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Post Info TOPIC: ODAT page 187


~*Service Worker*~

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ODAT page 187


An AA speaker at an Al-anon meeting gave the members this unusual insight from the other side of the fence:

The non-alcoholic in the family doesn't seem to realize that the alcoholic is in a terribly vulnerable position. He must be constantly on guard, because he knows. deep down inside, how much trouble he

is bringing to the family. He knows he is wide open to criticism.

But did it ever occur to you that your tantrums and harsh words are like whipping a sick dog? Remember, he's lashing himself-all the time. If you apply more lashes, you're inviting him to transfer some of his guilt to you.

This can keep him from reaching his "bottom" and realizing how much he needs help to find sobriety.

Today's Reminder:

I will try to understand how desperately the alcoholic suffers from guilt. I will not yield to the impulse to kick him when he is down. We both suffer in different ways from the alcoholism. I, who have God's gift of

sobriety, must be the one to realize his dissatisfaction with himself, no matter how defiant and defensive he may appear.

" If I were unfortunate enough to be and alcoholic, how would I hope to be treated by

   the person I live with? The Golden Rule is a useful tool in all our personal relationships."



-- Edited by Cathyinaz on Tuesday 3rd of September 2013 03:17:42 PM

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Thanks for the reminder, Cathy. For me, my X woke me up to the fact I needed help. My son helped me learn to temper my tone. Glad you found this reading. If it gives you comfort, helps you continue the progress you have been making, and also gives you a heads up warning if you need one when it comes to relating with your son, great! It helped me to read it, too. (((C)))



-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 3rd of September 2013 02:35:25 PM

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Thanks Cathy!!  Good reminder!!

 



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Sweet Stanley


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thanks Cathy, unless a person  is a scumbag beater or cheater or child offender  (ALL of which the booze didnt' cause but were already part of the personality)  I have no probs. treating them with some compassion

When it gets unsafe and dangerous, that is a different story

My A brother's are nice guys...not dangerous to anyone...not a threat to children or other innocents, so I treat them w/compassion....

Yesterday's phone convo w/A brother, I said nothing much...Listened and let him talk...he knows it was his fault getting arrested, losing license...I wasn't going to kick him when hes down......He is in court, sometime today....I wll listen to his "update" and say nothing....he is down on himself...why beat him down further????? 

So how are ya feeling today????  sending you peaceful energy  :)



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Beautiful, Cathy, I could weep.



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Paula



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Yes, I agree with most of it, not all of it.

We shouldnt be beating up on anybody verbally alcoholic or not.

I find that alcoholics give themselves a big rope . If I am powerless over their drinking. I am powerless over preventing them from hitting their bottom.

Anything I do wrong or right is for my growth and my peace. An Alcoholic can take years to hit their many bottoms. Its not as simple as all that.

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Bettina


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When my son was first arrested many years ago, the pain was so deep I didn't know what to do with it. I bought a bright red drum set, called a guy to see if he'd teach me, and decided I'd make music with my pain. The guy was about 30 years younger than me and was happy to take on somebody my age willing to learn. Unfortunately, I learned a few routines and he left to go back to his college, but those few routines were enough to help me do something with my feelings that was productive rather than just sit on them. The red drum set now just sits in my basement drawing dust - a reminder to me that when things get tough - I can always make music with the pain.  Interestingly enough, my instructor's first name was the same as my son's. 



-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 3rd of September 2013 08:49:40 PM

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Cathy ... I wish I wouldve read this before !!!!!!!!!

..... but I will look from the other side of the fence from now on...

Thx for posting

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Thanks for this Cathy. Food for thought.

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Our alcoholic daughter has said the same thing to us many, many times. But as a mother, it's just unbearable to watch your child plunge deeper into the abyss. I'll never understand the "why" of her continued course, just have to respect the present situation.no

Stay Strong. Yours in support and prayers.......

 



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Mahalo Cathy...that page was part of the journey for me also.  It helped me to understand that alcoholic anxiety, remorse, guilt, shame and others was also an indication of being "under the influence" of alcoholism.  It kept me from "going mad" by default when I could feel nothing else.  I use to read that page and leave it angrily with the thought "So what about me"?!!  "What about my feelings"?!! and then the solution to my question was the room and my sponsor who taught me that this disease is an "our disease" I affects everyone it comes into contact with and never positively.  "We become as sick or sicker than the alcoholic..." is part of the definition of alcoholism that we use to read before each meeting...and I came to understand "everyone is touched...everyone needs empathy and compassion" we get that compassion and empathy and understanding from those who have walked this path before us.  We will not ever get it as we would want to get it from the alcoholic.  It just is.  

We love each other more than anyone else ever has...so be it.  It works when you work it.   (((((hugs))))) smile



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I can't say " What about me" "What about my feelings". I'm the one that continues to let it happen. I think it's because he's my son not a spouse.

All I can say I'm pretty sick right now... I hurt inside.




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 Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth

Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.

 


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Cathy: As a Mom, I don't think hurting inside is being sick. You are his Mom. You don't know the outcome. It is more than difficult to watch our kids suffer and not intervene. It is exquisitely painful because everything in us says we should move in - help - save them - rescue them and we have to say no to all of that.

Feelings are part of being alive and being healthy as a human being. It is what we do with our feelings that matter. It is whether or not we allow our feelings to run us as in I feel bad, therefore, I'm going to drink, hit somebody, get into bed and not get up or I feel good about this person I just met and they are homeless, so I'm going to let them live in my house rent free starting today.

It is true that as we progress, we are not caught up in sadness, fear, anger as much as we were when we first entered recovery because our coping skills change and also what was going on in our lives when we first entered the program that got us there in the first places changes. But, feeling what you are feeling right now as his Mom and as a person who has never been through this experience EVER is what you are feeling and there is no sick or well to it. We are feeling people as well as thinking. You aren't sick right now. You are a grieving Mother who is having a very hard time wrestling with all of this. I'm not saying let go of your program work. I am saying it is okay to feel what you are feeling and none of what you are feeling points to being anything but sick at heart to me who has gone through this as a Mom, too.

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Thank you grateful2b for your continued support. You are right in what you say and I think I'm grieving in a way.

I'm not going to do what I have done in the past and take control for instant gratification...something I would have done in the past. I will get past this part and move on one day at a time.

I usually can bounce back fairly quickly but this time my feelings are taking a tole on me..

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 Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth

Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.

 


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Hi Cathy This was an eye opening page for me too. I have worked hard to let go of anger and resentment and treat my AH with compassion. My compassion now takes the form of listening but not judging, not engaging when I feel uncomfortable, and generally remindimg myself that he is sick. Meetings and sharing with program friends help. I look back at how nasty I was to my husband when he was drinking. Yes, he was also nasty to me, so at the time I felt my reaction, yelling, criticizing, was justified. Now I can detach and let him sit with his own guilt and disappontment. I am so much healthier, and I am seeing positive changes in him too. Someone told me once that recovery is hard work. At the time i thought that meant hard work for the A, but now I understand how hard it is for the family too. Son or husband, it doesnt matter. We love them and want them well. Keep up your good work. Hugs. Paris

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Thank you, for sharing.

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Sister when the alcoholic tells you to cut him loose, you cut him loose and let him fly...or drop or however he moves on and away.  It is how we learn to stand up, stand up steady, stand up steady and take that first step and then the next and then the next.   My Mom had to do that and she had to watch and hear the consequences of my bad choices and good choices and after she let go I loved that she never told me "I told you so" when I screwed up.  I loved it because I was free to own my life and work it out  and in the end I had the miraculous pleasure handed to me by my Higher Power to be the counselor...one important time...for my mother and step father as a married couple with problems.   You can think and feel that we are weak and that we need you and then ...we don't.  We know how to fall and skin our knees and bump out chins and end up in jail and still stand up.  You know how to also cause in the end there are only two differences between you and he...gender and age.  That is another deep study (I took it and worked it) and maybe for another time.  This time he has told you to let go...go about your business...he'll return when he is done.  

Take yourself out of his picture and get back inside your own frame.  Don't ever tell him "I told you so"  He might come home with things you need to hear yourself.   (((((hugs))))) smile



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i'm confused, Bettina about what part of the ODAT reading you dont agree with. Clarify? i dont always understand comments when i dont recognize idioms or slang or abbreviations.



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