The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I know this is controversial but i worry that the getting them sober book is recommended to new comers at the expense of the full benefits of the alanon program. I read one volume and it is a good book with limited value, it is short and has very small bite size pieces of information and it can be empowering to see alcoholism written about in this way for the first time. However, it is not alanon literature and it does not offer the tools that have made a difference to my life and thousands of others. I wonder if newcomers who are encouraged to read this book think that is it, that is all they need and im not sure it has that kind of power or is even intended for a complete change in thinking that is often needed. This book could be stunting the recovery of a confused new comer, keeping them from alanon meetings and cal literature whilst they buy the complete set of these books and spend time thinking it is these books that will make the difference. I mean there are many newcomers who come here once and dont come back, is this book what they are looking for or is it alanon? They are not the same thing.
In meetings we dont use any other books or literature and I think that is due to the fact that it could confuse the newcomer or take them in another direction. The alanon program can take time to seep in, its a gradual, gentle process. There are lots to learn and its a program for life. Alanon offers a structured program that when used daily change and challenge our old way of thinking that has so long kept us trapped, it takes time and I think it kind of seeps in slowly and helps us form new healthy habits. I have heard old timers talk about slipping if they dont work it so its not easy even after years and it is easily lost. So I wonder about the benefits of these books in the long term if newcomers are using these thinking they are alanon.
This has been on my mind for a while now and I thought its about time I let it go. What do you think?
-- Edited by el-cee on Monday 5th of May 2014 05:24:52 AM
-- Edited by el-cee on Monday 5th of May 2014 06:05:17 AM
I learnt about Getting Them Sober through Alanon, so for me Alanon was my 'first base' so to speak. Alanon showed me that there were others in my situation who were making the best of their lives and that intrigued me. It also showed me that there were others in my situation who were just as worn out and exhausted as I was, and I didn't want to be like that. It has been a kick start for a growing 'life' experience.
Getting Them Sober helped me to cut through my denial and to read someone else describing my situation was helpful. It also helps me to take a step back when I read someone else talking about situations that I would not want to tolerate. That helps me to focus on what I would like/need to change.
Good morning milkwood, I was already in alanon too and it did not hinder me either, ive read lots of books recommended here and ive really enjoyed some of them. Its the newcomer that concerns me. I think it would be better to recommend alanon first. I could be wrong and im okay with that, my mind is open.x
This is why I'm so careful of any literature or "self-help" books that aren't 12-step literature.
And BTW, alcoholism was first written about in masterly detail in 1939 in AAs Big Book
In a situation where someone is already overwhelmed to me getting them sober is an easy read. Even though it's not CAL It does stick to program talk. I couldn't get through some of the alanon books I have and didn't without book study meetings. I was to overwhelmed .. my brain couldn't take more complex input. It didn't make sense to me. Getting them sober helped me understand in short terms I had power over me and choices. Hugs
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
AA's big book is not alanon conference approved literature either. Ive read the big book and aa,s twelve by twelve and I got a lot from them. As a newcomer deep in denial, alanons welcome pack was my lifeline for quite a while, then the readers and then the steps. I know everyone is different and will work the program their own way I just wonder about the value of these books to people with no alanon experience.
Thanks serenity, I have a really good meeting and I was not encouraged to buy the books for a little while, just for that reason really. I was given a welcome pack that had leaflets that were simple to understand, reading about detachment for the first time was amazing to me. My pack had the little card , just for today, another little, easy to use tool. The biggest impact for me was the presence of the other members, the welcome, the hugs, the understanding. To me, much more valuable.x
I love the book "Getting Them Sober" as I do my 3 daily CAL approved daily readers and many other CAL books. My recovery was greatly enhanced by that book in particular, thus I keep recommending it. Toby Rice Drews and Melody Beattie both have written out for me how to use tools I was lacking and although they are not CAL approved have greatly shaped my walk in al-anon to be healthier and stronger. This is just my experience and I wouldn't change my recovery journey for anything. Take what you like and leave the rest. Sending you love and support on your journey!
__________________
Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."
"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."
I think The book is just one of many tools that can be used no matter if it's Al-anon or not. It's comes down to what works for you. Let's take AA for example. It's works for some but others use programs like Sober Recovery and that works for them so to limit your knowledge to one way and one way only isn't good in my book.
Getting them Sober was a very good book but " Setting Boundaries with Your Adult Children " was better for me because my qualifier was my son and one of my biggest problems I had to overcome..... Enabling!
Al-anon is deep and sometimes people resist it until they read something easy to read and understand....it's like a stepping stone as the fellowship keeps encouraging Al-anon.
As they say you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink so lets break out all tools we have to help them understand.
(( hugs ))
__________________
Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
Enhancement is a good word for me, these books can enhance our recovery. I totally agree with that. Are they a good beginning though? Thanks for your input.x
Cathy, I related to the book, dont let your kids kill you, a great one for me but nothing has given me what alanon has. A way to live with everything that alcoholism has brought me and beyond that really.x
The meetings here aren't like that .. I was grateful when a male newcomer shared how out of place he felt. Small town .. small town mentality .. we had a good discussion about the whole issue of try 6 meetings. It took me longer even now I struggle .. my sponsor is also a transplant. She is the meeting hugger .. lol. Especially in the beginning I didn't know how to talk to my stbax .. AA gave me a voice and getting them sober gave me the words. My Alanon group didn't play a part in that .. I wish I could verbalize it better. Most of the people in my group are still with their Sig others. I was the odd man out in that regard .. for a while until I branched out. We have 5 meetings in the area weekly. I'm able to attend 2 on a good week. AA has filled in the blanks. Not every alanon meeting is healthy is my point. I love the meeting my sponsor started and ironically none of the other long time alanon people attend that meeting. So there is a divide. I had getting them sober to fall back on and I'm grateful for that big time. As well as open AA meetings. Hugs
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Im from a small town too but I think ive been very lucky. I do remember feeling out of place, in some ways that is inevitable until you learn to think differently. I do think aa meetings are valuable for us, maybe not at the beginning though. I remember you talking about your compassion meter getting filled up from aa meetings and I didnt get what you meant until I attended an aa open meeting. There arent many that I am aware of here . Ive only been to them at conferences. Its important to find a group that sticks to the principles and traditions. I understand that recovery is a journey that is filled with lots of experiences and tools. For me, the only ones that have truly worked, day to day are alanon ones.x
-- Edited by el-cee on Monday 5th of May 2014 07:00:21 AM
-- Edited by el-cee on Monday 5th of May 2014 07:07:55 AM
I would like to think that your experience is the exception and that most meetings are like my home group. The steps, traditions and principles are there to keep groups healthy. If its not healthy then its not following the clear guidelines. Im sorry that alanon never impacted on your recovery the way it should have.x
Dear LC, I agree that offering new comers "conference approved" literature is the wisest and most helpful action we can take. I love the newcomer pack and the small bookmark" Just forToday". Each small piece of literature is designed to help the newcomer in a very special way. Most importantly I believe that giving someone a book or series of books to read enables them to continue to isolate and think they can find the answers alone. Breaking the isolation caused by this disease and connecting with others who understand is a powerful recovery tool that should be suggested.
Recovery is a WE effort and this should not be discounted.I live in a large city and we have over 20 meetings each day so that finding a suitable meeting is really easy. I am glad that I found this program and followed the suggestions.
Thanks for your reply hotrod, you just put my thoughts down so clearly in your reply. I too, think buying a whole batch of books, that cost a fortune helps the isolation and uses valuable time that could be spent in meetings getting familiar with the philosophy and reaching out to others. I think we should trust the program as it provides everything needed for the newcomer, all of us really. Nothing else is really needed.x
Lol, I just think of the founders of alanon all those years ago, the thought, time, care gone into this program and the motives behind it. How can we not trust it? A book written by one person, one mind, one opinion and I assume motivated by money to some degree cant compete. Thank you for your thoughts on this everyone.x
Hi, el cee: I am not comfortable recommending books that aren't CAL on this board for people who are the friends and family members of people with this disease to include AA's Big Book, so I don't do it. On the other hand, I have used the Big Book for personal resource material and also purchased the Getting Them Sober series that I wouldn't have if I hadn't seen it on the board suggested so many times. I'd have to say that the most helpful literature for me truly has been the Al-Anon readers and they are my "go to books," and yet I wouldn't have known that if I hadn't looked at the Big Book or the series. I guess for me I'm okay with others suggesting a book that was helpful for them but need to apply "When in doubt, don't" to myself when thinking of resources that might be helpful to newcomers and others.
Keeping it simple comes to my mind as I read through the thread. And it seems to work when I am in the beginning of any new experience. In regards to addictions, since there are so many layers, I believe it best, in the beginning, to stick with what has worked for many years, so one can get a grounding, a foundation. From that place and when one is ready, exploration of other resources is golden. Yet, each of one of us is unique and will get what we need if we keep reaching, asking and listening.
Thank you Grateful, I also dip into the Big Book but not often and I purchased one 'Getting them Sober' book. I also bought another couple of books that were not CAL and they have been interesting but it took me a long time to venture out. Something instinctively told me to follow the suggestions and trust the process. I knew there was no quick fix, this takes time and I had surrendered myself to Alanon.
I love that philosophy PP, and I believe that too, we get what we need eventually, every one of us. The reading in the ODAT is relevant to this I think, its about the slogans and how they are all you need in a crisis. Thanks.x
(((el cee))) I do understand what concerns you - and although some of what is suggested isn't CAL - neither is MIP. My view in meetings would be different than on this board because "Only Al-Anon spoken here" is our rule of thumb guide at meetings but not on MIP where we share information, etc according to the board's introduction to readers? Even with that fact in mind, I still don't recommend things outside CAL. Like you, Betty and others, I think it can confuse and isolate, yet I don't want to be "strictly Al-Anon" on the board since the board seems to be a supplement to the actual Al-Anon program. Both have their place in my life and I'm grateful for both. I am also grateful for all those who respond honestly and openly to the topic that was presented. I like the fact that you introduce topics for us to ponder. Keeps me awake and open to seeing something I might not have considered or thought about in the context of Al-Anon and/or MIP.
And - every time I look at those daffodils, I smile. It is a gloomy day here and those brave flowers remind me to be cheerful no matter what the day's lessons. Thank you.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Monday 5th of May 2014 06:50:06 PM
Thank you Grateful, I see what your saying, its not about stifling people and their responses, there is huge value in all of it, CAL or not. I totally agree. I do think we have to be careful where newcomers are concerned, the rest of us are a bit different we know Al anon and therefore its safe to venture out in many ways and like you said when we venture out we can appreciate what we have got.x
I know that I read a lot of different stuff when I first started thinking that "something wasn't right". I suppose that it isn't helpful to mention the titles but it was progressive; I would read something, find that I identified with it, and then go searching for "something harder" a week later. I ended up here, and then "getting them sober" was the first book I read after joining MIP. It didn't "give me the answers" and I don't think it hindered me in any way; it just gave me a tremendous sense of relief because it described some things that I really thought were my own private, shameful secrets and it actually made me feel a lot braver about sharing and involving myself in al-anon without thinking that I had to keep covering up 'the worst bits" as I realised, hey other people have probably experienced those feelings as well!. I think it was really constructive and I have since started reading the CAL.
It's an interesting topic and quite a lively discussion. I'm not familiar with that book. It sounds good from what everyone says. I'll probably read it because I think you ladies usually know what you're talking about. As most of you know, I'm in both the AA and the Alanon programs and fellowships and we both have suggestions for conference approved literature. I know more about what AA suggests so if I err in what I say, I apologize. I think one of the important things I heard along my journey is that there is no such thing as conference-nonapproved-literature. I try not recommend in meetings that anyone read or not read a piece of literature that is not conference-approved but only because it has been suggested by the members who have gone before me that we not do that. These programs have been here a long time, longer than I have been alive and they learned what to do and what not to do by experiencing it and they are passing that on to me. Having said that, I do not always follow directions easily. I recommend to the men I sponsor in AA that they read Alanon literature but I make sure they know that AA is not recommending that they do it. I sometimes recommend literature to men I sponsor in Alanon because I may feel that it will be helpful to them on some personal level, but again I make sure they know that Alanon does not suggest they read that. There are lots of good and helpful books out there. I've read most of them. Heck, I've even written a few but that's neither here nor there.
I like the comment made here that MIP is not CAL. Sometimes I forget that. Well thanks for bringing that up. It made me think. Have a great day.
__________________
Not all my days are priceless, but none of them are worthless, anymore.
I'm with Melly here. One thing that newcomers DON'T have is trust. We are already totally isolated and ANY book gets us feeling less alone and willing to look up the next little glimmer of hope in the next book. I'm glad that the Getting Them Sober books are good AlAnon even if they are not conference approved... just like the Melody Beatty books.
It takes what it takes to get to AlAnon. I was already a year into AlAnon (but totally not understanding why I was there and what I was supposed to do because I thought I already was a good person) and then I read some other books and it became more real to me.
I am more concerned when people recommend anything involving AA. I think it can trigger post traumatic stress sometimes to hear what they talk about. I just get angry!- that's my PTS.
I can understand that feeling of shame. I had read self help books way before alanon and for the short term they did help but eventually things were just as bad, I couldnt hold onto any of the suggestions for long. These added to my feelings of failure and I was left feeling helpless. Its only been the alanon program that has provided me with a solid day to day plan. If these books have worked in reverse order for some people then I think that is really good for them. Mip is not cal but it does say alanon family group which does suggest we are alanon. The steps, principles and traditions are great guidlines for meetings but they wont steer us wrong here either. I think the aa literature can be a bit much for some people and I suppose thats the reason we dont use it, although I have used the twelve steps and traditions book recently to help with my step 5 and it helped.
I think its perhaps too much to expect everyone to want the same things on a big open forum like this. Some people do talk alanon in their posts and some dont which in a way represents meetings too. I have just gotten so much out of alanon and I want others to have what ive got and I got it from committing to it fully, others have got it and have ventured out and I suppose thats okay as long as they got it. Ive learned a lot from this, thanks.x
Hi everyone. Thanks for this topic. It is something I've thought about many times. I can only speak for me and share my experience. It took me over a year to get myself to an Alanon meeting, but I did go finally and found it helpful and welcoming, but also overwhelming and at times intimidating. I had a difficult time understanding what was being shared. Like do many others, I wanted answers about how to stop my loved one from drinking. I was new and didn't fully understand the program. So I started going to a second F2f meeting. At about the same time I was trying to learn axuch as possible about the disease, searching online, and I came upon this group. As you know, this board is not conference approved, at least it wasn't When I came here about 18 months ago. That turned me off a little, being a good adult child, I didn't want to break any rules. :)
I spent a lot of time on MIP, using yhe search feature to read new and old posts that seemed to mirror my situation. It was so very helpful. I started to really "get" the program at that point. Someone on the board mentioned the "getting the sober" books. Again, I was fearful about going outside the program, but I read all 4 volumes, and like others, found a reassuring and safe guide. The whole time I was still going to meetings 2 x per week. But I can honestly say the things that helped me most as a newcomer were this board and the Toby rice drew books. They were like good friends with relevant advice and guidance that I so desperately needed.
Thanks
I honestly think I need all the literature I can get my hands on that explain alcoholism. I bought 4 volumes...I think.. Of Getting them Sober on my Nook and I think my total was around $30? Not bad at all. They are short books that explain ways to handle the A that I found very valuable. I also have at least 10 CAL books that I refer to a lot. I think it's ok to mention these books. It's not like we are saying "forget al anon books...read this one instead". I personally feel it is a good idea to get all the help I can get with good books!
Thanks for your views and im glad you 'Got it' regardless of how. The good thing for me is I can say, thanks to alanon, you may be right, im okay with being wrong.x
I agree, what is right for one, may be wrong for another, we each get to do what works for us and that is why we work our own programs in al-anon. Love this post and all the feedback.
__________________
Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."
"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."
I was emphasising one of the gifts I got from alanon, a really good gift for me. I can be ok taking risks, getting it wrong or right. The point is im secure enough in my recovery, in myself that its all good even when people disagree with my point of view. Ive enjoyed this discussion very much.x
