The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
When I want to suggest somebody get a grip, get a life, grow up, etc, I've usually put myself into my playing god role. Although I'll suggest going to meetings, etc when they first come on the board, after that if I do have e/s/h to share or an Al-Anon tool and don't, but tell them to go to a meeting, etc, sometimes I'm afraid to let their story touch me and hopefully help heal me. I like to pretend I've got it altogether at those times when the truth is, I'm hurting and afraid to let that hurting out. But - that's me.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 14th of November 2013 10:17:22 PM
I'm trying to work an honest program so I thought I would share parts of myself to you, just to be honest really and to get some feedback. I love Al anon, I love the fellowship and its teaching me to be a better person, a more empathetic person, a kinder, more gentle person, but there is a part of me, (not sure if due to the effects of living with alcoholism or not) that finds it difficult to be sympathetic and understanding of someones situation. I lack tolerance at times and I can feel that I don't really belong here. I read some lovely reply's to posts that are filled with kindness and understanding and really I just want to say - go to meetings, work a program, get a grip!!! I know what your thinking. Harsh!!!
Sometimes I think that the gentle approach is useful and other times I think just tell it like it is. What I mean is I respond to straight to the point kind of feedback, the gentle stuff, not so much, you know, it kind of feeds into my whole victim mode type behaviour. Tell me to look at myself, that's probably the answer but can you relate at all? Have you ever felt like this or am I trying to control again?
I think one way to think about this that might be helpful comes straight from the rooms which is that we do not give advice. I think when we give advice, it CAN fall into the camps of gentle or harsh. If I give experience, strength, and hope it can ONLY be gentle because it is from my own experience and it's my honest sharing of what it's like to live with alcoholism.
I find that I want to be harsh when I am frustrated or scared by someone else's situation or I think they are being too stuck or repetitive, etc. and I think I see the TRUTH of it. Often this impulse happens to me when I don't have ES&H to share, but I still want to say SOMETHING. When I am in that zone, I do end up in advice land and it's not always pretty. But, if I follow the program's guidelines, I listen and do not give advice and there then isn't a chance to be harsh.
I can relate, and like Blue Cloud, I think it is when I am wanting to give advice instead of my experience. Sometimes even giving my experience feels like I am setting myself up as victim and boo-hoo to me! Sometimes I can see that I am feeling way too judgmental.... so of course my advice is necessary (sarcasm).
A lot of times, most times, I read but do not respond because I don't relate to it even though I do support the person writing.
Everyone that comes here are in different stages of recovery. Some are just coming here to see if there is hope. Some are in full recovery or like you and I are really in infancy but are not newbies. When you read the posts, think about them and where they are at. Were you there maybe a year ago...maybe two years ago. What was it like 4 years ago. When I first came I was a mess and I'm sure others thought.....just get a grip. I don't think that would have worked for me I'm sure. Everyone is going to do it at their own pace and we come to give and take the ESH, advice and encouragement to change.
Read the posts then think about what they are going through at that moment. Did you go through it....like enabling and not being able to just quit and somebody telling you just get with it and stop. For me...it took quite a long time to GET IT. I'm sure some of my posts are getting old but it takes practice, practice and more practice to finally get it and MIP and Al-anon gives me the ESH to continue to practice with love, support and kindness.
((( hugs ))) you will be OK.
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Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
To me this board is just like life. Everybody has their own personality and way of saying things. It all blends together and works. Don't worry - you're fine.
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"Just being there for someone can sometimes bring hope when all seems hopeless." - Dave G. Llewellyn
So I had parent/teacher interviews tonight. One is doing quite well academically, always has. She learns quickly and has required very little help from home. I have always questioned her teachers about why she never has homework and it never fails. She gets her work done in class. The other is having difficulties that I never encountered with the eldest and I am struggling to find other methods to help her learn. She is not a bad kid. Very artistic and such a gentle animal loving hard working little girl. She will learn differently and I need to learn how to help her. They both have the same mother and father and live in the same home. They are soooo different. The oldest you can not raise your voice you will get tears automatically. The other you have to raise your voice and give the tough discipline or you are screwed. I guess what I am trying to suggest is that we are all so different what works for one may or may not work for the other. I don't think we need to isolate ourselves anymore especially not here. I think as long as we say what we mean and mean what we say without saying it mean we can all continue to find comfort at some point through the message boards. Different ages, stages, gender and all corners of the earth. No voice is insignificant. Take what you like and leave the rest;)
Plus my mama always said that if you ain't got nothin nice to say then don't say nothin at all. (Love thumper from the Bambi movie)
I strive to be transparent and truthful...not always successful as I sometimes want to appear differently than I am at the time. I have times when I want to respond in the same way as you have posted. Often I don't respond, I will just "listen" as I do in meetings.
Together we help each other heal by being who we are as we are. I have to say there are times somebody posts and I am just amazed at how different folks coming on the board can say their piece and it all comes together in one big message of honesty, hope and healing. Only one person responding to another family member's post may be helpful - but several voices offering what they think will be of help seems to be like a puzzle being put together to create a beautiful picture. Nobody needs to share - they want to share. Seems healthy and very loving to me, too.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 15th of November 2013 09:15:38 AM
Thank goodness we are all different - sometimes I wish that I had someone in my life who talked straight from the hip and other times I need a few gentle strokes. Usually when I feel frustrated with someone else's situation it is telling me something about my own life - if I'm angry or frustrated it normally turns out to be with myself! I think your 'live, love, listen, speak' image says it all!
I read most of the thread and then stopped to do some reflection from earlier recovery. I understand my "human" condition and I understand putting some time in between what I perceive and how I respond to it. This morning I went to my old trusty ODAAT daily reader and read some of the pages on "Attitude" (my perception of things). The pages are all "noted", "Marked with inventory statements and conversations with HP" and one of the things that jumped out at me was at times the propensity for "relapse"...old thoughts, feelings and behaviors which never worked well for anyone and which from time to time want to rearise. Our discriptions of inventory most often contain the word honest. I appreciate this thread. It increases my awareness. ((((hugs))))
This week I missed a few of my daily readings. I usually read them in the morning and take a few moments to think them through and then it seems to set me up for the day. Not sticking to this allows they old negative thoughts to creep in and I tend to have a day where its my will, its what i want and I can act impulsively. I can recognize this as whenever I slack off in any area of my recovery then I loose my contact with my hp and the dis-ease comes in. Im only human and I need to give myself a break. I will continue to relapse and make progress and this is okay. I know its part of the learning process. I have decided that this weekend I will pull out my steps and my readers and work on my program. Thanks for listening and for the feedback. Have a nice weekend.x
When you read the posts, think about them and where they are at. Were you there maybe a year ago...maybe two years ago. What was it like 4 years ago. When I first came I was a mess and I'm sure others thought.....just get a grip. I don't think that would have worked for me I'm sure. Everyone is going to do it at their own pace and we come to give and take the ESH, advice and encouragement to change.
************** I agree with Cathy....when i see posts that maybe "trigger" me back to old memories, i have to remind me that "hey you were here once upon a time...instead of judging, why not be Grateful you are not in this life anymore"???
when i see it that way, i can get back on ESH mode
sometimes I am too up front...abrupt, ....shoot from the hip.....i tell it like it is, however, i do keep the focus on me, my experiences, MOST of the time.... i think my trigger areas are when children are involved and are helpless....it brings me back to when i was a kid and my mom had chances to leave, she had help, and she chose to stay with this monster and , of course, the agony living w/this kind of deviant caused her to drink to cope, to "escape" we kids didn't have that luxury of getting plastered into oblivion,....we had to LIVE this......but yea, i remember b4 alanon/acoa/coda how messed up i was and the dysfunctional life i led.......SO grateful that is not my life anymore........
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
I know what your saying Melly, I dont think I would tell anyone what to do or think, no one would appreciate that, especially us who have lived lifes filled with manipulation. However, I do think our thinking needs to be challenged and i think the whole program is written in a way that does challenge us. I mean I spent 20yrs of my life with a way of thinking that I truly believed was right. I was resentful, full of self pity, manipulative and I have came to realise through this program that these are coping mechanisms that we tend to develop in order to survive an alcoholic home.
To me this is just a fact and its not about blaming myself or anyone else for this thinking but it was hurting me to think this way so being challenged right from the start of my recovery helped shake me out of it. I think that everyone has their own time to be ready and I think thats where the open mind part comes in. If a post challenges your way of thinking even if its not comfortable its probably doing you good, well in my experience anyway.
If we can open ourselves up to the idea that we were not always victims of our partners alcoholism, we had our part to play and thats the only part we can change then for me thats when I began to mature and take responsibility for my own life. Taking responsibility has been a journey that I do want to share with others here. I feel I have a lot to give newcomers and I am sure I have helped people here and in my meetings.
Lots to think about. Thanks everyone.x
-- Edited by el-cee on Saturday 16th of November 2013 06:56:00 PM
This could be sort of off the mark...but I was thinking...isn't sharing ESH with others sort of part of the 12th step? And I am only at the beginning of step 4 for the first time so forgive me if I have it wrong; I'm no-where near the stage yet of feeling like I have anything useful to offer another person. But isn't it sort of as much for ourselves as it is for others, to share and uplift and encourage? Like learning by teaching?
So I am thinking, if I consider what I are going to say and ask myself "does it help ME to grow if I say this?" and then decide if it makes me feel good and reflects the positive things I have learned then I say it, and if it feeds into anger or frustration or negative feelings then I let it be and focus on finding my own centre again...People don't share because they want to frustrate you or expect you to solve their problems! I know I don't. I share because it's so healing to be able to speak honestly and be heard, supported and validated.
You have a nice weekend too!!
I dont think I have ever not encouraged someone. Neshema, the only person Im judging here is me!! in a step 4ish kind of way.
I can read a post and recognize myself in them really and in some level I am still a little angry that I didn't see myself clearer. When I read someones share and I see their denial or self pity it does have an affect on me, I can relate and its hard to accept that I have spent most of my adult life this way so yes it is for ourselves as well as others.
I agree with what you said Melly, about sharing 'because its healing to be able to speak honestly and be heard' That is exactly what I have done here with this post. I have taken the risk to be honest, that too is part of the program.
I like posts that challenge our thinking, my thinking. When we live with an A our thinking becomes flawed, we become unreasonable, I like to be honest about that. My thinking is still definitely flawed that's why I'm in my program.
At my first meeting an old timer said to me after just meeting me 'the pity party is over' She saw my self pity and that was really helpful for me. I got it, whereas if she had said 'oh you poor thing....' it would not have had the same impact. That kind of straight talking motivated me to make real changes in my life. I would hope there is a place for all of us in this fellowship, even if our interpretation of esh differs.x
I liked that you shared how you felt here and it prompted me to think about how I feel about the dynamics of posting on this board and how it makes me feel to reply to another person.
But I think it is true that not everyone responds to the same stuff. You like to be told things straight. I really don't. I like to come to my own conclusions based on the gentle wisdom I have been afforded! So, we are different.
I grew up with an EXTREMELY authoritative parent and I get very defensive when I feel that someone is telling me what to do or think. I don't feel good about realising something unless I come to understand it on my own terms, by being given the knowledge and tools to work it out on my own. Of course it is easier to tell me...the sky is blue...but I prefer to be given a paintbox and some paper and figure it out for myself...then I feel like I have truly understood it. Does that make sense?
I like all the responses and do agree with you LC . We are all different and have different styles. I am so accustomed to the no cross talk requirement at face to face meetings , that I try to make sure that my share offers program tools and my own personal experience
I do believe that we all grow when we post and respond
I think your 'live, love, listen, speak' image says it all!
