The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I bought the book Breathing Under water for my Kindle. I am almost finished with it But one part surprised me....sort of disappointed me. I'd love your take on it since you did an online course on it.
In the chapter on step 11- "no wonder we largely descended into mere civil religion and cultural Catholicism, with so many passive members. AA would call this enabling unhealthy codependency, and there are special meetings for such a sickness--for those who foster it, allow it, and profit from it. It is called Alanon.
That jumped out at me a somebody who does not understand what alanon really is all about. It seems to shed a very negative light on a very positive and uplifting group.
Any comments? Maybe I am taking it personally...I do that a lot.
Just to add a little to this thread: It was my understanding when I first read the post about breathing under water that PP's intent was to share a quote with us that she liked, credit the course where she saw the quote, and share a little about her reflection on the quote. I didn't get the idea that any religion or book was being promoted with her thread. I often appreciate quotes that are shared and not all are authors with an Al-Anon background. I also have seen some quotes shared on the board that I don't appreciate and yet note that others do.
I don't think someone sharing their personal faith is pushing religion on me. I do think it lets me know them a little better and I do appreciate that knowledge when sharing my own E/S/H. Another person's HP may not be one I'd want to embrace but since this is a spiritual program, I don't think there is any healthy way to leave out a person's HP as they share some of their E/S/H. My faith formation is part of who I am and I believe that is true for others, too. For me, it is one thing for someone to share what is meaningful for them and helps make them tick. It's another when someone shares what is meaningful for them and wants me to accept their faith journey or spiritual journey and insists I must think and feel the way they do, too.
I want to accept people where they are in this spiritual program and for me that includes allowing each person room to share their experience of HP and what is meaningful for them as they work their steps, share quotes, express what has been helpful to them even though I might not always be comfortable with their differences unless there is insistence I take on those differences. I have seldom, if ever, experienced that insistence on this board since joining MIP. I think that is pretty remarkable given all the different persons sharing this journey together.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 22nd of August 2013 07:15:48 PM
-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 22nd of August 2013 07:23:58 PM
Well Afglin, not all you read is true, just because its printed, its one person's perspective.
Have you been to Alanon face to face meetings? Do you find it true?
Alanon is a spiritual program and finding your HP is encouraged, some already have a HP and it is connected to a religion, Catholic, Born again. I am neither and I do not like it when people start to push their religion on me. . So we have a wide spectrum of people with their definition of what that HP is.
It also depends on the group you are with also, I have been with Alanon groups that were too religious for my taste. So I found a group of my liking.
Alanon specifically states that no religion should be discussed or promoted. I'm sure that Alanon cannot police to rule out religious discussion and I'm sure it may have gone on. I know that people use the word GOD a lot, which in california Alanon, they refer to My GOD or God of my understanding.
That is the danger of organizations, when people do not adhere to the principles or doctrine written for the good of the philosophy.
From what you quoted from the book you just read. I don't agree. I have never found Alanon to be Catholic in its beliefs, being an X Catholic I would have been sensitive to it.
I have never heard of this book breathing under water, was it informative or did you like it. You know what Alanon says, take what you like and leave the rest.
Thanks for your reply Bettina. Yes. I got to f2f alanon every Monday night. I have been going for over 20 years. Last week PP or Paula posted that she had just finished the book Breathing Under Water: Spirituality in the 12 Steps. It sounded good to me so I bought it for my Kindle. It is written from the AA perspective by a Catholic Priest. I happen to be Catholic, and it read a lot like a religious book that bounced back and forth between AA 12 steps and Bible references. That paragraph sort of made me angry that alanon was described that way. I was hoping Paula had an insight t since she had taken it as an online course.
I don't find alanon to be for people who foster codependency, allow it or profit from it at all. I find alanon to be far from that. Perhaps many in the meetings are also codependent but the alanon meetings helps us move past that and learn healthier, happier ways to live.
I read about it here so I was assuming it was alanon. It wasn't It didn't "promote" a religion. Instead it gave Bible references to support the 12 steps and it talked a lot about spirituality.
ALanon and AA are not religious programs. They are spiritual and there is a difference.
I would not recommend the book to an alanon. It's more for AA in my opinion. But I had already paid $9 for it when I realized that so I read it. The one thing I really liked was the reflection questions in the back. They were about making amends, spiritual awakenings, and other things related to the steps. Those few pages of reflection questions don't make it worth $9.
Afglin, I understand your confusion and want to give it a thoughtful response when I have a few more minutes to respond than I currently have. As Bettina indicated, this was written from one perspective, and my response will be from my perspective. Knowing this gentleman's work, and he does not promote any religion, he loves the 12 steps, AA and Al Anon and believes us to be the lucky ones, as opposed to those that hide behind "their" religions or "non religions". I also want to be clear that I am not promoting his work, his books or any religion.
I fostered it. I drank with him, and I let him know I found him just adorable, even when he was passed out in the bushes outside my house, or face down on my floor. I certainly allowed it, for 7 years up until now. I'm still allowing it. I profited from it, because in my terribly unwell codependent mind, feeling "needed" passes for currency. And now I have found special meetings for this sickness, and they are indeed called Alanon. So I don't see anything negative in that statement.
I could name 20 people without even thinking about it who accept and ignore my A's alcoholism. I could do the same for my A father, my A brothers and several A aquaintances. I think maybe that's what the author is shaking his stick at, not those of us who love and care for ourselves AND the A's we love enough to try to get ourselves better.
I haven't actually read the book, but that's what I get from that statement. I think I'll download it.
I take stuff too personally too, LINDa. But I read that sentence with different eyes to you and it seemed reasonable to me I'll probably find something else in the book to get cross about, lol.
Hi A, the way I read it is : the author is describing the special meetings (Alanon) that HELP the people who foster, and allow and profit from unhealthy codependency. He is not saying that Alanon is doing any of those things he is saying that alanon is the special meeting that helps those sort of people. I know this author he is all for Alanon and AA. Oldergal
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Linda, I am happy to continue this discussion in a PM, if you wish; it seems most appropriate. I will add, though, my perspectives are similar to the later postings.
Thanks for the replies. I agree the book was one person's opinion and even though ti was written by a Catholic priest, it was not trying to push his religion on anybody. It was about the 12 steps and how they connected to spiritualism.
Perhaps that part about alanon was something I misinterpreted. I hope so. It just sounded to me like he was anti-alanon and looked down on alanons.
I believe that this is a great example why Alanon Traditions states" Alanon 12 Step work should remain non professional " and why Alanon promotes only CAL for our recovery.
So true Betty. I have books by Toby Rice Drews and Melody Beattie and Karen Casey that are awesome reads. But I know not to share them at an alanon meeting.
I'll probably find something else in the book to get cross about, lol.