support vs enabling question - Al-Anon Family Group

ssilver · Member

support vs enabling question

Breakingfree · ~*Service Worker*~

I am so glad you have face to face al-anon meetings near you, that is the best place for me, MIP is good too, and yes finding a sponsor, I found mine in meetings and listened to the wisest person that seemed to work a great program and she was willing. The book "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews was helpful for me to read and anything al-anon like the literature they have at most meetings. Also they usually have a call list at those meetings and others may be able to help guide you towards sponsorship and support. I don't apologize to people unless I feel I am in the wrong and if you thought he was not sober as the Dr suggested there is nothing to apologize for and you can't apologize for the Dr that is for her if she thinks she is in the wrong, but it does sound like she was professional and just wanted him to be accountable. Weird that the breathalyzer was broken, but alcoholics believe their own stories too. Sending you much love and support and keep coming back!

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha ssilver and welcome to the board. At times I would allow my alcoholic/addict wife to feel her own emotions without trying to judge them or take responsibility for what happened and the outcome. It was her choice and so at times when she had a reaction I would ask her "How come you feel that way". As a former therapist had I been in the room with you both I may have had the same input his doctor did. Why because we saw the disease and how it worked on a daily basis...we knew and knew that we knew and we have to be forthcoming without adding risk to the fatal natural of alcoholism and drug addiction. We knew that an alcoholic or addict who didn't accept the presence of the disease in their life was in denial and in denial would do anything to protect it from being attacked. While the disease was under attack they would take it personal and taking it personal usually gave rise to defense. He asked you why you didn't defend him from the doctors assessment. If you join in with him in the defense that is enabling the situation to get worse. What I hear you saying here is that in part you agree with her as to his condition. It was hard for me to be open with my alcoholic/addict and honest...I didn't want to hurt her feelings at the sake of my own and so one night after an AA meeting she ask me; the one person she knew would refrain from hurting her feelings, "Do you think I am an alcoholic addict". You know I said "no" and the consequence was she went back out...relapsed for another 5 years and it almost killed her and me. Alcoholism gets permissions and allowances from enablers regardless who they are or position they hold in the life of the alcoholic. I've seen courts and judges and doctors enable alcoholics and addicts to their demise. "Courage is fear that has said its prayers" is one of the wisdoms from within our One Day At A Time in Al-Anon daily reader. I had to learn that courage and then to said what I mean't, mean what I said and not say it mean. Being open and honest with an alcoholic you have long history with is a huge education. We can help. Keep coming back here and continue to go to your Al-Anon meetings...make one a home group, get the literature and read daily, find that sponsor who will say yes to your request for sponsorship and get into the steps, traditions, service and such. Often there are AA meetings at the same time and location as Al-Anon. ((((hugs)))) smile

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Sounds like a lot of round and round and guessing games and unecessary manipulation. If a known alcoholic doesn't want their sobriety questioned, they should go to AA and work a program. This "taper" thing and making up a program that has worked for um...nobody...is just keeping the games and BS alive. I would detach until he wants to work a REAL program and stop the games. Just me.

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

I agree with the others...and why does he have a breathalyzer and why would you buy him a new one? That is enabling. You will find that we are loving and direct. When I first entered into recovery, I would get offended by direct comments as I felt ashamed and foolish that I was living with an alcoholic/addict. I wanted to cover that up and heal without anyone knowing how bad I felt or how much shame I was harboring. We won't blame you or shame you...and if any of those feelings are invoked, let us know. Keep coming back, read many of the other posts and I agree 100% with what you have posted about what your doctor said in the examining room...she is a keeper. Yay for her for having the courage to discuss the elephant in the room. (((hugs)))

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

pinkchip wrote:
Sounds like a lot of round and round and guessing games and unecessary manipulation. If a known alcoholic doesn't want their sobriety questioned, they should go to AA and work a program. This "taper" thing and making up a program that has worked for um...nobody...is just keeping the games and BS alive. I would detach until he wants to work a REAL program and stop the games. Just me.

I agree...the "tapering" thing does not work......commitment to AA and the steps or it won't work....the disease is bigger than them...They cannot fight this or stay sober w/out AA

as for you??? alanon for you so you keep the focus on you and learning detachment as pinkchip says is one thing you will learn.....you want to reduce stress???? alanon is for you...to help you...to help you find balance in your life whether he goes to AA or not....alanon will help you manage you and of course your stress levels....I am more stressed when I try to control things that are outside my own skin....alanon and the meetings and steps will show you the way towards a better way of living....

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome to MIP. Lots of strong and good Al-Anon spoken here by the previous posters. I just want to let you know that I read your post and I'm glad you've joined us. Keep coming back.

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome silver,
Welcome to MIP - there are some wonderful people here who understand so well.
I'm glad that all is going better with your health, that is quite a hurdle that you've cleared, and also that your doctor is highlighting the importance that stress is kept to a minimum. This is a great time to enjoy your life!
I don't see any need for an apology in what you have posted, and I don't see any reason for you to doubt yourself either.
Like you I've been with my AH for a long time (34 years) and I love him a lot. Like you, things are not really working out so well now that we are semi-retired so lots of change going on here as well.
So for lots of reasons, I hope you keep coming back!

ssilver · Member

Thanks to you all for your input. I understand that you're not being harsh when you tell me your honest thoughts. If I was easily hurt, I wouldn't have persevered this long. But, like the frog in the boiling pot, my view of normalcy can be quite a bit off before I jump out. I am not ready to abandon my marriage but am ready to make positive, if difficult, changes, with or without my AH.

As to normalcy, is it common for the alcoholic spouse to feel threatened or resentful of Al-Anon meetings, not to mention sponsors? If so, has anyone found a way to be less confrontational about them? Since we are both retired now (though not elderly!) I can't just wait until he has gone to work or is otherwise distracted. He knows I want to go to meetings, but still thinks I'm punishing him or somehow scolding about him. I've expressed that Al-Anon is not that way and that it's for both bad and good times. I know what I need to do, regardless. Just working it out. Thanks again.

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

These are common behaviors for an alcoholic. I found it best to say something like, "I understand your feelings and this is something I need to do anyway". Then, do what you believe to be the best for you whether he likes it or not.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Nice share!!!

Lets see, the doctor thing. Doctors are human too, mine was bi polar, she would tell me about other patients, no names but I felt it was inappropriate. She also was pretty strange. So in saying that, I find what she said was inappropriate. How much or where someone shows affection to his loved one is none of her business!She is there to help with the physical problems. Also if he bothers you, YOU are the one who would want to tell him in private!

This is my experience.

His disease is his own, his breathalizer is his own. If he goes into recovery that is totally up to him to decide, plan and carry out. I would not even take them to rehab. I learned the hard way when two times my Ah came back the next day.

Their disease will say anything to keep using. So the tapering, saying he is not using whatever is just his choice and none of our business. I would say to mine when he brought it up, hon that is your disease, not mine. I love you but I want to hear about you not your disease.

You could tell him yourself that he was not bothering you and you found it strange or however you want to put it, how she acted. I want to say also you can tell her that you would appreciate her not getting into you twos relationship, stick to the medical end. If she does not comply all docs have an office manager, I would contact them for sure.

There is no reason you cannot change docs either.

It sounds like you guys love each other very much. Sadly addiction is progressive, over time the body including the mind are more and more damaged. In the latter stages they usually become wet brained. He indeed may not be drunk but the damage is there making him act like it.

you may want to share with him what Al Anon is. It is the most loving way for us to learn how to be the best person for our A. Many people believe it is all of us talking bad about them, finding ways to leave, being encouraged to leave.

I was able to stay with my very sick AH for much longer due to Al Anon and the wonderful people who supported me. I gleaned every moment. wish I still could!

sending you so much love and to your husband too! please keep coming, Debilyn

In The Forest · Veteran Member

Silver, in regard to your question about if it is normal for the alcoholic to feel threatened or resentful towards ala non I do not know. But, just this week I told my husband I want to start attending ala non meetings. I was extremely nervous about telling him for the reasons you stated. It would finally be acknowledging the big white elephant in the room. We only have meetings here during the day when I'm at work or Sunday night when we are usually home so I wanted to be honest with my husband about where I'm going. Sounds like a similar situation to yours. When I finally told him he just said OK. Then after some thought he said he would stop drinking because he doesn't want me to have that stress. I hope he is not saying that as an attempt to get me to not attend meetings. My first meeting would have been last night but I couldn't attend because of a horrible winter storm. I wish I could have gone and gotten my first meeting out of the way. I want him to know I mean what I said and that I need to do this for me. So, I don't know the answer to your question but I certainly would think you are not the only one struggling with this. When I told my husband I just kept it short and sweet. I said, I want to start going to ala non meetings because I think it will help me. If there are future discussiona I plan to keep the focus on me and my need for help. If he says he is quitting as an excuse to prevent me from going I plan to tell him his drinking is not the only drinking that effects me.

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

At first my stbax was indifferent about the meetings and I did tell him. However .. as I went and started to change them he became threatened and there was conflict after. I think at that point I was done anyway .. so I just kept going. On the flip side lol .. I started attending open AA meetings and did not tell him I was going to those. He found out after he left. I truly enjoy those meetings. I'm glad those were just mine. The Dr deal .. you said there had been a history of her awareness of his drinking and issues. I do not find what she did it of line it actually sounds to me line she was letting him know he's not fooling anyone except himself. Plus I love how the A's make things about them. Your the one the Dr is trying to talk to and he's fawning over you like a child wanting attention. I don't know your AH's motives that was the picture I got from your description of the situation. Do I think the Dr or you owes him an apology? No. I take Pinks stance .. don't be drunk in public and pretend you aren't. The Dr called him out. He didn't like the pink elephant in the room being noticed and got defensive. Oh well .. that's life. I hope you will go to meeting regardless of his reaction .. they are for you and about you. They are live savers. They are stress reducers. So I encourage you to go .. no one is going to tell you what to do .. we are all on our own journeys trying to do the best we can. Hugs keep coming back ...

flinn66 · Senior Member

My experience was that the A did resent Al-Anon, slowly I changed, started to look after myself and detach from the insanity. Living with alcoholism had changed me and for a long time my obsession with the alcoholic blinded me to the changes that were occurring in my life, yes it was resented as was my attendance at Conventions or open AA meetings.

Going back to your original post - what do you or the Dr have to apologise for? Ok he was comforting you - I used to get the over attention in public, it belied the reality of the situation. The Dr saw an alcoholic and called him on it, my ex had a variety of Dr's and mental health workers - they all called him on it - actually I guess that is their job as health professionals. Of course they were all wrong and therefore changed!He hasn't got better and his insanity just increased.

I still love him, feel great sadness at his illness but there was and remains nothing I can do for him and if I were to try I would only damage myself. That is the disease, cunning, baffling and powerful. You have recovered from a serious illness, please look after you and remember Al_anon is there for you

Hugs

ssilver · Member

Sorry for the delayed response. I did go on to my face-to-face Al-Anon meeting. AH and I'd had a good day together, but when I reminded him I'd be going that evening he was quite upset. So, I figure there is no better way to present the matter - just have to stick to my guns. I told him I was sorry he felt so strongly against it, but I'd be going anyway. Then, I quit trying convince him it was okay and tuned out the garbage. I'm not surprised, just sorry, that making honest and positive change causes him so much grief. It's helpful, though, to know I'm not alone in having to fight for it. It keeps that nagging doubt that I'm the crazy one at bay. Thanks again!

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