New development - son - Al-Anon Family Group

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

New development - son

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Grateful2be

I do so understand and do agree with you that--- Opening that door could proved a disaster. Is there anyway for you to contact his PO and ask him to handle the situation since it is he who must approve it all in the long run?

In my prayers.

--

-- Edited by hotrod on Sunday 4th of August 2013 08:47:40 PM

Cathyinaz · ~*Service Worker*~

My son recently hurt himself very very badly and he was in the hospital a couple of days. He called afterwards crying but I didn't give in. I would have run to his side in the past but I just say he will get past this if he truly wants it. He got himself to the hospital by a friend...yes he got there on his own without my help. If there is somebody around he will find a way. Pain is a motivator I'm learning.

I'm so sorry your going through this I know how hard it is to think "WHAT IF" but I figured I'm not being cruel anymore...I'm trying to help him no matter how bad it gets.

I pray for your peace in making a decision on what you should do...but like them....only you can decide

(((( hugs ))))

Bettina · ~*Service Worker*~

Grateful,

You can call him and say No, or not call him which means No, he will get the picture .

See what chaos in your mind is already developing just by this one issue. Don't invite it in....

Hugs, Bettina

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks, all. You have all been a big help. In listening to God, myself, to you and to the program as I understand it - for today I have let things go as they will go with no phone call from me tonight. In AA recovery, those who go through difficult times are reminded not to take the first drink. Tonight, I've decided not to make the first call. This hurts me for my son, I can't imagine what it must feel like to have your Mom refuse to return your call even if you say you're in pain and that you're going to have surgery. It would be great if I didn't believe that he really wants his drugs or he really wants money, but that wouldn't be true. That's what I think.

Jerry asked some really good questions - one that really stuck out for me - is it that you can't or won't help him. The answer to that question is both. I can't help him destroy himself and I won't help him destroy himself. He knows that his being sick or in trouble matters to me. He knows he matters to me. He also knows what I said to him before he left prison. I can't go through this again. I mean it. I can't. I won't. He's done nothing that I know of that will help him recover. My own recovery is what's most important to me. Like an addict, I, too must make sobriety my #1 goal. There is no way God didn't lead me to this board. There is no way that God would ask a 64 year old woman to enter into this crazy-making world for no good purpose. I even question his having surgery and the drugs that can be administered considering all the drugs he has been taking in the past and what it does to him. If I could say that and my son would listen, it makes sense to call him. But, I also know my son. He does what he does. He will do what he will do. Until he gets into recovery again - for real - any genuine relationship with him is impossible. And that is what I want - a genuine relationship to my son - not another go around with the effects of his disease. Even affirming him will be used to manipulate me in some way. The disease will use the words I use to try to trip me up at another time if not at that one.

My experience of my HP is this: That my freedom and my well-being is tied up in loving God, myself and others as myself. If I choose to put myself in what I intuit is harm's way, I am choosing bondage and dis-ease. That is not what I trust God desires for me and I trust God knows better than me. I cannot bring my son anything that God cannot supply better. I cannot bring my son to sobriety better than a recovering A can do. I can pray for my son. I can love him from a distance. I cannot be party to what I'm fairly certain is the disease asking me to re-engage. The answer is no.

I share this with you at the suggestion of one of our members. If it is a help to some of you, I'm glad. Tomorrow, more might be revealed and I might call or visit my son. But, today, the answer is no.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Sunday 4th of August 2013 08:36:30 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Sunday 4th of August 2013 08:39:55 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Sunday 4th of August 2013 08:43:54 PM

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Three responses. All 3 seeing the disease at work. Thank you. Betty: I like your suggestion about the PO and it is the same PO who tried to manipulate me using my son to approve my home as a place for my son to live when leaving prison. I think, for now, that the best thing I can do is let the PO and my son work this all out as the rest of your suggestion seems to point to in this regard. I do think I might call my son tonight after 9. If he's not drunk, I will tell him I understand and no, I can't help. I don't have the energy. Of course, I have hours to go before this will happen and can change my mind about calling him, but for now - I'm feeling much more assured that this is the disease AGAIN and I don't have to bite.
(((C, B, B)))

FAITH1988 · Veteran Member

Grateful2be,

You know what is best for you, it is not to be sucked in. I know I couldn't resist calling myself (I got a lot of work to do) our co dependent selves say THEY NEED ME HERE I COME, too easy to walk away when all our lives we have rescued. It is not good for you.

I don't understand off limit # till after 9. I say if you call you have to be strong and it will be draining. I know I could not be strong and could jump right back into the Co dependent role so easy.

Grateful, you know I am just working my sets again, but I wanted to respond.

Most of all protect your SERENITY

{{{{{faith}}}}}

oldergal · Senior Member

My first reaction to your post is "get on your knees and pray to your HP". The other thing I would say is when you hear his "voice" over the phone and his kind words to ask you to help him you may feel a little softer to his cry for help. I would be very aware of how it is going to make you feel when you actually have a one-on-one conversation with him. There are many here who have experience with this exact situation and can tell you like it is... I would wait to hear from them before deciding to call at 9. Or what I do is private message the ones I know who have "been there done that" Is this a matter of life and death? Or is this an opportunity for you to let him hit his bottom? I'd say it is the disease trying to draw you back in. But at the same time it is your "son" needing the help to make a serious decision about an operation. Remember "cunning". Your need will go on my prayer lines today in hopes that the Holy Spirit will lead you. In support Oldergal.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks, Faith: My son is living in a motel room financed by the State's Department of Corrections. He is tethered. His phone is monitored throughout the day so that if the State Police want to call and check, they can find him in his room. He can't have calls there until after 9:00 p.m.
He can only use the phone for incoming calls. He can't make outgoing calls.

Thanks, Oldergal: I have been praying - 11th step - on the phone call at 9. I know enough medical information that he could have a strangulated hernia, but I'm not a doctor, I don't know. He's already made arrangements for surgery on Wednesday - or so he said - in ER - which sounds strange to me and yet without insurance - maybe, I just don't know. I do know, I'm not calling this afternoon during the restricted times. If he could use somebody's cellphone to call me. He can use somebody's cellphone to call for emergency assistance. The last time I spoke with him, I could hear gals in the background laughing as he slurred his words. I'm fairly certain he has contacts although I don't know any of this for sure.
I am glad the guidance for calling him at 9 is still wait and to pray. I have to say - each time he calls and his voice sounds sweet - Mommy comes alive again. Geez.

Cathyinaz · ~*Service Worker*~

One more thing....remember me last week. I let my son in and I was just going to moved his bed for him to the ranch. He came drunk, he came drugged he came and it was my fault I didn't help him move. I took a chance and look where it took me. I can't see my son destroy his life...it hurts to much. It's better he just stay away until he can change. Too many times sick, hurt and diseased he called me and I went just to be hurt again and again. I watch my son on a ventilator and almost die. ICU many times. Seizures seizures and more seizures. He will either live or he will die....I might have to give him to God so I have to learn to deal with it now.

I'm powerless.....

Grant you if he does have a strangulated hernia he is hurting but it can be corrected and not death. If it is that bad he can called 911 and they can take him in at any time. EMT will not leave him there to suffer.

Oh my son is the same way .....so sweet and loving. I melt forgetting everything and don't check my motives..I just run.

I have let go......HP will help me let go

(((( hugs ))))

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Grateful just a few add-on ideas along with the rest of the family. Thought...what would he do and how would he do it if there was no "you"?

Okay...there is a "you" and so truthfully is it that you "can't" help him or "won't" help him. Honesty counts.

Are you "detaching" or "abandoning" him...You detach from adults and abandon children or infants.

Is it that he "can't" get help or "won't" get help. Sometimes the difference is between who is looking at it and what's important is how "I" look at it. The more I do, the more he won't.

Who is "Higher Power" really? Real or un-Real?

Last one for me always sent me in the right direction...What does the program suggest that I do and will I do it?

For me...when I was here...I use to think of it as "practice" time...God First, Me second, Son next. Not only did that process give me much of my life back it also gave me alot to time to live my life. My son lives the consequences of his choices not mine and that is how it should be and would be if I wasn't in the picture anyway. He has choices...a million and more of them...if one isn't working he can make another and it would be much better for him if he thought out what he wanted in the first place and then did the work to get it.

(((((hugs))))) smile

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

Good evening...I just returned from a weekend away. I hear you are not feeling well and your first responsibility is to your own health. As a loving mom, you could say to him that you are not feeling well and you trust that he will be able to find a way to care for his health, just as you are. If it were me, I might add "I am so proud of you for caring for yourself...I love you, let me know how it goes". Then I might have a good cry and spend some time in prayer to help me detach. I am so sorry for this emotional time, again. Take care of you...

Cathyinaz · ~*Service Worker*~

Like you do for us....we are here for you, so write as much as you need to to keep strong and have the courage to stay strong.

(((( hugs ))))

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

Bettina wrote:

Grateful,

You can call him and say No, or not call him which means No, he will get the picture .

See what chaos in your mind is already developing just by this one issue. Don't invite it in....

Hugs, Bettina

I totally concur with Cathy and Bettina.....They have a way of getting their stuff taken care of on their own w/out our enabling them..helping them, paying for them.....Just look at the drama and stress this is causing you already....Time to unhook, let him deal with his own problems...He will find a way...If they can be that creative to drink/use/manipulate, they can find help for themselves in other ways.......

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

(((N)))

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks WTI. I appreciate the work you have done on yourself and the experience you have to share. My son does have tools. He chooses not to choose them. He's been in recovery. He doesn't want to return. After much work and prayer and a night of sleep, I awakened knowing that he called because he wants money. The answer is no in my not engaging. This is one of those opportunities for me to teach him by what I do and not what I say. For this day, my plan is to take care of myself. Al-Anon is my amends to my son. Choosing to stay totally out of HP's way and letting happen whatever will happen. There comes a time in these types of relationships when even limited exposure is too much in my experience. I also know that in AA, recovering As work with those who want the program/change. They don't continue to be in relationship to someone who doesn't want it although the door stays open for when someone might want it. They work with those who do want it. I love my son enough to accept that he doesn't want sobriety. I love myself enough to know that I have to totally let him go much as it hurts me to do that. My health is my #1 priority now. Glad you're on the board and learning with us. To add a little to this, my son in his disease is hoping for my death because he is hoping to inherit whatever assets I leave. He has repeated this to my daughter many times. Part of the reason she wants nothing to do with him now. He can also be violent and I won't help him hurt himself further by making myself a willing target for him. Underneath all that disease is a person who is receiving whatever he puts out. I love that person and I won't be the one in the way of his disease that will do all it can to get what it thinks it needs to survive. Maybe none of this makes sense to you, but it makes perfect sense to me. Keep on with the program, friend. You have a tender heart. (((WTI)))

-- Edited by grateful2be on Monday 5th of August 2013 08:21:51 AM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Monday 5th of August 2013 08:29:54 AM

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Hon I am proud of you for saying no to son. I know the trap. We think oh this is one I better help him with. Then you find yourself right back in a mess. Just happened to Cathy!

But that does not mean you cannot choose to check it out either.

I am not myself. ok and happy, physically not so hot.

So can't say much more, but am praying for you! And sending you love, your friend, debilyn

wornoutmrsfixit · Senior Member

Love your analogy of the alcoholic taking one drink to your making the one phone call. One thing to remember - the times that I have given in and made calls, etc. on a deadlie given by them, they don't answer or don't even seem to remember asking me to contact them anyway.

wornoutmrsfixit · Senior Member

Ooops . . . deadliNe. (I stink at touch screen typing.)

WorkingThroughIt · ~*Service Worker*~

With my qualifiers I did steps 1-8 out if AAs Big Book and made my amends to them.
I carefully considered my own harms through the years.
I listed the harms as I prayed for them over 3-5 days and asked if I could make an appt to see them (individually one at a time).
I showed up on time and admitted my harms.
There was more, too much to go into here.

That was the first step in these relationships. I then felt I had really done everything I could
For them and for me for that time.

I continued my amends by being the best daughter I could be but their abuse continued so things have gotten worse again for them Nd for me.

Today I limit my exposure as much as possible, I tolerate a lot of hurt and manipulation, I try not to react or be hasty or foolish, And I say what I mean and will not lie. I also say it with kindness knowing they are sick like me.

They don't have any tools.
You do.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi, OG. There won't be any assets. Consequences of his lifestyle hopefully will help him change his mind before he dies or I die. Until then, I guess living a prudent lifestyle is mine to do while I say no to being a bank. I'm of the firm belief, you don't work, you don't eat. And wanting what other people work for to be yours is a very scary way to live. My heart goes out to folks whose disease tricks them into thinking they can't do anything to change their status and other people have to do it for them. But - again - I can only apply that concept to my own life, I guess.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Monday 5th of August 2013 03:28:21 PM

Cathyinaz · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm so sorry you went though so much pain over money. Yes he might have a underlying problem with health but money? That's just not right

I guess a lesson learned like me last week. I will not give in to my son's helplessness again.

Take care of you today...one day at a time

((( hugs ))))

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Not so much pain over money, Cathy, but realizing my son's disease wants me dead for the money it might gain. This disease is truly a spiritual disease and only a HP untouched by it can do anything about it. Our sons are completely resourceful when it comes to finding their drugs. HP is completely resourceful in helping them find their souls again but won't force it. Good that we're letting them be. Good that we're letting ourselves grow in new ways with HP's guidance and support. I hope your day is peaceful and brings some happy surprises, too. (((C)))

Cathyinaz · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you Catherine..... we all can make it if we make that change.

Peace my friend..

oldergal · Senior Member

Well, I think if my son thought he would inherit money etc. when I died, I would tell him his name was not on the will anymore, even if it wasnt the truth, because I think he would be hanging on to his lifestyle until I was gone....and then he wouldnt have to change a thing, because now he has lots of money. I am not sure if there is such a thing as a white lie. But if it could cause my son to get his act together because he was not receiving a dime from me after my death, it just might change his thinking. Just an idea. oldergal

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks for sharing your learnings, Maresie. It speaks volumes to me of how important this program has been for you.

To add a little: This is what I know. Until my son gives of himself in some way for no other reason than to give, he cannot receive. He's had many, many people in his life who have loved him, but he has chosen not to return it. His drinking/drugging is all related to one thing in my mind and that is - refusal to open his heart.

It doesn't matter to me whether folks think I am a loving mother or not - I know the kind of mother I was and that I am. His grasping after money all stems from insecurity and that insecurity stems from not opening his heart. That is something only God in His/Her infinite wisdom and knowledge of my son's purpose can do. If he doesn't open his heart - he will die. None of us can live completely centered on ourselves.

This knowledge grieves me for my son. I've seen the beauty within him but I cannot release it. No human being can release it. Only he can choose to do so or not. That's my understanding of freewill. The only truly free people I have ever known in my lifetime are people who can open their hearts to something or someone and that makes all the difference. The rest who don't - spend their lifetimes cursing the sun because it shines. I don't hurt for me. I ache for him.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 6th of August 2013 10:55:34 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 6th of August 2013 10:57:37 PM

orchidlover · ~*Service Worker*~

Your sons actions sound like a child wishing you dead. I am sure it is because they feel like they need an affirmation of your love. Taking an alcoholics words personally is a very good way to get trapped in feeling victimized, betrayed and abandoned. They certainly abandon themselves at every turn. I don't know that anyone as an alcoholic wants anything but ways to drink and they will certainly have ingenius ways of doing that. I think that is such a profound realization that their priority in their disease is to drink and if it hurts you then that's part of the disease. I also know that an alcoholic expects you to stand on your head for them all the time and if you don't then you are not loving them correctly. The whole issue is that the spotlight has to be on them all the time and their needs and their chaos and their absolutely immediate now is the only time demands.

All the alcoholics I know have those long improvised very very detailed problems that they expect someone else to solve for them. They don't pay rent but they would rather than landlord listen to the long complicated announcement about why. Then when they are evicted they have to look around for someone to blame.

No one here is going to point a finger at you and call you a bad mother. Certainly anyone who has been with an alcoholic son, daughter, spouse, father, whatever is indeed a very loving person. Anyone else would run and never look back.

I know when I set limits with an alcoholic addict I had to go at it day by day. When I finally got to the point of saying goodbye to the ex A he did all kinds of manipulation to make me believe that I alone could save him. In fact he had that cause at quite a few doorsteps. He did it to his Uncle as well and no doubt his mother too.

Saving an alcoholic is heady stuff for me. I can feel virtuous, giving (oh how I love giving till I am sucked dry) and kind. Being willing to look at just who was I being kind to and what my motives were was hard stuff. Behind every entreaty was this desperate measure of wanting it to be known that I was a kind loving person after all. An alcoholic can of course promise that wonderful appreciation very very well. When they are rescued they are indeed grateful for a while but then the gratitude has to turn into something else. And of course my overextending myself always but always turned into a resentment.

Knowing my limits has been such a gift to me in al anon. When I get to certain feelings I know I am at my limit and I can honor them. I don't dispute them anymore. I don't negotiate with them I know I am at them. I am so glad I went through all that process to get to here. I know it wasn't easy and sometimes I had to share every step of the journey with others. Whatever happened to other people wasn't the issue it was all about what happened to me when I absolutely overextended myself on so many levels. I thought that was my only really purposeful role in life.

Maresie.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.