Every accomplishment starts with the decision to try.

Iwantthingsback · Senior Member

Mean drunks

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

Pinkchip (((((hugs)))))

I'd like to add to the other comments - you've helped me and my understanding of this disease so much and I am truly grateful to you for sharing your experience on these pages. Especially today. I'm really sorry that you and the others here have had to deal with this awful rubbish.

I'm the same as the other posters here - having a really tough time letting go of the hurtful words and insults - some of them date back to before AH was drinking - just so dismissive and undermining. I know that they come from a place of low self esteem (his and now mine) but I wish that they would stay away. Even though I know in my head that they are not valid the words pop back into my head so unexpectedly and then I feel my stomach tense up and my shoulders sag. I'm getting a bit tired of having to pull myself up by my bootstraps! AH and I are still together and I find that the memories loom up and get in the way whenever I feel like dropping my guard. Perhaps that is actually useful???? I just don't know anymore. Note to self - remember to create some more good memories

-- Edited by milkwood on Wednesday 6th of November 2013 12:15:33 PM

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Some of the other posts got me thinking. I know that in the end there is really only 1 type of drunk even though we attach other labels to them. Personally, I was an overdramatic, crying sloppy drunk (and goofy and fun I guess on the way up to getting to that point).

My ex-A however, was goofy and fun on the way up too but then he became the typical "mean drunk." I am hearing this again and again in other posts but I swear, for me, it was like I could almost see a switch go off from nice to mean. I would literally be sitting there doing nothing and mean comments and what not would come my way out nowhere. Like I can't make it on my own. My mom is a "b###h. I am lazy. When am I going to get a better job (that was a doozy since he hardly ever had a job but had somehow rationalized that he was always trying so hard to get better jobs and I wasn't. Meanwhile - I was the one who just kept my job the whole time). What really hurt was when he said mean things that had elements of truth in them. It's kind of amusing how when I made up my mind to leave, he became a pitiful crying mess and was begging me not to go....no mean drunk then after I refused to be the verbal punching bag.

Sometimes I have a hard time identifying with that type of drunk because I was not that way but I know it's the common model for the male alcoholic....the angry drunk. It was as if all the bully, bad childhood, stress from not being able to achieve things in life was my fault while in reality the fact that he had those problems and also that he couldn't cope with his past was mostly due to the one thing that was so obviously making it all worse. His drinking.

So for those of you dealing with "a mean drunk" ....my sympathies cuz I know what it's like. It sucks.

Iwantthingsback · Senior Member

Oh it is horrible huh. When mine did allt he time when he would drink and HOLY moly! Same thing, like a switch. I mean nonstop and the words... meanest things I have ever heard in my life.

I was in (yrs ago gees, age 18- 20, I am 43 now) a very mental and physical abusive relationship Although the physical was bad (I pray for all going through this and if you are there is help and get out of it if you can) BUT the mental stayed with me more! AND the crap my A has said to be over the yrs I still, to this day struggle and it hurts! I look at him some days still and think did he mean what he said? How do I know if he did? If he really did I need to be packing up and leaving. So I feel your pain.

Ya, he says he didnt mean it, heck he doesnt even remember half of it he explained why he thinks he said those things blahh blahh he doesnt know. And that saying in my head You tell the truth when drink - we have all heard this before.... that remains with me.

It is a shame The mean drunk and the words just wont go away in your head (still working on this in therapy). I have learned to let go of a lot, so I am making head way, but it will take time........... My heart truly goes out to you! And I can relate 100%

Feel free to PM on this one sweetie :)

Iwantthingsback · Senior Member

And I know this part as well.. the ones with truth to them.. OUCH! I have scares from being on steroids in the past, that caused bad acne and cysts. They are not on my face thank goodness, but my chest, back, arms all over I have pock scares. They are not horrible, but it has always bothered me and limits what I will wear, and any scare on the body mentally bothers someone.

Now sober, it is like this baby I love you, those dont bother me, you are beautiful, and he kisses them, you know. accepting me as me. as it should be right. And I know they dont bother him and I make them out to be worse than they probably are.. BUT here is how it plays out drunk: Your scares are gross, I hate them, they make me sick, I dont know how I can even have sex with you!!! ETC.. HIT right below the belt in area I am most sensitive in! That right there is the disease!!! I dont understand why, he says he would never say those things (yet he did), but proof of what this sickness can make the sick one say and do.

K I am done LOL So try to keep in mind it is the disease talking not him if you can.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Mine was mean whether he drank or not. He added a punch to his words. Strange to me is that the fighter in me sat back and took it as if a marriage vow and license rendered me helpless to do much but take it until I saw that he would or could hurt my children. I don't know where I got it in my head that I needed to stay with somebody as sick as he was, but I did. I'm just glad that my HP had other plans for my life and gave me what I needed to make changes that I could literally live with.

Milehi-tlc · Member

I have really struggled with this as well. Trying to know what part of verbal abuse is attributable to drinking versus just abuse. I've heard different opinions. Some say abuse is abuse and separate from the disease of drinking. I am in the process of divorce after 30 year marriage. My husband was dry for the middle 20 some years of our marriage and no verbal or emotional abuse to speak of. Then slowly but surely the same horrible behaviors started up again. Little did I know that he had secretly started drinking again and hiding it from me.

The baffling part is that he will be abusive now even when not drunk. I guess part do the "stinkin thinkin" that goes with the disease???

Of course he did initiate the divorce so maybe he needs to treat me like he does to get through the emotional part and probably feeling some guilt as well.

whatever, but I too will never unhear the things said. And sadly, I probably would have put up with it forever if not for my HP taking it out of my hands. I should be happy that it's coming to an end.

Melly1248 · ~*Service Worker*~

I'll tell you what, hearing others share about this behaviour and realising that it's common drunk behaviour has made it sooooo much less powerful and hurtful. If anything I think the mean-ness is self-destructive; when I see that VERY real switch flip and he changes from "goofy" to nasty, he also starts a host of other self-destructive and stupid stuff. I think part of that "switch flip" is a sudden desire to destroy everything, including anyone close to him.
But it isn't about me, or, as IWTB said, about him being "honest" because he is drunk- I used to think that too. Its all part of his own hell and has nothing to do with me.
I'm so grateful to all of you for helping me see that

Iwantthingsback · Senior Member

XOXOXOXOXO

smile

bud · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you for posting. Good validation- this is such a baffling disease! My exAH was extremely multi-talented and successful; kind and generous that gave way to a very mean and sadistic spirit. When I stopped engaging, he came after me- one of the many reasons why I'm here is to learn how to pry myself away.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

My x also came after me when I stopped engaging. The disease in him used my love for my children against me. I had to learn to let go and let God many, many times in relationship to the baffling, cunning and powerful disease and the ways it tried to regain my compliance with its systemic dysfunction.

Cathyinaz · ~*Service Worker*~

My son is like.... He is funny and goofy coming up but when it hits he comes, crying, sad, wanting hugs and love and poor me....until he falls hurts himself and passes out. Oh and the drama..........

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Note to PC: I know this is your thread. I have missed saying anything to you about your experience! You did such a good job of writing something I could relate to. This is what I want to say to you! I am glad you sobered up and stayed in program. I'm glad you left that "going nowhere but down relationship." I am glad you have used your experiences and your program work to help us. I am glad you are getting married to a man who treats you right! You represent hope for many of us, PC, and for many of our loved ones, too. (((PC)))

likemyheart · ~*Service Worker*~

My perceptions is that a lot of people grow up being hurt - and as the saying goes, hurt people, hurt (other) people - like passing the pain on takes it away from them. Funny though, I grew up in a hurtful home but I am the opposite, I don't want to hurt anyone, I go out of my way to not say things that maybe should be said because it isn't nice and I don't want to hurt anyone - I don't want to cause anyone to feel as bad as I felt. Hmmm, maybe that's what makes me prone to co-dependence/enabling. Maybe hurt children become either hurters or hurtees. (spell check doesn't like the work hurtee!) I do know that only with a lot of work on the inner me, resolving the painful and shameful issues and getting to the core is the only way to get out of the box my childhood put me into.

Iwantthingsback · Senior Member

Well said grateful - pinkchip - tho I have never said it... has helped me lots, this one and other posts! Insight and the wisdom from someone who is sober helps sooooo much. So I too thank you!

ClearTheFog · Senior Member

I'm really having a hard time with this myself, and I believe I'm finally in the process of extricating myself from the (non-alcoholic) relationship, purely because of verbal meanness (from a teetotaller, even). In my case it's not underhanded, below the belt insults, it's daily, hourly picking, like "Why didn't you do so-and-so", or "I wish you hadn't done that". Or "If I had only known you were going to do so-and-so, I would have done so-and-so". It's crazy-making. It happens whenever I talk to him either on the phone or in person. I have endured this for 10 years now. I have been very sick.

I am aware that this hell he is in stems from his massive amounts of pain and fear (and possible mental illness), and if I were a saint I'd be able to react to these calls for love, with patience and love. But this morning I actually caught myself thinking a classic codependent line: "If only I were more patient with him, perhaps the relationship could survive?". Then I caught myself and realized that sure, I could work on my own patience for the good of life in general, and my own personal progress, but whether the relationship fails or not, is not dependent upon my patience at this point.

As somebody said on another thread today, do I continue to allow myself to be dishonored in this way? The answer is no. Wish me luck. I think I'm about to finally cut bait.

Sorry it's not totally on topic with 'mean drunk'. Just 'mean'. And thank you so much for bringing it up.

Iwantthingsback · Senior Member

Remember the kid saying way back in the day??? (Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me). Why cant we say that and feel that as adults? Because that is not a true statement. But it is funny, I do think that silly riddle here and there.

FACT: Words hit harder than a fist and cut deeper than a knife, and leave a (sad to say) permanent scar plain and simple. But why, they are only words? They are only words? And we think alcoholism is baffling.

I swear, if I EVER find a way to let it go, I mean really let the words go, where they dont pop up in my head and they dont hurt and I have mastered this, I will make it a point to help others do the same! So stay tuned I am not giving up on it yet, I will pass on my knowledge when I get there. :) Been working on it for 20 yrs, have come a long way, and will work on it another 20 if I have to. XOXOXX to all of you!

Milehi-tlc · Member

Pink chip thank you so much for posting this today!!!! It feels like a huge breakthrough. Personally, I dealt with the verbal and emotional issue for probably the last 7 or 8 years of my life. Without question it was the most painful and stressful time in my life. I honestly thought I was going crazy. Not just verbal abuse but withholding, walking away to punish me and then not speaking to me for days, weeks and sometimes months at a time. Part of this dysfunction is you actually start believing all the crap that is directed ya you.

The day I discovered ah was drinking again, I promptly got to meetings where all of the insanity made sense. I will say tho that working the program and detaching is what I felt made the situation even worse. Way worse!!!!!! Because I realized I was no longer feeding the disease. Mine and his.

Today I'm in a painful place trying to live without the insanity and abuse. Part of the disease is that initially you miss the very behaviors that are so very unhealthy. I started by having my eyes opened, and I am so very very grateful for my alanon family and all the posters here. Practice not perfection and ODAT.

Jill · ~*Service Worker*~

PC thank you for this. As I read through all the responses, only NOW do I realize "insidious mean-ness" (I just made that up). Oh I know the blatantly mean drunk. I just realized the damage my ex tried on me and now I see my part in it. When he left, he assured me I am unlovable. I nurtured weeded and watered that seed for a l-o-n-g time. Whenever I turned around, there was the unlovable me. ugh
He told it to me in a way like I'm going to save you some grief here, so don't even try to have someone in your life. Just find a hobby and don't expect anything more. At first I rejected it. But as time went on and it felt as if nobody loved me, I began to believe and then embrace it. Double-ugh! I had evidence to the contrary in every aspect of my life.
I really thank Al-Anon for looking clearly at my assumptions. Step work, a sponsor and the growing courage to think clearly. This is SO MUCH BETTER.

mm830 · Senior Member

This is one of the most painful parts of the disease, the verbal beatings.

Raven Juniper · Senior Member

I agree with all of you on here, and while both the physical and verbal/mental abuse was horrible, the hateful words are what I hear in my mind over and over...I believed the awful things that were said to me, especially because I already despised myself and had no self esteem, so the insults and abuse just settled right into my own self-inflicted emotional scars. The healing may take the rest of my life, but AlAnon is getting me there in the "invisible rowboat." (A story in Codependent No More in the chapter about the 12 step program) I'm all about ODAT ;)

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Every accomplishment starts with the decision to try.

Every accomplishment starts with the decision to try.

Every accomplishment starts with the decision to try.

Every accomplishment starts with the decision to try.

Every accomplishment starts with the decision to try.

Every accomplishment starts with the decision to try.