Guidance on detaching WITH LOVE ?? - Al-Anon Family Group

texas yankee · Senior Member

Guidance on detaching WITH LOVE ??

yanksfan51 · ~*Service Worker*~

TY:

I struggle with detaching w love and compassion also. For a long time, living w the disease had me detached alright--I was becoming totally absent so I knew that wasn't quite right. Although I know longer live with my qualifier, what helps when I am talking to him is separating in my mind when it's him talking and when it's the disease. I respond less to the disease talking but with love to all of it.

Ex: 'I can pick kids up after school and then is tonight a good one for them to stay at my place?' Me: 'Absolutely! That's great and I know the kids will be excited about that too'

Disease talking through ex: 'I really overdid it last night; I know I;ve got to stop this; I just don't know if I'm an AA guy, I just have to step away from the bar for awhile' Me:'You know there's lots of help all around and available to you'

It is a tough one and I work at it every day....

YF

maryjane · ~*Service Worker*~

Oh oh. This is the old book for alanon, and while I generally love this book it does occasionally give the impression that we have some control over the alcoholic..... and our step 1 says we don't..... ever...... no matter if we change our attitude or have compassion or love or any other nice thing.
The sentence is "I pray for detachment from the situation, but not from the drinker who may be helped to find the way to sobriety through the change in my attitude....." etc. We all know that there is nothing we can do to make him drink and nothing we can do to make him stop.

you change your attitude FOR YOU. Life is a whole lot better with a good attitude even when life is throwing us crappy situations. Have some love and compassion for yourself and it will bleed over onto everything else.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

MaryJane

I like the ODAT. I think I always confused compassion and love with, fixing people, making their life easier and making myself invisible.

Alanon taught me that detachment simply asked me to stay within my life, "feeling my own feelings" allowing other people to feel theirs. Then for me to treat them with courtesy,respect and a kind word of support.

For example:: I am sorry you are feeling poorly. Hope you feel better. What do you think you can do to fix this?

That worked for me.

As far as attitudes are concerned: The opening in my alanon meetings suggests that "Changed attitudes may aid recovery" Our recovery and that of the entire family.

It is something to consider

-- Edited by hotrod on Friday 3rd of January 2014 09:30:02 AM

ryanhearted · Senior Member

Thanks for the examples yanksfan and hotrod. It is a hard concept, texas yankee, and one that I am currently struggling with as well. What I can say, is keep coming back to these meetings and message boards. There is help out there and it works!

MeTwo2 · ~*Service Worker*~

Sometimes detaching with Love is for Me .. I was Always about the Alcoholic .. in fact, there really was No me; there was him .. him First Others First .. today I'm realising how much i've had to detach in meetings .. even detach my thinking of him and begin to focus on me for the first time ever.. Alcohol drugs were His problem; mine was obsession fixing anger controlling blaming, feeling etc .. on a spiritual level who knows, there were days when i had more problems than him .. still have more than others when i think of my feelings as problems to be fixed .. Honest shares ? it's not always been the priceless gift of serenity .. I had to become willing to learn about me too .. in order for me to do that, I had to detach from my own embarrassment, shame, vulnerability, confusion, obsessions, fear, anger, denial, etc.. and share where i was at with a group .. realised through all the detaching I was loving Me for the first time .. I'm still just learning to love me .. before alanon it was really like what do i need to look at me for .. i don't have the problem, i have the solution .. just get him in recovery and I will be fine .. truth is .. it's the effects of thinking .. his mine everyones i was powerless over .. effects ? confusion obsession, shame, the above .. if he had just gotten in to recovery, therefore, he would have had recovery and maybe clearer honest thinking had he chosen but even if he worked the best recovery possible ever .. i would still have been a mess .. as for compasson it will grow one day at a time with understanding of the disease .. i still get tripped up on them or stagger over to the other side of the street when i'm ''thunk (my drunk; i get drunk of feelings) which i've been the past few weeks with family having been here but i'm still holding and never go back today to the same degree i used to. regardless of slips, what i do know today is reasoning with the group and these rooms, literature, etc.. is where my thinking is going to clear .. it doesn't get clear when i talk to them .. amazing how the resolve doesn't need to come through the two in conflict necessarily .. good luck in this .. this is my experience only .. take what like and leave the rest please .. distractions on my end too; hope isn't too much .. hard to concentrate or keep simple right now .. Thanks !!! helps me to remember too, attitude is what I tell ''myself and doesn't have to always do with how i feel ..

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

This was tricky for me at first but I think its about being courteous, if the alcoholic is ranting away about something you might not rush in with your take on things, you might just listen with no judgement and use feedback like, is that how you feel? or im sorry you feel that way. You dont make plans on their behalf or excuses on their behalf, you don't give them a row about anything, you show them love through not judging their actions or their attitude, so you don't attempt to modify them, if they are talking nonsense then you don't say 'your talking nonsense' you listen without judging or trying to change their viewpoint, you might disagree with something but whats the point in telling them - you might just say I feel differently, and end it there, you don't have to make them see your point of view, they wont anyway.

Some women at my meeting talk about giving their alcoholic husbands blankets when they pass out, whereas before they would have turned off the heating. You might offer them tea or just be pleasant no matter how they are behaving. That is not to say we put up with abuse. If the person becomes hostile towards you, you might say, 'I cant be in this room if you speak to me that way so please stop or I will leave', then if they continue you leave the room. You never argue but you never listen to abuse either, if things escalate then you may leave or you may have them leave, you may even phone the police to have them removed, it all depends on them really.

Its like treating them like you would any other person in the World, its untangling all the guilt, resentment, fear and everything else that becomes part of your relationship and all that stuff is useless and harmful, it makes you put up with bad behaviour and even think you deserve it, maybe even encourage it in some level.

When I first began detaching from my eldest son, it felt so strange and wrong but I only had a couple of stand offs and that was it done in many ways. Well, this is too simplistic because hes always looking for ways in and I can become complacent but I know what to do now so I dont think it will ever become that bad again.

I think its also about recognising that the person has a disease so in many ways that means you cant believe much that comes out their mouths and if you do then thats your fault so dont get all sad about their lies, they will behave badly often, so again, dont bother expecting good behaviour and then being disappointed when you dont get it, they may promise you the world, you wont ever get it so dont bother being angry about it. Accepting the person as is, all of it, all the crap and dealing with yourself properly.
Take what you like and leave the rest.x

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

I think it's often leaving the A to their own devices. If you don't they can't learn from their mistakes. So sometimes detaching with love just means leaving them alone.

texas yankee · Senior Member

Thanks everyone, for the supportive guidance - I've been going to meetings for a long time and guess I'm just thick-headed - it's hard to hear my son's voice and have to constantly remind myself that it's the disease speaking and not him - at least most of the time - sometimes, it seems like my real son is breaking through and I'm really talking with him, not the disease, but most of the time, sadly, it's the disease making excuses or spinning BS stories or telling me how great it's gonna be - and, I am sad and embarrassed to say, most of the time I get sucked in - I used to fool myself and explain my eagerness to believe what I thought I heard him saying was because I was an optimist - now, I know it's because I haven't been working MY program hard enough and I haven't REALLY been living what I was working on.

Thanks again for the encouragement.

cwya · Senior Member

I think maybe what the people in your meeting were talking about is a reading on detachment in Courage to Change on p.22. I've heard this reading discussed innumerable times at meetings along with the concept of spiritual and emotional detachment versus isolation. If my A has passed out on the lawn on a 20 degree winter's night, do I leave him to freeze to death? That may be ignoring the consequences of his actions but we'll go to jail for manslaughter just the same. Detachment inthis situation might mean calling the cops to report the body in your yard. They will probably take him somewhere warm to "sleep" it off and he'll be facing a judge soon enough. But if I see him in the yard (which I probably will s since Al-Anons are notorious for our vigilance in watching others instead of ourselves) but just go to bed with the attitude "Well, he chose to get drunk so I'm not going to prevent a crisis" then the person seeing the judge will be me. We strive to neither prevent nor cause a crisis because it might be what finally gets our A into the program. But I can guarantee it will do nothing to change me unless I recognize the opportunity for ME to learn about my own disease. Detachment is not isolation or abandonment. Not even separation usually. It means I don't give someone else the power to decide who I am and what I will do. When I detach with love, my spirit and mind understand I am not who someone else decides I am. My emotions are stirred up only if I choose to let someone else's words and actions define who I am.

If my A falls out of bed, I can step over him/her and go to bed righteous in my belief I left him to the consequences of his actions. Or I can toss a blanket over him and rest in the knowledge that if it happens enough he'll get help.

John · ~*Service Worker*~

I recently wrote a post about Detaching with Love... you might want to read it and see if it rings any bells. smile

http://alanon.activeboard.com/t54722805/detachment-with-love/

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

texas yankee wrote:
Today's reading in One Day at a Time in Al Anon talks about detachment - it has always been one of my big challenges - I think I understand part of detachment, about not jumping in to fix things and letting the alcoholic \ addict have responsibility for his \ her actions - but in today's reading it talks about "the change in my attitude and the love and compassion I am able to express" (underlining is mine) - any thoughts on appropriate or effective expressions of love and compassion without me falling back into the same trap of trying to fix problems?
If it makes any difference, my qualifier is my 28 year old adult son. Thanks in advance for any guidance.

my youngest brother, whom I am not too crazy about, but he IS a human being, addicted to both booze and drugs.....I have detached from him in peace and love because he is not a bad little fella, just majorally messed up and very uncouth with the oposite sex.....i can't be around him becuz he sounds like and is uncouth like the offender was and bless his heart, I feel badly about that, but i just can't be on phone w/him for any extended period of time b4 i begin to "tire" so detachment to take care of me...

detaching w/love only means humanely, (MY opinion) letting the other face the consequences they cause by their actions.....you let them stew in their own juice they make.....the most loving thing we can do is unhook from them and just let them drop...like trying to hold a ball up in the air...pretty soon your arms get tired and you say I am done...and you let the thing drop and whatever happens to it??? its not your ball, not your problem...not your thing to fix and you can't fix it so the best thing for BOTH parties is to drop it...let go.....

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

To me, detaching with love and compassion, starts with me and for me. If I can accept that what is happening to the other person is beyond my control, I can then ask myself what I can do to feel my feelings, listen to what I can do to help myself find peace within me, and go do it, then I no longer need fear to distance myself from the other person. To notice what happens inside me when I try to fix, rescue, lecture, demean, boss or control the other person is compassion for myself. To do none of those things because I am aware of what will happen inside me that is painful or discomforting and then choose to tend to myself is love. Both of us can be benefited by my choice to have compassion for myself and to do that which is most loving to free myself from unnecessary suffering and trauma. That, in turn, frees the other person to feel their own feelings and make choices that are more beneficial to them.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 3rd of January 2014 10:12:23 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 3rd of January 2014 10:13:10 PM

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm not I'm a place of detaching with love for the moment. I choose to detach and sometimes that is the best i have got in the moment. The way my daughter's therapist described it works for me. It's not accepting responsibility for someone else's consequences. I have to go to the court stuff going on. Detaching with love for myself and my daughter is telling the truth and allowing things to fall where they may. We are not responsible for his actions or the consequences that follow our only action is to tell the truth of what we experienced that evening. I can feel pity compassion even sadness that he's choosing to force the situation. I neither need to maximize or minimize the situation. It just is in the moment. We don't have contact at this point. I do pray or try to for the situation to have an outcome for the highest good possible of all concerned. Hugs and great topic.

lgnutah · Senior Member

I too have adult children and detaching with love is where I struggle.
I have found that just listening, when they want to talk (as long as I can understand...if I cant I tell them, im sorry, I cant understand you, and end the conversation....or I also set a boundary of turning my phone ringers off in the evening as a way of protecting myself from receiving late night slurred phone calls) and not criticising, and (attempting) to refrain from giving unsolicited advice.
And, telling them I love you.

texas yankee · Senior Member

The adventure continues - I got another call from my son this evening - my son's girlfriend \ fiance of 5 years broke up with him - he lied to her and told his her that he kissed another girl, so that she'd get mad and move out - he tells me that he didn't really kiss the other girl, but he told me that he told her he did because he doesn't want to hurt her any more because he doesn't believe he can ever be happy or ever love anyone - I felt like I was talking with someone in an insane asylum.

I'm thinking, WOW, this is way crazy, but I told him that I felt bad for him that he was feeling so bad - and that he should reach to to a friend or someone he can talk with - I also mentioned AA meetings or a sponsor - AFAIK, he's not using drugs, but he never worked a program after finishing a three month rehab for meth addiction 8 years ago - AND I offered to pay for him to go to some therapist \ counseling sessions to help him begin to figure out what's going in inside of him. IMHO, as good as the AA program is, and Al Anon, too, there are some issues like clinical depression and such that are beyond the program and that do require medical attention from a trained professional - perhaps prescribed medication, too.

So now I'm fighting, successfully so far, the urge to call him back and ask him what the heck is going on, and ask him how could he even think that this is anywhere close to a sane situation, and to tell him exactly what to do to get things straightened out - but I haven't done that - not because I'm so good at detaching or working my program - but because at least I have Step 1 down solid - nothing I could do here would do any good - it's like watching a terrible plane crash from a distance when you're powerless to do anything.

Did I go too far with my offer to pay for him to attend counseling sessions? Of course, I'd pay the counselor directly.

I am concerned that he'll do something desperate - again, I know I can't control what he does and that I'm powerless - and I think I just answered my own questions.

This really sucks . . .

-- Edited by texas yankee on Sunday 5th of January 2014 09:42:03 PM

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Texas Yankee,

This is indeed the insanity of alcoholism in action. It is not rational or in any manner a constructive solution to a problem. Alcoholism is not rational or solution oriented. It depends on chaos, illusion ,untruth and anger. Your son is doing what the disease tells him is respectable and honorable.

There is a passage in the ODAT that suggests that we do nothing to prevent crisis or anything to cause a crisis. That way, when the crisis happens it is the alcoholic's full responsibility and he can not blame anyone else.

Pray for your son I will as well.

texas yankee · Senior Member

Thank you, Betty - of course, you are right - and in my heart and mind I knew about not doing anything to prevent or cause a crisis - I'm not trying to avert a girl friend crisis - I don't care about that - I'm looking further down the road and thinking about him getting headed back to sanity - and I'm not sure that, given his mental situation, AA meetings will help with that part of his problem.

Would it be OK for me to pay for the therapist sessions ? No direct involvement on my part, aside from offerrig him the help if he want's to get better - like I did when he went to rehab.

Thanks!

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Absolutely , Offering him medical help, if he wants it and cannot afford it is fine

I do understand, Prayers help as well.

-- Edited by hotrod on Sunday 5th of January 2014 10:07:01 PM

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

Hugs Texas gal, you are a mom who cares about her kid's mental state. You have offered and the choice is his to accept it or not. It seems to me that now is the time to let go and let God so much easier said than done. Hugs s :)

texas yankee · Senior Member

Thanks again, Betty - I am so grateful for all the understanding, and prayers, from folks like you - I always thought I was a strong person - but this disease humbles me every single day. My prayers are, however being answered - my HP has shown me over and over about what I should be doing here - Step 3, for example - if He helps me, I need to trust that He will help my son, too.

Thank you very much, Betty.

texas yankee · Senior Member

SerenityRUS wrote:
Hugs Texas gal, you are a mom who cares about her kid's mental state.

I'm a guy - I was a a single Father for a lotta years - I had full custody of my kids - I cared, and I always tried to be a good Dad

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm sorry I'm on my phone and I can't refer back to the original post .. no offense intended .. it still sounds like you did what was right for you and your son. It's not easy being a single parent and trying to do the right thing for our kids. Hugs

texas yankee · Senior Member

No offense taken - the parent gig is tough for Moms and Dads . . . .

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