Why do I feel guilty? - Al-Anon Family Group

Nankiepooh · Member

Why do I feel guilty?

bud · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi and welcome to MIP. You're in the right place. Alcoholism/ addiction is a powerful, baffling, and cunning disease. If not halted by abstinence it is progressive to an endpoint of insanity or death. A 12 step program helps rebalance the distorted thinking that comes as part of the disease. It affects everyone in contact; living with someone with it is generally too much to handle alone. Alanon provides support and skills to replace ones that do not serve us well.

I have found that the most efficient way to work the program is attend face-to-face meetings, grab a sponsor and start working the steps. Coming to MIP has been a lifeline. Read through the posts and learn all you can about the disease.

It sounds like you have some good awareness and I can relate. It can seem confusing to have so many different thoughts, but under the circumstances, it is normal to not feel attracted to someone who smells badly and is not behaving in a considerate manner. Guilt can come from many places... possibly from manipulations, unrealistic expectations, from self-doubt, eroding self-esteem, lack of forgiveness, etc... I have found that working this program has made me aware just how unproductive and destructive guilt can be! Working on the steps has shown me how to look at guilt when it arises and understand where it's coming from and how I can replace it with a better perception and thought process.

Keep coming back- this program works!!!

Kerrymom · Senior Member

Hope you find comfort and guidance here. I'm new but just wanted to say I also wish my AH would vanish and at my first Face to Face meeting heard from others they had those thoughts too. Made me feel so much better! Take care!

Nankiepooh · Member

Thank you so much for your response. I will go through the twelve steps. At least I know I am not alone.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

I invite you to ask you, "what is it that I feel guilty?"

people who are living with gender identity issues almost have it the worst. They are rarely understood and live in a lot of pain. I have a dear friend who is fm. He is such a wonderful person. Very creative,loves animals. But can be treated horribly. Is actually a very good looking man too.

You are in a very hard place that is for sure. But it is not up to you to take care of her. You have a right to your self and what you need. As far as sex, that is not a have to either.

Sounds like she is very honest with you. Maybe you feel guilty because you are not honest with her. One thing i love is,

"To Thine Own Self be True." Neither of you chose this, a good counselor helps in these situations.

I want you to know there is a high rate of suicide for these people.

Focusing on the alcohol, that is her obstacle. It is not our problem as we can do nothing to help it. By being codependant, we are very much hurting them. Al Anon teaches us to stop giving them all the attention and take care of ourselves and others that we love.

A person who drinks like this will soon not be able to function. So we share our experience of how we took care of ourselves to make sure when they go under, and they will, we have prepared ourselves. Stick money away, make a plan for a way to be ok alone, or ok when she can no longer work.

She cannot stop drinking without being sick and for it to not be very dangerous. Detox needs to be monitored.

We care very much, all of us have gone thru the pain you are in. We will always listen.

I have been at mip many years, I can tell you this is one of the most serious shares I have ever read. You are very courageous to share.

I know you care about your A very much. You are in a very hard position and need support. if you need help finding a support group or ? feel free to pm me.

Lots of hugs!

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

I used to wish my ex would vanish or even die, I thimk this is common when we live in the insanity. You dont have to live this way. You can have a life of your own seperate from the jack show. I felt like an extra in the drama and chaos. I thought I had no choice but there is always choice, in every situation. Alanon will help you, if you want the help and have an open mind.x

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Dean Nankiepooh

Welcome to Miracles in Progress.

You have received many powerful responses and I would just like to add that you are not alone and that I am glad you shared.

Alcoholism is a progressive, fatal disease over which we are powerless. The situation you described and the confusion in your home is familiar to many who live with an alcoholic. Alanon face to face meetings the Steps, the principles all have been developed to assist the family to cope with the insanity of this disease.

Face to Face meetings are held in most communities and we do have on line meetings here 2xs a day.

Please continue to reach out and connect--There is hope and help.

Cathyinaz · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome Nankiepooh

A year ago my guilt was though the roof. It was me that made my son the way he was. It was me that ruined his life because I was not there for him. Well, after one short year I can say I have no more guilt about his choices in life.

I can also say I'm in a better place now. It didn't happen right away and it took a whole lot of Al-anon to figure out ME and why I'm like I am.

You say you don't want to hurt his feelings but he is an adult and can make his choices but if you don't want to continue to have YOUR feelings hurt you need to make good choices for you now and not for him. You can love him for who he is but you need to love you also.

Take care and keep coming back because you are not alone the help is at your fingertips.

Let go let God....

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Nankie, to me it sounds like you are with a person who has so many issues and is holding you hostage through the process. The guilty feelings are that you seem to be realizing that it is all too much, that you can't fix him, that maybe you this isn't working out and you deserve more peace, calmness and serenity in your life even though you have tried so very very very hard to "be there", to support, to help.... I can understand all that. With my ex-A it all hit me like a ton of bricks when I finally realized: "Wow. He is really too messed up for me to fix. It isn't about me and my supporting him. No, he doesn't need me to get better because he is going to go through his drama and sickness regardless and he just doesn't want to do more on his own cuz he's scared." So, Nankie....I get it. When you commit to someone in a marriage, the idea is for better or worse and I can see how you might feel you are doing what you are supposed to do by sticking in there no matter what. HOWEVER, it does seem like you are losing yourself in his problems and his alcoholism....Alanon can help you find your way again and start tending you your own needs and desires in life. What about you? What do you want? Sound like the marriage has been all about him....not that I don't empathize with his pain and confusion....But I am hearing him forcing you to care for him and neglect yourself.

Inrecovery · Member

"Nankiepoo" welcome to MIP. Glad you took the courage to share. For me when I came to alanon mtgs first I came full of guilt an shame too. After coming awhile,listening,sharing when I could,getting a sponsor,working the steps,etc.i realized I was carrying a lot of guilt and shame that wasn't mine to carry. Being the codependent that I was,I tried to keep everything running smoothly and when it didn't the A would get mad and yell at me and I would feel guilty for not having kept everything ok. Then I learned I didn't cause it,I can't control it,and I can't cure it. It's a disease. It can only be arrested by total abstinence and only if they choose to. Nothing I do or say will fix it. So the best thing I did was start doing for myself what "I" wanted and taking care if "me". Keep coming back and posting. I also encourage going to f2f mtgs, a sponsor,and the 12 steps. You're in the right place!

Nankiepooh · Member

I have read through some of the posts and realized that we are all so the same in different ways. Regretting, praying, hanging on and hoping. I do not know anymore how to take care of myself first. I feel dead, like a robot. Seeing that Jack is frustrated and so deeply want to take away all his confusion and pain. I also am trying to not mention the drinking and buying of alcohol but it is so hard not mentioning or even showing that I am dissapointed. If I open my mouth then a long conversation starts...I shut up and look at him. Frustrating him even more but as soon as I try to raise my opinion or give my input when he asks for it, he bloody answers or comment before I even finished. It feels as if I am going crazy. He complains about finances (ya right spending the so needed money on booze is not going to solve it but it will sure make it better? Endless speeches, conversations happened but with no resolution. Maybe I should start drinking again then we both can be "not coping"

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Nankiepooh, You are correct we are all dealing with the same/different issues.That is because alcoholism is a progressive disease with recognizable symptoms. We who live with this disease also have recognizable symptoms and that is why we need a program of recovery. Our thinking becomes distorted by trying to force solutions and we decide to self sabotage in an effort to escape the insanity.

Alanon and MIP have members who understand as few others can and who are using constructive new tools to live by. We support each other in this difficult endeavor and by so doing we recover our own self worth and self esteem. I urge you to search out Face to face meetings in your community If there are none here is the schedule of on line meetings held here: There is hope

Morning Meetings

Mon. - Fri. at 9am EST

Sat. - Sun at 10am EST

Each Sunday morning at 10 am EST, we will be having a Spiritual meeting with a topic relating to the Spiritual part of our program.

Night Meetings

Mon-Saturday 9PM eastern time

Sunday 7PM eastern time

Each Thursday night at 9PM EST, we will be having a Step/Tradition Meeting to help new people get to know and understand how to work the 12 steps.
After going through one Step per week, and getting through the 12 of them, we then start a Tradition a week on this same night.

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Nankiepooh!

You are correct, we have gone through so much of this ourselves. I have bought wine for my AW before, I figured something like "what the heck? She's going to buy it anyway. And she seems to be handling it OK now" 1 month later, I was getting a phone call that she had had her second driving under the influence charge, and ended up in jail for 10 days. She is no in recovery. BTW The 10 days of jail time seems to have become her bottom, and she is in recovery now. If I would have shielded her from that somehow, she would still be drinking to this day, barring auto accidents etc...

If I were back in the same situation, I would have told her why I didn't buy wine, and what I would do if she did. Since we were on vacation it likely would have involved leaving the premises and going to another hotel for the night. Her alcohol isn't going to dictate the rest of the family's life any more than I can help it. And I am now able to help it since Al Anon and addiction therapy have cleared my head on what is right and what is wrong. I hope you can get the same kind of peace.

As for engagement with my AW, I had to break off almost all engagement, not only when she was drunk, but afterwards as well. When she wasn't drunk, she was looking for any way to get there again, and would manipulate, deny, rationalize, and yell until she got it again. So talking to her was of no use, and just made me further insane.

I hope you can get to a face to face or online meeting. If you are feeling insane, then recovering your sanity is possible, but it really depends upon getting involved with Al Anon.

Kenny

PS You're not alone! Isn't that great??!

-- Edited by KennyFenderjazz on Thursday 6th of March 2014 02:55:03 PM

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm so sorry you are going through this but so glad you have found us.

If someone we're with is suicidal, we do get that alarmed "It's all up to me!" reaction, feeling the need to save them. But of course we can't run their lives. If there's an imminent threat of suicide, the best thing to do is to call the authorities. They have the expertise and the experience to save someone on the brink. The burden is too much for us, we're not trained in it, and we can't handle that burden alone. It is not even safe for us to try to handle it alone.

Jack does have so many problems, but however supportive you are, you're not trained to solve them, plus no one's partner should be that person's therapist. It sounds as if things have evolved so you feel responsible for Jack's well-being (because he is not taking full responsibility on himself). But his psychiatrist and other professionals are the ones who have the expertise and stamina to help him. Meanwhile the weight is threatening to crush you. I've been under that weight too. It's awful.

I hope you'll work the program for your own recovery, because when we've been sucked into the insanity of alcoholism, our own thoughts have been distorted and we need recovery to get us back our serenity and perspective.

I hope you'll read the threads here, find a good face-to-face meeting (there are also meetings online here), get the literature, and keep coming back. Hugs.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Nankie...the MIP family has given you so much Experience Strength and Hope to support you in this which we also know about. There are good similarities in your story along with mine and we all have those similarities here it is why we know we are family and in the right place. Read your original share as if you were sitting in our chair and see if you can see it like we do. You didn't bargin for this when you chose your partner and this is not the dream you dream't which would get nicer and nicer. I agree that you are being held hostage by the disease with its insanity as you have been caught in and I know from my own experience that along with the support of the program and the fellowship including MIP you are the one to decide when "you're done" with it. It has been mentioned here that if the disease of alcoholism isn't arrested by total abstinence it will progress into insanity and death. You have already mentioned evidence of the insanity as he demonstrates it and do you know how you are demonstrating it? I knew I was insane before I reached the doors of Al-Anon and at the same time I was watching my alcoholic/addict wife killing herself. She could hold a job and do it well and that wasn't evidence of being "high functioning". The consequences for doing a good job are very different than alcoholic drinking and the functioning is 180 degrees out. The fatal aspect of the disease isn't reserved for the alcoholic only...very often the victims loose their lives also and in ways which are horrible and without even drinking a drop of the chemical. I was suicidal when I reached the doors of recovery...I had called the suicide prevention center and no one was available to help and there was someone at Al-Anon.

Why do you feel guilty? maybe because you are using a value system that has no value when the marriage is altered by the disease of alcoholism. He is chemically altered (you know this) and you are not. Alcohol is a mind and mood altering chemical. You are living with and trying to rationalize with someone who cannot and also will not. Alcohol comes first...before anything else. He is addicted and he will continue to drink in spite of the evidence and consequence. You are married to a eventual suicide. Alcoholism isn't a moral issue...its a disease...a compulsion of the mind with an allergy of the body. As you have been told...you didn't cause this....you cannot control it...and it will not be cured. It predates the life of the Christ by thousands of years. If there are Al-Anon meetings in your area get to them as quickly as you can and if not thank God Betty has posted the MIP online meetings to your post. Keep coming back (((((hugs))))) smile

Nankiepooh · Member

Thanks guys for all the words of wisdom. However I am in South Africa and we are seven hours before you. If someone is attending a meeting can anyone just please leave me a quick reminder and i will logg in. What I like about this site is that I can access the mobile version as well. So no matter where I am I will attend. I desperatly need to start this process because I do want to stay with him but cannot see myself living with him in the future? Does that make sense?

Tonight we layed on our bed, he is as mellow as can be, but had a bottle already for the day. He talked about his feelings and the way that his body is also feeling right now, again making excuses saying that if "only I could get the promotion" " If I could only start with the transitioning"......blah blah blah. The only words I could get out is: You need to get some help....(fullstop) he cuddled and was looking for my affection, I so desperatly wanted to "feel" him but there was nothing...ziltz....I got up and started to ready myself for work.

It is 03:07 am and I am at work and he just texted me now saying that he is awake...again. I decided that I would not comment anymore on the bottles of vodca being consumed, (hence him being awake at this time) I will not be a defensive wife who will point out everything that I think will save this marriage/relationship/friendship. I want to say something that will "stick" but I know that whilst him drinking like this, nothing will stick.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

There are no magic words that stick, if there were the thousands of people here and the people before us would have found them. There is nothing that can be said that will make a difference, no threats, pleading, nothing. The desire to recover comes from within himself and often comes when drinking has lost them everything. The best thing you can do is get help for yourself, are there Alanon meetings in you area?

Nankiepooh · Member

No I have to travel hundreds of miles.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

There are online meetings here on this site, that will help. Also, if you go the official alanon website you will find literature that you can buy to get you started. Alanon is a program that teavhes you a new way to think and helps you heal from the effects of another persons drinking. I felt better right away. I hope you stick around.x

Nankiepooh · Member

He came to me today and said he does not want to feel this way anymore and that tomorrow he will not drink anything.I don't believe him. He asked me for intimacy but I refused. He asked me if HE repulses me I answered that I DO NOT want sex because the SMELL is a turn off. I may be imagining it but I could smell it on his skin to. He fell asleep about an hour ago.

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Nankiepooh,

You are not imagining it. there are ankle bracelets for sale now that use the alcohol being aspirated from the skin to be able to measure the BAC of the wearer.

also, as far as times of the online meetings: I see you are GMT+2 in south Africa, therefore 7 hours ahead of us. Therefore meetings are
1600 (4 PM) Mon-Fri
400 (4 AM) Tue - Sun
1700 (5 PM) Sat & Sun
200 (2 AM) Monday

These are in the chat room, located in upper left hand corner of this page. There are quite often people hanging in there as well, especially post meeting, but quite often throughout the day, that can help you as well.

I see there are no Al Anon meetings in your area, are there AA meetings he can go to?

Either way, take care of yourself!

peace
Kenny

Nankiepooh · Member

So many things were said last night and I did not want to respond to any of them. I am selfish, a b@@h and does not help with the drinking. Meaning if I am not "warm" this makes him feel more depressed. " I am doing this because I do not know how to cope""YOU are not helping, being the coldhearted b@@h you are by pushing me away constantly, I have to put in a resume for a hug!not even talking about intimacy. You only care about yourself and loves a scene. Open your damn mouth and say something!" I open it and say one sentence then one hour elaborating on his side, talking in circles, saying constantly he wants help but only after his promotion. I turned around and went to bed. Just before midnight, after hours of him talking. He stayed away from work today. Finished the bottle vodca and is still sleeping. It is 10am and after he woke up...I don't know. Lord give me strenght to keep my mouth closed I want to be the best wife and mother, grant me the patience to be that. Lord please end this madness! You know my heart and my life, even that what is still to come. I need a light Jesus!I need a resolution! Need a break!

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.