to pass out at 6 PM, wake up at 6 AM in bed all happy and ready to go the next day. I didn't ask her about some much more embarrassing things that have happened that I don't even want to share anonymously.
No, I held my tongue, in fact backpedaled and told her that isn't really how I feel. This is what I am trying not to do anymore, holding my tongue has gotten me in trouble most of our marriage by me not communicating openly with her, not wanting to tell her bad things, only wanting to share good. That was part of my part in it.
So I will just hold on to these things, and review them with her if she is ever ready. She is doing so well otherwise in her recovery in general, I don't feel I have to shove bad things in her face when she isn't ready for them. And meanwhile come to you guys and my home group to vent.
Or, now that I think about it a little, I will probably need to go back to her and tell her how I really feel, without examples and try real hard not to be mean, but yes, it felt like she wasn't human sometimes. I was so angry at her and her irrational behavior and lying and blackouts and forgetfulness and medical bills, she wasn't acting like herself at all. Therefore not human. I guess there isn't much she could call me that is worse than she ever has. I was just hoping for a smoother ride for a while
Ohhhhh, Kenny. I want to be honest with you. I think what you said was a low blow to both your wife and to the man who is at his first meeting. It's one thing to talk over your experience of yourself in relationship to your wife with a person new to Al-anon. It's quite another to say something about the person not seeming human. The disease isn't human and it does affect us all in some pretty ugly ways. Yet, the person with the disease - theirs and ours - are doing the best they can with what they have to work with at the time. That doesn't mean we haven't been through some pretty awful things - we have. But, if it were me, I don't think I'd want to go that deep that quickly with newcomers to either program and my newly recovery loved one there, too. Sometimes, how we think and how we feel are better said to our sponsor or some of us in the fellowship. I'm not suggesting you should deny how you are thinking and feeling or not express it with some safe people, but I do think what you said was a bit on the mean side, brother. And to add a little softness to what I've said, I believe you are doing the best you can, too. I kept a lot of what I was thinking and feeling to myself when it came to my x. Yet, when my son was lying in a coma, with his father chomping at the bit on what kind of insurance money my son might get (meaning him), I did say to him "You know what? I think you are a snake in the grass and I will fight you every inch of the way in trying to bring him back home with me." It backfired on me because my x knew that my son idolized him and believed whatever he told him - lie or not. In the end, my son felt the need to stay loyal to his Dad although his Dad was able to steal from him. I'm not responsible for what my x did or didn't do. But, if I had that time to live over again, I would have said what I thought and felt to somebody other than the x. You're not alone, Kenny. It is hard to sort out what to say and what not to say sometimes.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 20th of May 2014 10:08:11 AM
Ahhhh, her pride got her. I remember those early days when my A began his recovery, he elevated himself to the model addict in recovery. We laugh about it now. It is important, I believe, to be open about how her recent behavior affected you (the stewing and twisting of your conversations) and your feelings about it. Past behaviors may be too shame filled for her to address, yet. You say she is doing well and that is awesome. She is lucky to have such a compassionate partner.
Maybe there was to much focus on the A part of things and not enough on how you felt coming more from "I" statements .. I get in to trouble with generalizations. What is said and what is heard are two different things as well. I will come here and say things I wouldn't or couldn't say to my qualifier. Then there are times I say things to my qualifier I probably could be said in a different way. Progress not perfection and hindsight is always 20/20. I know with my qualifier .. the idea that he has done anything wrong really after all his drinking only hurts him no one else he can't get outside of himself in the least.
Alanon helped me gain my sense of what is and isn't my stuff while allowing me to view my qualifier and myself as a child of God.
I think what you said is very true .. however .. in one breath you are walking on eggshells and another one stomping on them at the same time. I don't know if that makes sense or not I see great wisdom in both what Grateful and PP have offered.
Hugs S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Kenny You were honest and as supportive as you knew how to be. You are doing fine I have found that with my continued working of this program , the steps and slogans I have been able to rephrase my thoughts into a kinder, gentler tone without changing the meaning I guess HP has given me the wisdom to speak my truth with words filled with empathy, compassion and understanding. Knowing when to share and how to say it is a true gift of this program.
Be gentle with yourself and your partner. Suggest to her that this was how you felt as you watched from the outside looking in and how program has given you a different view.
Thanks everyone for the ESH, I really appreciate it. I have realized lately that I have posted over 500 times on here, but very, very few of them are about me and what is going on. I am not opening up enough to let folks help me through some things, and I need to change that.
Catherine, thanks for telling me like you think it is. it's good to hear what you think. I realized when I was saying it that it wasn't what I really meant to say, and backed off a bit, but the words were out there and I can't take them back.
Paula, yes, it feels like she isn't accepting. Accepting is the key for them in AA I know. But it's none of my business where she is and how mature she is in her recovery. The only thing I am pretty sure of is that she is further along than I am at this point, therefore I take all her words seriously. A profound change from a year ago.
Serenity, what you said makes perfect sense to me. That's why I joined Al Anon, to be able to vent to others instead of her about things she couldn't have done anything about anyway.
Betty, I will be gentle. I feel better after having read all these responses and feel I can go back to her and talk about it without being mean. And hopefully the other couple will show up Friday night and she can get to know how Al Anon works and move on.
Some posts I go back and read again because I learn from others responses. I appreciate what Grateful, Serenity and Betty said...they each offered great perspectives and some I had not considered; one of the many gifts the forum provides. I get the sense that your next conversation with your wife could be an honest, loving one that may promote some nice connection between the two of you. Be kind to you, this has been heck (I have to be careful of my enjoyment of 4 letter words sometimes)
You can apologize and try to communicate more clearly. I think your.point was valid and it was only the wording that made it controversial. You were trying to make the point that it was hard to not see her as having a disease versus being morally deficient. Hopefully, you and your wife can have a discussion about how you don't always say things perfectly, but you don't mean to hurt her. Part of you guys healing from this will be learning to have disagreements and resolve them maturely. Talk it out. Don't just assume she was totally oversensitive. You both have roles in your disagreements. Saying "Fine then I won't tell you how I feel at all!" is childish but commonly what men do rather than be humble and talk out problems.
Well pinkchip, fine, I won't ask you about this anymore lol!
Absolutely agree with you. The part about me not saying things perfectly is for sure anyway, that's why I'm more comfortable in a written forum than in an impromptu verbal one.
Thank you all so much for contributing to my and our recovery
I got into that habit too of sheltering the truth from the my ex a. Always sugar coating it for him, due to fear mainly, fear he would drink again. I kind of felt like a hostage, he had the power and I was still tip toeing around. Even now if I meet him I can act this way, minimising hard facts. To me, this is whe im not true to myself, he is the important one and I must hide or sacrifice what I feel or think, just in case it triggers bad beahviour, drinking etc. Kenny, if you feel a certain way and express it then it means your ready to say it, that to me is important, how she takes it is not really your business and if you hide it then it might be worthwhile exploring your motives. Do you think you have the power to make her drink? Worrying about her being ready to face things or hear things is a bit controlling, have you truly accepted your powerlessness? Or explored your fears. Alanon is much more about you, what you feel, think, behave, taking our eyes off the a, drinking or not.x
Thanks for your thoughts too, El-cee. I don't fear she will drink again. At least not at this point. In fact, her recovery is so important to her that she is ridding herself of all triggers. And one of them is me, when I become shutdown and passive/agressive, like I tend to do. So keeping communications open is of utmost importance to both of us.
So I bought flowers on the way home- Kroger Managers Special, which she loves because she loves flowers, but hates for me to spend a bunch of money on them. I said I was sorry, didn't speak well, and she said she was sorry and shouldn't have taken it the way she did. It was all over in 15-20 seconds, and now we have moved on.
I told her specifically about how Catherine said she thought I blew it. We got a good laugh.
My AW is100x better in recovery than she was even before she became an A. After all we've been through, I have gotten a much more accepting spouse, it's making my journey into recovery so much easier.
Thanks everyone for the kind words of encouragement and the open honesty. I didn't have that growing up. No As in the family, just plain old dysfunctionality.
Well, now, I'm ticked and I'm never going to talk to you again, Kenny! I gave you some of my finest feedback and you and your wife laughed at it. Well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just, welllllllllllll!!!! And more of it, too. Well, well, well, well and so there.
All kidding aside, I am so happy to hear that you found some good flowers at Kroger's on their Manager's Special. Wow! You must have gotten double kissed for that! Loving and cost-conscious, too! I'm also so glad to hear that both of you were able to communicate and connect again.
I do find your honesty and your humility to be sooooo touching.
Thanks for letting us know that you were both able to work this through! That makes me happy for you. Very happy.
I like your program work and this post a lot. I hear recovery and great ESH, your awareness is spot on. Keep it up! Sending you love and support on your recovery journey!
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Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree
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" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."
"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."
Wooooooppppps! Forgot. (((K))) (((K'sW)))