Sex/intimacy and the alc marriage - Al-Anon Family Group

Theoceancalls · Senior Member

Sex/intimacy and the alc marriage

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi,

I don't feel qualified to comment on the sex part at all. Me and the AW have our own challenges, and I can only blame her for some of them. We both have our share of work to do on that front.

However, on the topic of you sitting there while he guilts you, remember, you don't have to attend every fight you're invited to. Yes, you are just sitting taking it, but the fight is inside you. I'm just like it, I don't respond to these kinds of things externally, but the fight is inside, and then it takes days for me to get over it because it never gets resolved. When my AW is active, which means she is NOT EVER REALLY sober, even when not drunk, I would just sit there and take it, getting more and more pissed off because I knew it wouldn't do any good to respond. I finally figured out that it's not doing anybody any good, there is no real winner or loser because it would just go round and round and round, and she probably wouldn't even remember it the next day in the state that she was in. So I stopped attending those fights. I stopped voluntarily starting them, and when she issued an invitation, I would walk away. That did a lot of good for my serenity, a lot of good.

Peace
Kenny

-- Edited by KennyFenderjazz on Wednesday 12th of March 2014 10:38:41 PM

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Step

Sex and intimacy in an alcoholic marriage suffer drastically as a result of this dreadful disease. I can sense that you are looking for and owning your part in the dilemma The alanon book "The dilemma of the Alcoholic Marriage attempts to address this painful topic as well.

Your feelings and observations are valid and shutting down and pretending, as you have been doing are destructive tools that we develop to live in and connect with an alcoholic. These tools are very destructive to intimacy and sex.

I do believe sitting and listening to your spouse address this issue can be very painful and validating yourself and your needs as a female partner might help to reaffirm your positive attitudes and attributes without blaming him. Remember you are a beautiful, talented, attractive woman who loves him and needs respect, compassion, empathy, and connection on a daily basis in order to feel intimacy.

Keep sharing this is how we connect and grow .

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Well hon for one, it's your body, you do not have to be with him. NO one wants to be with someone who mentally abuses them.

All he says and does is because he is a very sick person, with a disease that clouds his brain and his heart. In fact active alcoholics do not care about anything but their own drives. A normal man who loves his wife, felt she was not into it, would ask her if he could do anything to make her feel better, ask her if she wanted to talk about it. He would want assurance it was not him.

Menapause, hormones changing, kids, pain whatever can all cause us to not feel in the mood. If a husband is a friend, he puts us first, as we put him.

So he is not going to change. It falls on you, what are you going to do? We learn to live with them detaching, taking care of ourselves by not engaging, we say no, we develope strategies to be away when they are drunk etc. I had my own bedroom with a lock and a door out, bathroom tv and satellite. Would go read.

I would get in my car, and go for a ride, go visit someone, call someone.

Or one can keep it the same and it will get worse, so much worse. Or they choose to leave the marriage. Hate to say marriage as to me it is a gift from HP, and that is not a marriage in my eyes.

You deserve to be loved, cared about, treated with dignity, only told kind things about you. NO ONE has the right to put you down or tell you its your fault, you are bad in bed whatever.

least of all your husband who is suppose to be your best friend.

So al anon helps us to see we are worth loving. We are worth taking care of ourselves.Also children are sponges,no parent in the world would want their kids thinking this behavior is ok. Kids feel everything from the time they are born. they know what is going on, it can destroy them.

I worked with, taught kids for eighteen years,and raised my kids and about all of my sons friends. Believe me they miss NOTHING.

I want to encourage you to LOVE you enough to look at what is going on, pretend your share is from another dear woman, what would you want her to do? We are here to support you, guide you. We already love and care about you too. We have been where you are.

Getting them sober is a great book by toby rice drew volume one.

So dear one, what are you going to do for the beautiful, loving woman you are? hugz!

Newlife girl · ~*Service Worker*~

It is normal to have issues with sex with an alcoholic partner. My issue has been that we would have sex and it would give me the false impression that everything was ok. Then a few times he would drink heavily later that night or the next day. It was like a slap in the face. It hurt me so bad. I give myself to him and he turns around and spits in my face. That's how it feels to me anyway.
This is one of many reasons I finally got off the roller coaster. I moved out last week with my kids. You have a choice of how you want to live your life.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Faking it does not sound good at all, there are a few reasons. Its lying, to him, to your true feelings. I mean, your condoning his drinking, your saying its all okay, your putting him way above yourself. Way before alanon, I refused to have sex when he was drunk because it made me feel like a thing, I couldnt stick the smell of drink and its just an awful experience. Marital duties go out the window with an alcoholic husband. My duty is to be true to myself as much as I can.

Alanon teaches us to put our own needs first, we take care of our mind, body and soul. You have a right to say no to sex and if he starts the crap tell him the truth. You dont have to be mean but the truth is the truth. This program is not about burying your head, faking, pretending its all okay. Its the complete opposite.

Theoceancalls · Senior Member

well i aporeciate all of this feedback yet at the same time i just feel worse. im not honest with myself or anyone for that matter. and yes i guess my pretending is condoning. im making little progress at this pint all i have accomplished is to obssess and try to fix me only to fail. this disease and all of its psycological nonsense is slowly eroding me. i know i have the power to walk out but i stay so i guess im to blame there too. sorry. its been a long two weeks and im simply worn out. i cant fix him or this marriage by myself and im not thinking he is going to do his part. so. . maybe i just need to breathe for a bit.

jillybean1 · Senior Member

Hey Ocean---I could have written your post myself. My AH has even accused me of using him as a way to have kids and now that we are older I don't need his sperm anymore. How is that for logic? I guess it is the same logic as when I heard an alcoholic tell me that if they didn't mean for drunks to drive they wouldn't have put parking lots next to bars and liquor stores. Alcohol and drugs mess with the brain---hence the crazy thinking and total illogical thoughts.

I understand the disease but I still catch myself saying ....."Really.....????!!!"

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm not in your shoes OTC, but from what I've seen over the years on here, we speak our truth in ways that are thoughtful, honest, intelligent, necessary, and kind (THINK is the acronym). This means that in order to stop riding a merry go round, you have to address that you are at least on a merry go round. I know you have probably brought up the issue of drinking in all the sweetest and kindest ways possible and it hasn't worked, but this is your truth and it helps to speak it and then disengage from the stupid tirade that follows. Say your truth and detach. This way you are not holding onto resentments and trying to do an impossible balancing act. If you avoid the truth or withhold it, that's not giving him the consequences of his own actions and it will make you feel crazy holding it in and faking (not just about sex either obviously). I'm not saying that you tell him the sex is gone because he's a drunk and it's respulsive.

More life "Well honey, I know this is a touchy subject and you did hit upon that we should make this work for our daughter. Intimacy is difficult for me because I hold so many resentments about your abandoning me/us to go drink. You know I hate what alcohol is doing to you, so when you are actually drunk, that's literally traumatizing for me, as all our worst fights have come when you were drunk. I love you honey and I want our marriage to work also, but me dodging the truth isn't going to help you or us. You can do what you want with this information. I'm not angry as I say this and I don't want to argue." If the argument starts from there, you pretty much repeat the same thing and hold to your truth because the alcoholic is always going to try to talk you out of your boundaries and beliefs. This is basically the beginnings of creating boundaries for yourself and keeping them.

OTC: I don't anticipate this will change him persay - it will start to change you though from being a pretend actor in his alcoholic game to being you again.

Note: If he explodes, make plans to leave pronto - have a bag ready for daughter and you. Even cursing, calling you foul names, banging on furniture is domestic violence not to be tolerated.

I feel so much for you in this situation OTC. Having observed just a snippet of this suffering on here that has lasted such a long time. You deserve happiness and peace. I also feel like you have separation built up to being a loss or a death of some sorts. It's not. Just like Serenity and Breakingfree's kids and other moms on here, your daughter will be ok with whatever you do. She's actually an expert at dealing with drunk dad whether you want to believe it or not.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

What comes to my mind in addition to all that has been shared with you are these words: "You don't owe him anything." You do owe yourself something and that is a life that is workable. I caught myself the other day mentally telling myself that I was doing something for the sake of one of my children. Truth hit me full in the face. In a subtle way I was blaming my adult child unconsciously for making choices that didn't honor me. I wasn't taking full responsibility for my own choices and my own life. I found myself wondering how often I might have done that in my past. I didn't jump all over myself for it. It was a thought pattern I had not been conscious of at the time. Once I recognized it and really thought about it, I realized that although I did things that I believed to be in the best interest of my children, I did them for me - and not for my kids - in keeping with being true to myself. My children suffered in the marriage and they also suffered following my divorce. Yet, the difference between me in a bad marriage and me in single parent mode was critical. I was dying in the marriage. I began thriving following the divorce. My kids were better off with a Mom on her own than a Mom living with an abusive man who brought alcohol and drugs into her life and into theirs. I'm not saying divorce is the solution for you. I am saying that I see you struggling with some of the same things I did and I want you to know there is life beyond a painful marriage.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 13th of March 2014 10:11:45 AM

Chinook Daddy · Member

Being of the opposite sex and having the same issue but with an addict, I can tell you that it is a lack of understanding on their part and ours. What I failed to recognize was the fact they (my ex and current wife) don't even consdier sex or intimacy in their life due to their fixation on their addiction. Their broken brain doesn't even consider sex and intimacy as a survival trait given by nature, therefore the only thing they ever wanted was their next drink or pill. I kept blaming myself, losing my own libido and then once I had the opportunity to have a physical opportunity, I failed for us both due to the frustration. My first marriage ended very painfully for me, not the addict/alcoholic. My second marriage is on the rocks for the same reasons that you speak and everyone else. Alanon is helping me fix me, which hopefully if my second wife works her program, we may make it. I feel for you cause it seems your other half is not working a program, which means you are the one feeling the consequences. My addict now not practicing, at least has found some sort of rekindling toward me that has been gone for almost 9 years. I am not sure if my mind and body can recover from such ignorance over that span of time. Praying for you and yours.

hopes314 · Senior Member

Ah the duty of the wife. I threw back to my Ah what is the duty of a husband,?
I know after I found out about an affair it killed my love for my Ah. I use to say yes all the time whether I wanted to have sex or not. This seemed very unhealthy to me. I let him manipulate me too long. Then I figure out why was my life so crazy because he is an AH. I found out they have one agenda and the wife is not on it. They will do and say anything to get what they want. They don't have any concerns for feelings. Jut all of a sudden he is so hurt but he doesn't accept the fact he hurts me.
Now I don't have sex with my AH and I really font care if he doesn't like it or not. This is my recovery and I am going to take care of myself.
I told him we can have a marriage
when he is in recovery. Then he tells Me he doesn't have a problem. Here goes the lying.
I don't know how I have manage to survived without alnon.
All I know is I the only person who cares about me in this relationship.
I still can't believe how much they lie.
I remember my AH came home from going to the ER about his blood pressure too high. He said he left me a message. I just said i thought it was another lie . everything he says is a lie.. I said how do I know it is true when he is in recovery.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Sex and Intimacy for me come second to love and respect. If he loved you he would understand your character and how it moves and you would do the same. Intimacy is for me is partnership with complete trust and few boundaries. I don't believe I've ever had either mostly because from the families I come from and my marriages to addicted women and my own untreated addictions before I got into recovery I just didn't understand with partners who just didn't understand. I wished that my alcoholic/addict would and could ask herself "well how would I behave around me for the person I am now"? Sex was good love when there was mutual acceptance and trust and interest other wise it was duty or a co-dependent give her what she wants and lets get thru this. Sex was often a "nerve ending" event...you know when the nerve ending tell me that I'm an okay person. Intimacy isn't even possible when my partner is "self" seeking. Having sex and not even thinking about your partner isn't sex for me its a never ending thing...get the tingle...then the crunch...then leave. Hate that no intimacy. Aroma is also important...if they stink or reek....? well you know what I mean. Good subject all the time. (((((Hugs))))) smile

barbaralewis · Veteran Member

i used to try to find some piece of fabric to grab and pull over my nose without him realizing that was what i was doing. that's awful isn't it? it seems worse seeing it in print.

suofsugar · Newbie

Greetings, I am grateful to 'break' the taboo...my home groups are so mixed that the topic of 'sex with an active alcoholic' is never a topic nor at conventions. I'm also wiped by it.

Truth is for me that I am only now coming to grips with it being okay to both hold lovingness, a type of affection for my active drinker. ALSO, it is as equally okay for me to honor my own needs and feelings. The precarious part is coming to terms with all of this.

As many here, my spouse has the addictive thinking and low sense of self and poor disposition and cannot, because the illness does not let him, 'own' his portion of contributing to our dwindling sex life... and I am aware, even saying, 'dwindling sex life' is not correct. It is a dwindling marriage... as most women know, we need 'intimacy'....which is, wholly close familiarity or friendship; closeness. Yes, we see people interchange the words 'sex' with 'intimacy' or the like, but first is the connectedness. And I need to be honest and I have been, but our marriage, the foundation we had, the shared values, the dreams, the plans, the joy has been deteriorated...NOT because he's mean, NOT because he's stupid, NOT because he's not a good man...but because the disease of alcoholism has possessed him...

AND because he does choose to not get help.

Where I am now: I am working anew a 4th Step... I am still in touch with the idea that I have guilt surrounding my boundries, my honoring my needs, particularly when it comes to intimacy. I am a very loving, sensitive woman who NEEDS depth of connection. Gone are my days where I am willing to f*** you for love (AND I gotta admit, that was an addiction to love and NEED I had eons ago...the thought, 'sacrifice myself in anyway' and 'someone will love me'...part of my own sickness for sure). Today I'm not that insecure person. Today I recognize, grateful again to Al-Anon that I am good, decent, kind and my HP values me...and it's okay to not 'sell myself short'. I have to breathe deep when the topic comes up and it does often as often we go for lengths of time without any SEX connection. But, we don't have the intimate connection to build on. I miss him, I have let him know this, but I also, when he is not influenced, AND in line with him having brought up SEX (his words are like this: "We need some us time." And usually said when he is well under a binge. AND at that particular time I have come to have an agreeable spirit, and say something as kindly as I can, "I agree. I miss our closeness.") I make sure that I stay on that course and then know it's time for me to truly find an exit so that the topic is stopped. These are times I am avoiding the deeper conversation. BUT there are times when it's a topic when he's not drunk/hung-over, and I say, "I would enjoy spending time, maybe play cards, take a wlak, but I am unable to be sexual with you today."

Oh, his face. The grimace...and oh how I used to be sunk in guilt. AND YES: How I used to fold...either then or later that day...

Today, I am breathing, praying, and trying to trust my way through this.
I am in touch with a fear that my marriage will disintegrate. It is painful.

My HP is with me.

MY HP will guide, provide, and cares deeply.

I have friends in the program.

I worry too about being self-sufficient... but then I start projecting and I know now, the ONLY thing I must deal with is today, is the needs I have today, is assuring I'm not being retributional, not using sex-as-award (which I've also done), and instead, expressing my needs kindly and truthfully without being dramatic nor nagging.

It AIN'T easy. No. No.

But it's becoming gentler, I am soothed sooner, and again, I am trusting my HP.

I do not know where this will lead. I know I miss him terribly, and truth is, I love him. I wish him wellness and joy and a lighter life. I lament that this beloved cannot choose to take the steps (even in not literally a '12 Step Program' type) to help himself. Though I know, for today, without being a martyr, this is where I am supposed to be. Perhaps these life lessons and following the nudgings of my HP will lead me to a deeper detachment and a more loving acceptance. Perhaps I will be lead to independent life. Perhaps my husband will choose wellness and fight for his own sweet inner self.

I don't know.

I only know that it's okay for what I feel. It's okay as long as I don't play head games, that I don't get mean, that I don't REact, that I don't hold resentment (tough for me)... and it's okay that I don't do any of these things perfectly.

I acknowledge I am progressing. We do this together.

Thanks for letting me share my thoughts on this tough, intricate topic.

Love, Susan

suofsugar · Newbie

Thank you.

Irish7 · Senior Member

There is such good e/s/h here. Ocean, thank you for raising this topic that does not often get discussed in al anon. I don't have much current e/s/h to offer, as my current AH doesn't push for sex when he's drinking. But my first AH was a dry drunk for the last 8 years of our marriage. He never made amends or worked a program, and he said things like "wifely duty." I shut him down in a variety of ways from telling him I had lady problems to changing my work schedule so that I wasn't available when he was off work to feeding him dinners that I knew would make him exhausted. Eventually I grew to loathe him so much ---silently because I never wanted our daughter to see us fight--- that I filed for divorce. My daughter just turned 3 at that time. She is now 10 and one of the most well adjusted kids out there. We actually have a decent co parenting relationship because I was able to put those resentments aside when I was no longer in close proximity to him. I'm sorry you're going through this, I know it sucks. Hugs to you honey.

Skorpi · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you for bringing this up, Ocean. I have been struggling with this issue myself, and reading the shares has helped me feel less alone with it.

I haven't expressly stated before, but my A and I are both women. We have been married for 8 years. We both had relationships with other women before we married.

My wife is very interested in sex all the time. I find that, in my relationship with her, I am not at all interested in sex any more. I have reflected on this for several years now (she often brings the topic up), and I think that my lack of interest in sex is the result of a lack of intimacy and trust in the relationship. I feel alone in the relationship, and I feel as though I do not have a partner in my life, so the sex feels empty and meaningless.

I have shared this with her. She has threatened to have an affair many times, and I felt like I was duty bound to engage with her or our marriage would be over. She warned a previous partner that she would have an affair if she didn't have sex in the relationship, and followed through with it. Because I was not involved with Alanon at the time, I felt like it would be my fault if she had an affair, since she had warned me that she would. That decision was a prime example of me not thinking that my needs are as important as hers.

She brought up the topic again this morning. I am not sure how to respond or react this time, but reading everyone's comments here has really helped me feel like I have a right to how I am feeling.

LedfootJenny · Senior Member

This is one area of my marriage where detached love is the most challenging. We are both working our programs, had a good day / night complete with reading a devotional and talking calmly about our concerns wants and needs.

He wanted to be intimate, I was sick and wasn't sure. I thought I felt safe enough to "try" to go there. I won't fake it though, as that feels like lying for me. Nothing happened for me physicially, but I was hoping that we would maintain the emotional closeness for awhile longer.

Nope - old habits die hard. He is still a narcissist, who looks out for number one. I gave into his needs - he then returned his AH self and put on some obnoxious show at full blast until midnight. He completely ignoring my requests to "please turn that off, I've been sick and need to sleep". "This show seems important to you, so could you watch it in the living room?". He just sat in silence.

After earplugs, tossing and turning and then tears - I said "ok, the choice in front of us is you turn off TV or I sleep somewhere else".
He just replied "you're closer, you turn it off". And I did. (sucker).

A few minutes later in the dark I managed to state that "that was really insensitive". He half-heartedly said "I'm sorry"... I called him out and said " well, that's a lie" and he never disputed the fact.

I hate this.

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

Wow .... I am so glad I read this. Here I am judging myself all this time thinking that I should have done something different and the esh was exactly what I did in our relationship (spoke my truth) .... I seriously feel much better about my choices now!!! I am not saying I am completely innocent. I did go overboard a few times, however I don't have a quick temper and I am pretty level headed until the violence started. My ex-A now just wants overpower me with violence because I speak. I could say "how are you?" and that would go awry. Wow I feel better after reading this post!!!

Mirandac · ~*Service Worker*~

This is an old thread but a good one.

My marriage started having Cracks because of emotional intimacy,
my ah complained i stopped Touching him cuddling that type of thing.
He was not validating me And he did not cuddle me either anymore.
Before going to alanon i could not have Explained the whys, our sex
life was still fine but it was the emotional Connection that was breaking
and fracturing.

My dry ah was not validating me and my feelings and emotions Then
resentments and hurt feelings started to grow and fester. Before you
Know it you do not want to be vulnerable to him anymore Because you
can not trust him with your inner self. Which is what is so important
In a healthy marriage. Love,trust,faith and honesty.

At the end of our marriage my ah told me i was cold and uncaring
Wife. I did not meet his emotional needs. He would beg me to touch
Him and i was very resistant but i did not undersand what held me
Back. When we were first married we were always holding hands or
I was sitting in his lap that went on way past the honeymoon stage.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.