The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
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level.
I was friends with a man I worked with years ago. We were both in our late 30s when we met. As we grew to know each other and care about each other, I suddenly became like another person inside. Like I was 15 or 16 again. Every insecurity I had went off in me. I couldn't believe it was even me. I hadn't felt that way in a long time and had dated quite a few men since my divorce - some seriously. But with this guy - who knows what was triggering all that? Well.........we got to know each other better and better. One day he told me he "used to have a drinking problem." Your share made me look back at that time. All that stuff going off in me was instinctive knowledge trying to protect me. I loved him. He loved me. I couldn't have gone any further with him than we did or him with me. SJ - in reading where you're being encouraged to meet women, buy a drink, dance - do you think your instinctual self might be trying to tell you something? I know mine was talking to me.
He and I are still best friends. If I needed him, he'd come to help me. But...he wasn't right for me as a husband or me as his wife because we were both affected by a disease that neither of us asked for but had to acknowledge even if subconsciously. He was a good man, but not working a program. I was in Al-Anon and CODA, but neither of those programs would have made us right for each other as a married couple.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 20th of August 2013 10:35:34 PM
-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 20th of August 2013 10:38:43 PM
My name is slogan_jim and I am a grateful member of al-anon.
I have an issue that I feel may be rooted in my fathers alcoholism. Growing up in an alcoholic home I was very ashamed. I was very embarrassed by my family, my upbringing and my father. This affected many areas of my social life including dating. I was never focused on finding a relationship or dating because I was always focused on the alcoholic and what I was going to do next to get out of the situation. Worried about what horrible thing was going to happen to him next. Throughout that whole ordeal, I never learned how to talk to girls.
To this day, I still cant. I have no problem talking to older women. In fact, I get along with and feel I can relate more with the older women in my office (50+). I give full credit to the fellowship for that. Every meeting I go to, someone is ready to hug me, listen and compliment (flirt? J) with me.
With women my age and younger (30-) this is not the case. I start with hi, Im Jim,' then I freeze. I cant carry a conversation. I wind up trying to hard and it just looks desperate and sad.
This is embarrassing and its a reason why I isolate myself more and more. I went out with some young co-workers Friday night and one kept pointing out Jim, there are tons of nice ladies for you to talk to. Go buy one a drink, go dance and I just cant do it. I kept declining and brushing it off as being pressured was getting on my nerves.
But how am I going to meet someone if I cant start a conversation and show interest?
So glad you posted this , it took guts . Don't be embarrassed I am sure your not the only man on the planet who has this problem . A friend of mine went to a work shop that Toast Masters puts on in different communities there may be a Toast Masters in your area . the course is usually 6 weeks in length and he said it changed his life gave him the confidence he needed to converse with anyone any age . My friend had the same problem you mentioned , us old broads were easy to talk to hehe good luck Louise
You know its funny...I am so used to talking/conversing w/ drunks or dysfunctionals, i was telling my good friend just today...(she is in recovery too, in MA) anyway we were trying to figure out "what would we DO w/a HEALTHY man????" I guess as I work on me and build confidence and self esteem/love for me, I will be "ok"....it is a "let it begin w/me" thingy to me.....I think most important is not to be scared to be me, like at my pool this summer, I had a few guys show interest in me and I kept it very basic...I love sports and current events, etc, so there was plenty of stuff for me to chat about...I guess that is a good sign, but if I got w/someone and it could be a "real" relationship??? I guess I will just have to be me with my perfect imperfections and if they cannot accept me as is??? Don't need it....
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Hello Jim, you are about the age of my grown up daughter, I am one of those you'd probably have no problem chatting with. I can say the same thing is true for me, if I find a guy promising or feel he is the slightest bit interested in me, my tongue dances with my tonsils and I think AFTERWARDS of the perfect things to say. Well, that's what I'm working on changing about me, one of them anyway. I am determined to put everybody in the "Friend" position first - for as long as it takes; I am doing this in order to be able to relax and discover whether I want them in any other position, whether their personality warrants more than friendship. Considering them in the friend mode also allows me to relax and show them who I am - and that's a very important part of the equation because I am also determined to be ME with no apologies. I don't want to be that girl who turns into something she's not in order to get some guy and then winds up unhappy because I got him but he don't really want who I really am.
There's this sort of promising interesting guy in my town who walks by my house at least twice every day. He's smart, building an airplane in his garage; and I enjoy chatting with him. We've been chatting over my fence occasionally for the last two years, not every day, not a lot, but I'm trying to figure out if he's maybe interested in me or just a nice guy. And - either way, interested or just nice guy, I'm ok with that because IF he's interested, I want him to see enough of me to decide if he wants to see more; and if he is just a nice guy, well, that's ok too because I know that I enjoy his friendship.
My relationship with my ex A was a loneliness driven relationship; I didn't wait to see if he really liked who I was; and, trying to be what he wanted and not being myself drove me out of my mind!
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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
From Likemyheart...... I am determined to put everybody in the "Friend" position first - for as long as it takes; I am doing this in order to be able to relax and discover whether I want them in any other position, whether their personality warrants more than friendship.
THIS is SO perfect.....be "friends" FIRST....check them out....for me it is probation for quite some time.......LOVE the way you put it....
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Could you be looking in the wrong place SJim, a "drink" and a "dance" my guess this is not where you are comfortable, how can you be at ease. Find out what your true passions are first and then find other people who do the same thing. Don't look for a girl in a bar because more than likely they need booze to have fun. Its more than ok to read books or take classes on how to be at ease and confident. Find out who you are SJim and what kind of person you really want to be and who you want to attract. As they say think about 10 things you want in a women first give it some real thought...and then if you find one with at least 7 of those traits and characteristics you will be doing good. Good Luck. Oldergal....
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Don't Worry About Growing Old, It Is A Privilege For Some Of Us.....
I found that doing an asset list each morning helped to build my self awareness and develop my self esteem so that I feel comfortable in my own body. Today's Reading in the C2C speaks to this topic.
I met my current partner of 26 years at an alanon share a day when I was not looking. I know friends have done the same by Taking a class, like dancing ,yoga, art appreciation,or other activities like hiking, bird watching, camping, or biking. This enabled us to connect and speak about the activity we were engaged in and then connect on a deeper level.
Good Luck
-- Edited by hotrod on Wednesday 21st of August 2013 11:11:54 PM
For me Jim I had to start somewhere. I knew I didn't have the experience and had to get it including stumbling all over the place and walking into walls and having successes. It's not a rush thing...it's a things happen thing and I just let it happen. Expectations is a good lesson for now. What are you expecting and what are you not? I learned to slow down and do the waltz and then fox trot rather than just get right into break dancing. If you're feeling weird and or scared say it out loud and be human. I wouldn't "fake it till I make it" with another person because it would cause grief later on. Next step....
I'd suggest that a bar is not a great place to meet women anyway. What do you know about the women you meet there? A: They like to go to bars. For those of us who've been close to too many alcoholics already, liking bars is the last characteristic we need in a partner. Plus, it's an artificial situation. You've never met the person before, you're supposed to impress them right away, you're both sizing each other up -- no wonder it's hard. The truth is that thousands of people never go to bars to meet people, for just these reasons.
I'd bet that the reason you're at ease with women of 50+ in the office is not just that they're older. I'd bet it's that you've hung out with them before, the focus is on something else (you're really there to work, not to impress each other), you don't have to say the perfect thing or they'll leave -- it's not their age, it's the different situation!
All of the healthier people I've been with, I got to know through being friends first. The unhealthy people were people I met in "artificial" circumstances where people were pairing off. When you get to know someone as a friend first, the pressure is off, so it's easier to talk, plus you get to know what they're like much more than in a bar. You can find out if they're irritable or critical or they drink at odd times or any other red flags. And you can leave them at "friend" status if so, because you haven't jumped into anything.
There are a lot of women looking to meet men as friends first -- in fact it's usually the way women prefer to do it. You might consider figuring out what you like to do for fun that women might like to do too. A local hiking club? An evening class? (If you took an evening cooking class, you might well be the only man and you'd have a ton of women competing to get to know you -- that could be a nice ego boost, plus you could cook!) Co-ed softball? Volunteer at the local animal shelter? Something where there's a lot of hanging out and talking. It takes a while for the ice to thaw, naturally. But as the weeks pass, people start chatting and getting to know each other. Then it's not "Can I impress this one person really quickly before she loses interest?" It's "Which of these friends I've gotten to know seems worth getting to know better?" That's my view of it.
SJ: Just a little more E/S/H. I am an introvert. I prefer to sit and watch and then decide who I want to get to know better. I can't just "get in there" with people easily. My immediate thought as an introvert is "What might happen to me if I do this?" Extroverts think "Wow! What can I do in this situation?" People see me sometimes as stuck up or hard to get to know because I am reserved in new situations. I'm not. I'm just not quick on the draw and for good reasons. Situations where people are together for short times or "networking" (I hate that term) or cocktail parties are some places that I am never comfortable because there is too much pressure to perform for me as an introvert and not enough time to really get to watch folks and listen to who it is I might truly be drawn to in a situation like that. I tend to build relationships with people I'm working with or spend a lot of time with in an environment where we're doing service work or learning about something we're all interested in. I can put on a mask when I have to move out of my comfort zone and put on my game face for my work or to help people feel comfortable and at home in a particular situation. But my default mode is always "What might happen to me if I reach out here?"
Anxiety melts when I smile while trying to establish eye contact and say "hi". It works for me in various settings. Mostly, people respond favorably and return the greeting. It is a start. The rest is coming as I continue to repair and rebuild my self esteem and grow comfortable in my skin... of course, it means temporarily being uncomfortable when I have to push outside my comfort zone- but, the strength I receive from changing what I can is so worth it.... I try and add one new thing every week and look for opportunities to practice. ODAT
I have had to learn to ACCEPT that there are 2 possible answers to anything. Yes or No. Focusing on what tools I will use to accept both before I start helps me. Usually - remembering I am exactly where I am suppose to be. No doesn't equal "I'm bad". It means that person has a path that doesn't fall in line with mine right now - and they are exactly where they are suppose to be too. God bless em in their journey.
Jim, we're about the same age, and I feel your pain tremendously. I am still married, though separated by 900 miles, and after years of accepting poor treatment, insults, neglect, verbal abuse, etc., I find it is very, very difficult for me to accept any compliments from anybody, or to imagine that anybody would want to share time with me in any capacity (as friends, as lovers, whatever). It takes a long time to rebuild that self-confidence. I am a natural extrovert, so these past 4 years have brought about a huge change in me. Just try to be gentle with yourself. Don't expect to move mountains, or to meet your soul mate and be married in 6 months. Maybe try setting a small goal for yourself to push beyond your comfort zone just a tiny bit. I know it sounds forced, but it helps me to be loosely aware of what's going on with the area's sports teams, what the big news items are (non-controversial, non-emotional news items), what big movies just came out or are just coming out...that kind of thing that can be the starting point for a conversation. And there are always the go-to questions for a new acquaintance: What is your career? How long have you lived in the area? Where are you from originally? Sometimes you can find some common ground in those kinds of questions, which lead to more conversation without asking a bunch of really personal stuff. Before you know it, your comfort zone gets bigger and bigger, and you are opening yourself up emotionally more than you ever thought possible.
I am just feeling so lonely. I get out, I join co-ed sports leagues, I go to al-anon meetings.
It just seems like everyone is pairing up, getting married, engaged, finding new relationships.
I know I need to trust God and I am blessed in so many ways. Sometimes I feel like God has forgotten about me in this regard.
These feelings and thoughts will pass, too, SJ. I've felt the same as you in my lifetime. Then, I discovered a new passion hidden beneath the loneliness and sensed God's leading and walked through doors that opened to me. And most of the opening doors were never what I'd ever thought about or planned. I read all the responses to your share. Wow! You've received a gold mine of wisdom here. Can't help but wonder if they're HP'd especially for you?
-- Edited by grateful2be on Wednesday 21st of August 2013 11:07:04 PM
Well, Jim, if it makes you feel any better, I was so lonely and feeling forgotten by the world during my protracted divorce that in desperation I reached out to my "one who got away," who turned out to be a recovering A, who relapsed, and I am now staring down the barrel of divorce #2 before I'm 40. So...hang in there, and try to trust your HP on this one, too.
