The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
What a very, very good topic. Thank you, BF. Loved reading all the shares, more of your story and ways you've chosen to help yourself inre Al-Anon meetings. You bring so much wisdom and strength and hope to our board. Thank you.
And Betty - I am sooooooooooooo glad you did enter Al-Anon and worked the program for as long as you have. As you know, there have been some really hard things for me to sort out for myself in relationship to my son of late and you have been such a strong program person to learn from together with others who have helped me so much on this board. I also appreciate reading more of your story.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 20th of August 2013 09:48:27 PM
I kinda with Paula on this... I'm good, share only my personal experience, strength and hope... until I find that current domestic violence is involved or the welfare of children is being jeopardized. Then I tend to go completely out of bounds. I am trying to watch myself on this stuff lately.
I love Al-Anon. We can share from our own experience, in relation to others, (indicating we relate to one another) but it does not give us a certificate of counseling others with our almighty advise. Over the years many have shared with me what they did under similar circumstances, but very few have tried to tell me what I should do. Instead, the collective experience that has been shared with me allowed me to develop options for myself that I wouldn't have otherwise considered. This empowered me to make my own decisions (based on the collective wisdom shared) and be responsible for following them through. My Al-Anon sponsor told me long ago, "I'm not here to tell you what to do, I'm here to support you in the decisions you make for yourself, and maybe help you find ways of bringing them to fruition, so they can materialize past being merely a thought, or great idea. If I feel you are headed in the wrong direction, I will ask you some questions in an attempt to heighten your awareness of what you are trying to accomplish and how or if this decision is going to get the results you are seeking for yourself. MY JOB IS TO GUIDE YOU IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, NOT TRY TO CONTROL OR MANIPULATE YOU INTO IT."
I came to Al-Anon wanting to be told what to do. I felt so clueless. But what I found is two things, 1.) I was asked what it is I wanted to do, and 2.) I was informed that today I have choices that I might not have thought about.
What did I want to do? Stop being so miserable, stop hurting so bad, stop being such confused person between being needy one minute and the fixer/rescuer the next.
What were some of my choices/options? Bring myself to fully grasp the meaning of Step One, and learn how to detach with love. Work this program to the best of my ability, and once I did the work, trust my Higher Power with the results.
John
-- Edited by John on Tuesday 20th of August 2013 10:45:32 PM
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" And what did we gain? A new life, with purpose, meaning and constant progress, and all the contentment and fulfillment that comes from such growth."
Advice giving can be so hurtful when you think you know the answers for someone else's life and problems. We all come to al-anon in some sort of disarray, because our lives have become unmanageable. I came in on my knees, such a hot mess that I was miserable and did not know which way was up. I was sick and needed the support of the wise al-anoners that had come through before me and gained the tools and were able to pass them on. I had to let my HP handle my A's, because I was not able to do it in a constructive way at all, I just had to let go of my false control and face that I could only control and take care of myself. I have learned so much and come so far in my recovery program with the help of lots of face to face meetings, my sponsor, reading recommended books and literature and listening to the wise old timers in my meetings and here.
I stopped going to a local meeting, because of cross talking and advice giving by newcomers that have been let to take over. I found a new meeting, but am still a bit peeved about it not being handled correctly. I know as al-anoners we can sometimes want to fix others, but I know that is what got me into the mess that I was in and that I have to be humble and know that lots of times I do not know what is best for someone else. I am not God nor in control of much outside of myself. I have a great sponsor that helped me to gain confidence in myself, my thoughts, decisions and to take charge of my life and self care. I struggle, but try to stay in my own yard on my side of the street and when I cross the street I hope others will hold me accountable. I believe that my healthy friends and fellow al-anoners need to keep me sharp and if I distract myself with others drama or cross the line I want to be reminded. I want and need the tough love that I have learned to use with my A's who I keep boundaries and detachment with for my own health. I post this in hopes to keep us heading towards health as a group here at MIP. I know we all come here in different states of health and different stages of recovery and I think we all have something to give and receive. I am just asking that we be mindful of what the purpose of al-anon is about and I know I need a reminder from time to time. Sending you all much love and support on your journeys.
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Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."
"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."
This is so timely for me, as I have found myself on the board today traveling into the "telling others what to do". I am spending the eve looking within to unravel where I am feeling out of control, which then manifests in wanting to control the outcomes in others lives. Thank you for your post, I deeply appreciate it.
I have found myself in the same predicament you have just mentioned , and have to remind myself that all of our meetings are a little different . Autonamy As long as they are using the steps and traditions and as far as cross talk well it drives me nuts too , all I can do is work my program and perhaps lead by example and not participate . I try to focus on the similarities not the differences but I am not always successful , I am still a work in progress . Louise
Thank you Breaking Free I agree completely. Recovery from this disease is a delicate balance that must be nourished but never controlled . I love the quote from the ODAT that states "To give advise to others is to intrude, to give advise to myself is to grow,
Sharing on the Board helps to keep the alanon tools fresh in my mind so I can pass them on and sharing my ESH is what the program is all about.
Thanks, Breaking....Very nice and timely share....I, too, need to be reminded that I can only sweep the leaves off my side of the street.....hugs of support
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Suggestions are welcome from those with more time in AA. It's taken me a while to tone this down on this board as Alanon culture is so different in this regard.
The thought is "if you want what I have, you should do what I did." Literally heard this many times in AA. I get the need for the difference. AA folks don't listen enough and alanoners would be prone to being contolled and listening too much to stuff they need not listen to.
I thought about this thread tonight. What I noticed is that I have more of a tendency to be directive when the safety of children is at risk. When I worked with children many years ago, I witnessed child abuse/neglect and spent many hours in court testifying on behalf of those children. Fast forward several years and I was fighting on behalf of my two youngest children, who were sexually abused in the daycare I chose for them. I am triggered when I read posts where children are in danger.
Hi Again I do understand that fear Paula and I believe responding in that situation is understandable I was thinking of Marks remark and thought I would try to explain how alanon worked for me.
When I found alanon and entered the rooms I heard that I was safe and what I said in the rooms remained in the rooms. In order to recover I needed to share my secrets and let go of the negative happenings of my life. I was assured that here I could speak my truth and not be told what to do, The rooms were safe and many would identify with my shares but would only she their ESH and offer alanon tools for me to use. The reason for this was that we who have lived with this disease have developed huge fears. Fear of failure, fear of making mistakes, fear of connections. commitments etc. To over come these fears it was important to share our truth. and learn to trust ourselves. Another reason for this is that in the relationship we were never heard - completely we were interrupted when talking and told we were wrong all the time. Since the answer for our lives are within we needed to learn how to go within and find our answers. That is why at meeting we can speak our truth without cross talk or advise.
W hen I arrived in the rooms of alanon I thought I knew everything and how to solve everyone's live. I was very busy giving advise and taking care of other so that I did not have to look at or feel my pain. In doing this I also felt in control, important and as if I was needed After a time I became teachable and worked this program
It did not dawn on me that I never honestly looked at my own life and the problems that I refused to see. I lived in denial of the reality of alcoholism in my home and pretended all was fine and I was happy. I never told anyone the truth of my life. As the disease progress I lived in more and more isolation and my self esteem plummeted. I believed all the negative remarks that the A told me, such as I I was stupid, could not live on my not support myself,needed him etc.
I learned to trust HP, Myself and then others. Principles above personalities helped me to understand how this works and how to respect in others in the process
I think there are three stages in recovery here. The first one is when I am either blaming myself, or just about everyone else foe everything. I am emotionally numb- dead.
The second one is when I have all the answers and I am only to willing to tell others what they need to do. You oughta and you gotta...
...I hope I am getting of the third. where i have a balance between my needs and others.
I found out about the 'no cross-talk rule' online.
[I have seen one or two online forums where the 'no cross-talk rule' was imposed for each and every conversation No! N0! NO!]
Great! I went along to the local AA Open meeting to get a handle on how it worked. Our Alanon local does it and newcomers take it as a given. Great.
After years of needing to help it is hard sometimes to break the habit. Leading by example, for me, is the way out.
I thought about this thread tonight. What I noticed is that I have more of a tendency to be directive when the safety of children is at risk. When I worked with children many years ago, I witnessed child abuse/neglect and spent many hours in court testifying on behalf of those children. Fast forward several years and I was fighting on behalf of my two youngest children, who were sexually abused in the daycare I chose for them. I am triggered when I read posts where children are in danger.
(((Paula))) I am SO with you on this...You know my story...i am not ashamed of it....this kind of evil is so devastating and for me it has impacted me for life b/c... A- it was a parent B- It went on for so so long...C- the mental abuse and blaming of ME that I suffered........but I battle for me...And I wont' give up on me.......and yes...I get majorally triggered when I hear or even smell that kids are in danger....My protective fangs come out...I am so sorry your children experienced that...I am glad they had a good mom that I know you were and are....I wish I had a mom that was good like you...Maybe my road to recovery would not be so long and full of rocks........My heartfelt respect goes to you.....
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
When I found alanon and entered the rooms I heard that I was safe and what I said in the rooms remained in the rooms. In order to recover I needed to share my secrets and let go of the negative happenings of my life. I was assured that here I could speak my truth and not be told what to do, The rooms were safe and many would identify with my shares but would only she their ESH and offer alanon tools for me to use. The reason for this was that we who have lived with this disease have developed huge fears. Fear of failure, fear of making mistakes, fear of connections. commitments etc. To over come these fears it was important to share our truth. and learn to trust ourselves. Another reason for this is that in the relationship we were never heard - completely we were interrupted when talking and told we were wrong all the time. Since the answer for our lives are within we needed to learn how to go within and find our answers. That is why at meeting we can speak our truth without cross talk or advise.
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The above is from Hotrod..... I totally agree with this. AlAnons have been hurt in a way that can't be seen. It can only be found out after talking to them for awhile when they decide to be honest with you. Pre-AlAnons have learned that to be honest is to be in danger. They have learned to show the "white picket fence fantasy home" where things are always "fine". I learned to know everything about you while you knew nothing about me. I always asked the questions and avoided answering the questions. I never gave an opinion on anything because I had no opinions.
And after being in AlAnon for some time and learning to face down my fears and learning to share my truth....some people don't want to hear it. I have to go to AlAnon for my support. I have to go to AlAnon and keep on working on myself. And it has to be a gentle program or else it is no different than pre-AlAnon.
All the answers are in the steps of the program.....but, boy those steps!!! They have a lot of parts to them!
In my area there are some who only want step meetings. There are those who prefer the readings from the daily readers and topics only from that. There are others who only want to talk about crisis, and someone is always having a crisis. I think if you are able to try different meetings you can find what you like and what you need.
PinkChip, maybe one of the difference between the audiences in AA and the audiences in Al Anon is that in AA, the one, universal truth that seems (I say "seems," because I am not an AA member and have never been to a meeting...my knowledge of AA is based on what I have read here, the very limited things my AH has shared with me, and the stuff that is just generally out there in the universe) to be present in AA is that you stop drinking. You abstain completely from your addiction. Whereas, in Al Anon, that is not always the case. For example, even if you are divorced from your alcoholic spouse and have minimal contact with him/her, if you share children there almost always has to be a certain amount of contact. Sometimes Al Anon-ers can completely abstain from their drug of choice (their qualifier, and/or the drama that comes with being in the relationship), but sometimes not. And Al Anon seems to be a program where a wide variety of individual choices regarding a member's level of interaction with his or her "drug of choice" is respected. But in AA, the general sentiment is quit drinking, period. So maybe in AA, it's just straight-up easier to say "if you want what I have, do what I do." I realize there is a lot more to AA, and to recovery, than "quit drinking, period," but that one almost universal principle, even if it's not enshrined in the 12 steps, provides a rallying point for people to come together on, and to gauge to some extent the relative success of at least some of their recovery efforts.
I have re read these shares and have learned from them. It has been a cleansing 24 hours for me, and, much has come to light regarding the insights I have had as a result of BF's post. What has occurred, too, is the HP of this forum has whispered into us causing us to contemplate and maybe ground another level of our understanding of "how this stuff works". It has for me and I love it.
One of the greatest gifts my Al-Anon meetings has given me is the gift of silence. And yes, that meant when I voiced problems with my exAH, I didn't have members come up to me after the meeting or say during the meeting, "Kelly, you should leave the jerk!"
Sure, I bet many thought that to themselves, but their silence on the matter allowed me the dignity to work out the problems with the aid of my Higher Power.
The only Al-Anon member I give slack to on the advice-giving is my sponsor, as I've asked her personally to assist me with my recovery. She knows my story inside and out so she has way better perspective of what's going on in my life than the other members whom only hear me talk for three or five minutes out of an entire hour once or twice a week or so.
I sill will step outside of the advice giving, however, when it comes to recommending newcomers to this board get to face-to-face meetings. I feel very strongly about that. But I'm not going to say "leave your AH while you're at it."
It's truly hard sometimes to not tell someone what to do, because I want to believe that the advice I am giving is absolutely right. Except I've learned that we all have to work things out in our own time, and with our HP.
Hey, that's a great share Bf...