The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
It has been a while since I have been on here. A couple of years actually. I'm still fighting the good fight. My ABF has been using for too long. Finally I gave him the ultimatum back in the beginning of July, and told him it's rehab or your out. So after 4weeks of him "deciding" he finally went to a detox center. It was only for 7 days, which was against the "agreement" but at the time I was just happy that he made that effort to change and take back his life. He was clean for roughly one month. He was a different person, a new man, different but the same. Well I found out recently that he relapsed and needless to say, here we go again. It feels like a tease and it hurts worse this time. This was his first time getting clean since we have been together.
In anycase, now that he is back at it. And the lies are still thrown in my face. How do I say no again? I can't seem to put my foot down and throw out some boundaries, because honestly, I am afraid that it won't work, and well, that will be that. He is still going to meetings, but not everyday, and the days he doesn't go of course he is high. I am not ready to kick him out because I don't think it will help our situation.
I'm just not sure what to do or how to feel. Again.
I immerse myself in reading about codependency, I am going to therapy, I don't know what else to do.
Hi. Welcome back to MIP. Although you've been here before, I do re-recommend face to face Al-Anon meetings, on-line meetings, and getting Conference Approved Literature for Al-Anon members. A formal program of recovery for us helps us establish boundaries and stick with them. Deciding what we can and can't live and doing what we can to make sure we live the way we know is best for us - whether our loved one gets sober or not helps us set boundaries we can stick to in my experience. Keep coming back.
For me, I said No and Out because it was the best for me. There was not "we", just "me". His life, his recovery, his relapses were no longer in the space. It was simply, I am done, you move. Then what he chose to do with his life was completely up to him. There was no discussion, no reminding him of his disease, my hurts, blah blah. I stayed with my recovery for me, not us. My healing skyrocketed from that point. I could not have done it without al anon and a healthy support system. Take charge of your life, sweetie.
It's not going to work until you're absolutely ready to follow through with your consequences.
I learned in Al-Anon to not make ultimatums unless I was 100% prepared to follow through if that boundary was broke.
It eventually came down to a point where I stopped making any ultimatums at all and I just did what I quietly promised myself what I would do if the behavior happened again.
It wasn't worth it for me to tell the A "no" and then let him trample my boundaries over and over again and again. He learned that if I said "no" then he'd still get to do what he wanted regardless. It was when I followed through and stuck to my boundaries when he learned he couldn't keep getting away with trampling my boundaries.
It's not easy. A's are masters of manipulation. Give them an inch they'll take a mile. They know how to get what they want and will push and push and push until they wear you down at last. Or they try to find imaginary loopholes in your boundaries and that sort of thing.
It helped me to sit down with my sponsor and think out consequences to my boundaries and really ask myself and be HONEST with myself if I would be willing to follow through or not.
It was helpful for me to start with little things. If he got verbally abusive to me, I'd no longer take the bait and fight with him. I'd walk out of the room or throw him off by saying "Oh, I hear you." and leave it at that. He'd try and push me into a fight even with those measures and I'd refuse to take the bait. That's one small sample of my sticking to my boundaries. I didn't even tell him "if you talk to me like that again I'm going to walk out of the room." I just did it.
If you aren't already, keep getting to Al-Anon meetings. I'm not sure about CODA meetings, but Al-Anon doesn't just touch on adjusting our co-dependent behaviors - it touches on adjusting those behaviors while living with an alcoholic.
Please reach out and attend face to face meetings, grab a sponsor and start working the steps, come to MIP's meetings online, and learn all that you can about the disease and how it affects every one with whom it comes into contact. To be effective, boundaries must have consequences that we can carry out. Saying "no" is a boundary and requires no further explanation. This takes practice!
Ultimatums rarely work because the motivation and drive to work a program usually needs to come from within.
We didn't cause it, can't control it, and can't cure it. Positive change comes when we work on ourselves and take care of ourselves, regardless what is happening or not happening with the A.
Alanon shows me how to get out of my own way, strengthen my relationship with my HP and enjoy life. I have learned that my exAH has his own HP to watch over him.
I just wanted to welcome you back to MIP. You've gotten some great suggestions already. I hope you'll keep posting here and get a clearer sense of what you want. You can take your time to be sure of what you really want .... you know, act instead of react. Hugs! TT
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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
Welcome faith84,
in my case saying 'NO', came as a consequence of what alcohol does to people, me included. my A and I lived together for short time, he had started consuming again, becoming more anxious again, more lies, more manipulation again, where we had before that been for a very short time at a nice spot, filled with peace, hope and understanding. He chose otherwise then, and I wasn't part of that choice. He decided on his own to move out again. and that for me was a consequential NO.... it became clear for me then that I couldn't go on, and that maybe it was good this rollercoaster life came to an end. He also hit me (yes, i say that at the end, almost casual , i noticed just now....) and this is actually the point of no return, in a blaming game and panic attack , where I wish I wouldn't have gone with him.....I wish I had said NO earlier to be honest. Got to forgive myself for that... and that's actually hard work.
Saying No is difficult, i agree. for me it brings a lot of that feeling of being too selfish, not understanding enough, not compassionate...poor him---feeling. It's horrible ... it can tear you apart. At the same time saying No, came with a whole big ' quiet peace time', which gives me time to focus on me again, look at where I am not doing so well, and working on that....which has not been possible while the A was around.
and yes, today he wants me back, he wants to hear the words ' i love you' from me....and inside, I know I always did...I just can't say it anymore, because it is not the most important thing anymore. I am.for me. right now. No to him is YES to you.... and believe me, I am a big co-dependent. and I find it very hard to leave somebody standing there when he is struggling and feeling lonely. But when I learned to listen closer, I too was struggling and feeling lonely. so shouldn't I be rescuing myself first before I may be able to be there for somebody else.
He has to fight his fight, I have my own....and I need time. and in the end, to be true, I am not responsible for anybody's feelings. He has choices, so do I. YES for Me-time, because I want to be healthy. i didn't feel healthy when he was living his lies, blaming, anger-revenge game, belittling me, ....it was always all about him, in fear, anxiety and even arrogance.
please keep coming back...and be gentle with yourself.
Welcome back Faith. The responses you have received with their suggestions I nod to because I've done many of them. I've also done some very simple training with the word "No". I had to learn first that this two letter word is a complete sentence!! Al-Anon rocket science. I also learned that how I say it also is part of the sentence...comes from my body language and like Aloha said..."If I didn't mean it...don't say it" I stay away from frustration and low self esteem that way. My sponsor worked with me on "No...no...NO...NO!!!" He had me look in the mirror when I practiced so that I could see what my alcoholic/addict wife was seeing when I said that whole sentence cause each way I say it contains another message.
Good luck...would like to here how it comes out for you. ((((hugs))))
Wow everyone thank you so much for your responses and suggestions. They are all great. Aloha, I think you've hit the nail right on the head for me. I rarely follow through because I am afraid of the consequenses. For myself and for him and my children. I am hanging on by a string and do plan to attend my first actual meeting tomorrow. I know that I need it. I know that right now I am not ready to send him out of my life. But I am ready and needing a change on a desperate level. Thank you all for your responses and I will think them all through thoroughly.
I too was afraid of the consequences. I didn't want to lose him or make his drinking worse. I know now I my heart saying NO didn't hurt him or me. It's giving me more peace and courage to move forward in my recovery and giving him respect he can do it on his own if he wants it bad enough.
I can tell him I love him, he is in my life.....but I can also detach with love and kindness.
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Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
Hi. Welcome back to MIP. Although you've been here before, I do re-recommend face to face Al-Anon meetings, on-line meetings, and getting Conference Approved Literature for Al-Anon members. A formal program of recovery for us helps us establish boundaries and stick with them. Deciding what we can and can't live and doing what we can to make sure we live the way we know is best for us - whether our loved one gets sober or not helps us set boundaries we can stick to in my experience. Keep coming back.
Can't add much to this except when you say "if you do such and such, I will do so and so." or in our case..."use and U R gone" If I don't "stand" to my boundary, in other words, say this or that and DONT follow through, they don't take me seriously.....you either back up boundaries or not...and they will take you as seriously as you take yourself seriously
an active user, not in recovery, there is not much of a chance of making it.....as Grateful said above....I would read her post again and do what it suggests.....I wold work the steps, big time and go back to discover me, perhaps for the first time, and figure out WHY I think I can't do any better than a non recovering druggie b/c U CAN and you DESERVE to have better...we ALL do..that is why we are here working our tails off with the meetings, steps, sponsor work, literature and slogan practice.....program changed my life....
I no longer even will talk to an active alkie or druggie.......i have zero interest in folks who are active addicts.....I am better off alone....I URGE you to work a diligent and serious program...Nothing changes if nothing changes and you can only change you....
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Neshema2, yes he is currently an active user who has daily battles with his sobriety. When he went to detox several weeks back it was the first time he had ever sought out help. I knew it wouldn't happen overnight and that there was a good chance that he would relapse and I made the decision to learn to cope with the problem as opposed to eliminating the problem. And EVERYONE has a chance at making it out of this alive. Some just don't see that chance until it is too late. So no, I am not giving up on him, and not on myself either.
I thought that Al Anon was not supposed to give advice on whether or not to leave their addict. This is why I stopped going to these forums before because it became "this is what you should do with your addict", mostly being, there is no hope and leave them. I could post this elaborate story on my life's details and how I got here with my Addict in my life but I won't bore you all.
I have made the choice to stay with him for the time being, until perhaps I just can't take it anymore. Or hopefully, until things change. I am here because I do need to learn how to take care of myself and not him. He is a big boy and can do that alone. I am trying to detach but I am not willing to leave him because he has an addiction problem.
