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There are things my daughter does that irritate me and things that can make my blood boil, momentarily but these things are usually very brief flare-ups because, lets face it, she's an awesome kid and she's pretty hard to be angry with.
But this thing that she's started doing? It's different. It makes me push her away from me and really, really want her not near me. I don't know why she keeps doing it she seems to think it's funny and for me, it really, really isn't. It makes me feel angry and actually kind of ill.
Her dad likes to grab (female) people hard and jab his fingers in- whether it's around your knee when you are sitting down, or into your ribs when you think you are about to get a hug, or basically anywhere that it feel horrible to have someone jab their fingers in and squeeze until you yelp. He perhaps thinks it is amusing and endearing. Personally I think it's abusive. It really hurts and makes it impossible to relax. And I've never seen him do it to one of his male friends...isn't that a funny thing? He just does it to females. Because it's funny and endearing to make females feel uncomfortable and defensive all the time. And to make them yelp. Women love being made to yelp.
Well apparently he still spreads around the joy because suddenly, daughter is doing it to me. She seems to think my anger is really funny. To me it's a revolting violation of my personal space and an awful reminder of something horrible her dad used to do. I hate it. Why wont she stop? If I mentioned it to her dad he would laugh hysterically and tell her to do it twice as often. He's like that. Clearly she thinks it's amusing. I don't.
ABF does something similar. Whenever I seem relaxed, he will go for a really uncomfortable spot and squeeze hard. What..the..hell..do..men..think..is..funny...about...this? It makes me angry, it makes me uncomfortable and it makes me not want him to touch me, at all, ever. I'm going to explain this to him actually, when he sobers up. Unlike my ex, I think he will comply. But I still don't get why they think it is amusing in the first place. I'm not talking about tickling, just to be clear.
I feel like walking around in a suit of armour. What is so funny about making me squirm and yelp and feel like I have to constantly fend off these nasty poking hands? Is this normal in other families? For everyone to poke at mum and laugh when she squeals? And how do I get it through to daughter that it isn't funny and she needs to stop?
I can relate in a way. While living with active alcoholism my "Startle Reflex" was in overdrive. Anytime I was startled I would REACT and Jump so high and scream so loud. My hubby thought it funny and then so did my son. Hubby stopped but when son was 5 or 6 he would wait until I thought he was asleep, sneak out into the living room and jump up from behind the coach just to see my reaction. Talking it over and reasoning it out with him seemed to work or he got bored and moved on to something else.
I think what you are experiencing is a little different. Talking it over is very important . Explain that this is not funny, abusive and next time there will be consequences should help. Then follow through with "a time out or a no TV for an hour rule.
When I was younger, my brother would overpower me and tickle me. I couldn't break away. It was violence with a smile and a laugh attached to it. I agree that talking things over and reasoning them out with your daughter followed by a consequence if she doesn't respect your no on this is a good thing. The other part to this for me is her Dad's meanness towards her. Do you think you can also talk things out with him about this? I'd feel angry towards him and his behavior, too. The frustrating thing for me in this circumstance is that knowledge that he didn't pay attention to me when I said "No." He's not going to pay attention to our daughter either. Is there a consequence that might work for him?
G2B, I am no longer with my daughter's father and he harbours a great deal of contempt for me. Any time I try to ask him not to do something, he does it twice as hard, twice as often. He sees this as normal and playful behaviour. Since my daughter finds it amusing and acceptable, there's very little I can do to stop him doing it with her at present. I assume her sister and stepmother all get the same treatment and squeal and laugh and say "stoooop it". But I bet his wife doesn't actually enjoy it because yes, when he did it to me it really was violence with a smile. It hurt and often left bruises. I don't think he is so rough with the children.
But in spite of ABF's issues, as I was writing this I realised, if I discuss it with him sober, he'll get on board. As a sober man he takes personal space very seriously. So step 1 is to agree with him that it's not OK to display this sort of behaviour towards me, and step 2 is to explain to daughter that regardless of what goes on at her dad's house, I do not like to be prodded and poked and will not accept it.
As she gets older she might decide she also doesn't like it and I will have set a precedent for her to stand up to her dad. And of course I will back her up.
Boy I hate being poked! It was one of the things my siblings would do to me as a child and it would make me mad then I would get spanked for getting mad because they were only having fun. I have this adult male person who I sometimes have to be around for a volunteer thing I do; I can't stand him or his phony patronizing wife - he has taken to trying to get in my space, touching me, poked me once in the sides hard and always tries to move so he is in my path - I am not at all sure how I am going to deal with this person - I don't want to be nasty to him but he doesn't seem to get the hint when I move away from him constantly. Haven't figured out what to do next time he tries to touch me.
Anyway, I once had a conversation with my daughter about something similar, she had taken to doing something I didn't like, I related it to something she didn't like and asked her how she would like it if I was always doing that to her even when she asked me to stop, and could she see how this thing she was doing was hurting me, really hurting me inside? She wasn't that old, children are pretty capable of understand stuff like that at pretty young ages. Heck, I even use that strategy on my bus with the little ones, asking if they like it when someone does that to them and appealing to their empathetic natures.
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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
Actually, it reminds me of an incident at my daughter's school, when she was about 7. The teacher phoned me to inform me that a group of boys had grabbed my daughter and a boy that she liked to play with and pushed them both onto the ground, the boy on top of her and forced him to rub all over her, yelling "look at them, they're "sexing". I was freaking mortified. The teacher said that she had "decided against calling the parents and had instead made the children involved do a lunch-time detention". But she felt that she should let me know. I asked my daughter about it and she said that afterwards the girls were sarcastic and mean, asking her "so, how was your date?"She was so humiliated. What a horrible experience.
I was beside myself. When daughter's dad came to collect her for his weekend that night, I tried to explain the situation to him as he sat in the car. I was looking for some support. At very least, I felt, the boys involved needed to be spoken to by their fathers. He laughed his head off at me and said "well, kids will be kids". It was dark and I hadn't realised, he had his father in the car with him and he was laughing like crazy too. I realised, all I had done was invite them to shake their heads and call me a crazy, neurotic B...
It's a vile attitude. Women are supposed to be pushed around and ridiculed and humiliated and if they speak up, they are crazy psychos. It's not really amusing at all. I should probably keep in mind that her father has this attitude because if she ever tries to tell him that she has experienced something inappropriate, he will most likely ridicule her.
When she digs her fingers into me, she does it very hard and it really hurts. So maybe her dad is being a lot rougher than I thought. She's never been aggressive or hurtful before.
It's up to me to set the precedent here. Maybe it's a bigger deal than I thought, now that I examine it out in the light.
Melly, I don't know how old your daughter is but she is obviously old enough to know when she is hurting someone. Does he do this to your daughter also? If he does, then she knows it hurts and she should not be doing it to you. If you have asked her repeatedly to stop and she doesn't then it is time to step up a little. Don't yell at me people but I am wondering if you reciprocated a couple of times with a poke, she just might get the message. Because this is bullying and not to be allowed. Sounds as if both her father and your AB get a thrill in abusing women and she is picking up the signs that is is ok and normal. Gee the very thought of a guy poking or squeezing someone to the point of hurt has really, really got my dander up here!
As for what happened to your daughter in the schoolyard, I was a teacher and she should not only have phoned parents but she also should have made much more of a punishment of it. That is NOT acceptable behavior and a child could be severely traumatized by it.
Maybe if you stop your daughter from doing it to you, she'll get the message that it isn't ok to hurt someone and stop her father from doing it to her as well. I'm not sure I'd hurt her back, more along lines of taking away privileges and establishing a hard line in the sand against such abusive behavior - calling it that because it is what it is. NO! - You are NOT allowed to abuse me anymore! Might teach her that she has the right to stand up for herself against anyone doing something to her she doesn't like.
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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
She's 10, deacon. 11 next month. I wonder if she is doing it to me because she's trying to test it out and see if it's acceptable, since it's happening to her?
Tonight, as she was going to bed, I put my arms up to hug her and she did it again- dug her fingers in hard to my ribs and laughed. It's a horrible shock. I got really angry; she knows I think it is unnacceptable but she keeps doing it anyway.
I couldn't hurt her back but I feel as though I want to establish a boundary around me...don't come near me unless you are going to treat me respectfully and kindly. If you hurt me then you will need to stay away. We have always been very close and cuddly so that would be a shock to her. Would that be hurtful? It feels right to me.
You're right, ilikemyheart. I need to show her that it's not OK to let people hurt and violate me. (her).
I look at things symbolically, too, and when I just read your title again, before reading the details, it hit me that perhaps your HP is poking at you... and the rest is for your interpretation
One of the things I've learned is to not dole out the reaction that people are expecting if I know they're looking for trouble. Ultimately NOT reacting with any emotion at all is what really puts the message across for me.
Your daughter at the moment seems to want attention - and unfortunately she's seeking it in a negative way. It'll probably get boring for her if the next time she does it, you don't yelp but instead after she does it, firmly grab her hand, get down to eye-level with her and say calmly and clearly. "No, honey. You do not do that to people. If you do it again, you will receive X punishment." (whatever punishment is suitable in your household. And then ask her "Do you understand me?" wait until you get a verbal yes and then if she does it again, then it's time for her to face the consequences. Great learning opportunity for her for sure.
But yeah, she seems to enjoy your current reactions. It'll likely stop if you don't give her what she's looking for. It'll probably just take some time getting her to understand it.
It's too bad her father behaves that way. It might be a bit more challenging, but if your ABF does the same thing to you, it's the same thing... quiet, neutral response. Calmly let him know you do not appreciate it and let him know the next time he does it, you're going to get up and leave the room.
Whenever I did this with my exAH, I always tried really REALLY hard to make sure to keep any drama out of it. Alcoholism wants drama so I only feed the disease if I run out of the room shouting and slamming doors.
she seems to think it's funny and for me, it really, really isn't. It makes me feel angry and actually kind of ill.
