The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I had similar struggles a few months back. Although I do believe in God as my higher power, I was finding myself surrounded by evangelical Christians in recovery and in my life. So, I asked myself why oh why? My answer came in the form of my own arrogance staring back at me and I did not like it one bit.! My fear was I would become like "them". I loosened my grip on myself, took down my guard and, when I need to, politely dismiss myself from conversations that I don't want to be part of. It is inappropriate for anyone to push their beliefs onto you and try to "save" you. If the pot gets too hot, find a more comfortable temperature and always "to thine ownself be true". We are all welcome here regardless of our beliefs!
And I forgot to add, I have since come to love those same people Maybe I really did get saved
-- Edited by PP on Friday 26th of July 2013 02:35:43 PM
-- Edited by PP on Friday 26th of July 2013 03:01:25 PM
You can believe in anything you want. I was told when I started Alanon 26 years ago, this is about YOUR GOD, whatever that may be.
I am a practicing Buddhist for 27 years. Its hard for me to say GOD because we don't believe in GOD as Christians do. We believe in self empowerment and the Law of cause and effect. I believe there is a strict law to the Universe and we live under that law.
That being said, I do believe there is an order to everything and if Alanon wants to call that my HP so be it. It has taken me a lot of years to feel comfortable with the HP part of Alanon . Your HP is your personal belief, whatever gets you thru. HP can be the HP part of yourself.
Nobody but nobody has the right to try and save you, or tell you what you should believe in. Not even Alanon followers.
Thats why I had to get off the last board I was on, it got too religious for me. If it were me I would look for a new sponsor. Sometimes people can only help us to a certain point.
Keep coming back Jim, were here for you. Hugs, Bettina
-- Edited by Bettina on Friday 26th of July 2013 03:34:28 PM
I'm an atheist and I am comfortable with my beliefs. I have never talked about my beliefs in the group, but I have told them I am an atheist. I probably should never have done that, even in private or just between members outside the meetings. There are members of my group who are not comfortable with my belief and want to convert or "save me". Sometimes I feel uncomfortable being in the group when they ask for prayers for someone sick, etc, At the end of the meeting the Christian Lord's Prayer is said to close the meeting. I generally remain silent for this.
I have a spiritual HP that I used in working the steps, My sponsor years ago ask me t write down those characteristics my God would have if I had a God. He looked over my list folded the paper and gave it back to me for me to carry, do that my "God" or HP is always with me. I can pray to it. My HP is just that, "a power greater than me" and nothing more. To "Let go and Let God" I use the concept of a god box. It is a simple cardboard box with a lid. I write the thing I wish to "turn over" on a small piece of paper, fold it and put into my box. Symbolically I have turned it over to my HP.
I may need to find another group where I am unknown and keep silent about being an atheist. Any thoughts? I love the group I belong to but I don't want to be a catalyst to hurt their recovery efforts, nor do I want to feel like I am caretaking by leaving. My current sponsor wants to "save me" in the guise of understand me, saying the "Courage to Change", "ODAT", and other books are filled with biblical scripture. I have never seen any biblical scripture in them. I may need to change sponsors. Any thoughts?
Hi, Jim: My religious background includes some branches within it who believe it is their job to "save" or to "convert" another person who does not share their beliefs. Even though my background is the same, some persons in some of the branches still saw the need to save me or convert me and I share the same tradition as they do.
I understand it. I don't agree with it. And it is something that has been done in many ways and in many cultures for centuries - not just religious views, but cultural, political and national views as well. If someone in an Al-Anon group is uncomfortable with your belief and tries to convert you to their understanding of God as is written in the third step, I find that to be inappropriate in Al-Anon meetings. I also find it to be something that happens wherever I go. People trying to persuade/convert me to their way of thinking about anything they feel strongly about. Often, I've discovered that that individual isn't sure of what they believe and need others to believe the way they do so that they can feel more comfortable with their own belief. I avoid them but I don't try to persuade them to see it my way because my understanding is equally valid and equally incomplete.
In my Al-Anon groups we have people with varying understandings of a HP. Only a few ever try to push their beliefs on others although many do share their understanding of a higher power and if that includes a particular religious understanding and it helps them heal and grow, I'm really glad for it. The folks trying to save us stop doing that after awhile and nobody ever says a word to them about it. They just kind of come to a new understanding of God as they work their steps and try to follow the traditions although never perfectly.
If you are uncomfortable with the Lord's Prayer and don't say it and allow others to say it by standing with them at the closing, I think that's a very loving and kind thing to do. I am sorry if some of us with our understanding of God might have pushed it rather than stated or lived it on you. I know it happens. I also think those who do it mean well and are doing their best to live according to what they know to be true at the time. All of us are in varying stages of healing in our groups and we make mistakes with each other. But, we also make amends as we grow and learn new ways of operating in life no matter what our understanding of God/HP might be.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 26th of July 2013 08:52:41 PM
-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 26th of July 2013 08:53:35 PM
I do not like to bring the topic of religion or my personal beliefs in Al-anon due to that.
From what I understand, the 12 steps are originally bible based but is put in a way to bring people of all backgrounds together. A Jewish woman in our group says The "Lord's Prayer" to her own understanding and not necessarily the "Christian" way; and you do not have to say the Lord's prayer. Anyone that asks you why you don't say it needs to do their "own inventory" as we need to change only what we can about ourselves. You can just smile and stay silent, and that'll tell them.
There are some locations where the sociology of a community can be defensive....I hope bible belt city Fort Worth is not too bad, but if you are to the point of feeling uncomfortable maybe you can find a group that practices Al-Anon the way it should and just leave personal beliefs out.
I'm not an atheist but I understand what it's like to have my beliefs condemned and I feel everyone should be respected as long as they are personally not hurting anyone.
The focus in Al-anon should be in ourselves and what we can change.
My old sponsor told the the SAME thing b/c I am ok, I am a bit screwed up, b/c I do believe in God and jesus, but I am agnostic about their involvement in my life.....I do NOT buy into the bible, I don't believe in it at all
When I pray, I say "may you be safe..Happy..healthy...may you live your life with ease"
My sponsor, too, told me to write what I would like for my HP to be or do...I essentially said, be my best friend, let me learn and grow on my own...and also be there for me when I am in over my head and the problem is bigger than I am and I cann't lift the big boulder.....
so essentially my HP with that part of the universe that is WITHIN me.....My "Christ within" but its through MY eyes, that I define it......organized religion and I parted ways a long time ago.....My "church" is anywhere where I am talking w/my inner HP.....
as to "saving" me, Yea, I have had people throw the bible at me and I just thank them for their share, but this is mY belief, MY choice, MY take on the Creator....
Step 2 is about coming to believe in a power greater than I AS I UNDERSTAND IT......that kept me from walking away from the program.....AS I GET IT....not someone elses definition...
Nobody should make you feel any less important in your group then anyone else.....You already said you have your own personal higher power....that is good enough....U do detach from stuff and put it in your box....that to me shows program in action.....
I'm not in the LEAST uncomfortable , posting on your share, here....U have your own HP as YOU SEE IT
that is what the program espouses.....sounds to me like No worries here, and welcome to the group if you are new....
When People try to "save" me, I just figure they don't have their own crap to worry about so they gotta mess with mine.....IF they were focused on their recovery, they would not have time to try to "save" me.....
Glad U R here........Re: this other place you talked about and sponsor???? Do what feels right....what does your inner voice tell you????? instinct is our "Highest self" talking I like to call it the "best within me"....
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
ABBYAL said..........Ocassionally we have a member who likes to bring in her beliefs , we just thank her for her sharring and move on . what you believe is no ones business . And I too obstain from saying the Lords Prayer .
At work, is where I notice the "pushing" their beliefs onto me...I have to be careful b/c I work w/a bunch of real bible toting christians and I just kinda "blow it off" keep my mouth shut, everyone to their own thing, I just don't share about religion....only with close people or in the course of my recovery and my ???S and struggles w/the "God thing" do I say anything.....all others don't need to know my beliefs or dis beliefs.....I have never felt "un welcome" in alanon or coda b/c of my ??S and struggles in this area.....I am sorta going back to my ancestral view of spirituality....to me religion is for people who fear hell............spirituality is for people who have already been in hell (me) and I have reverted back to my native american way of thinking.......However, even still, I embrace what thoughts work for me...leave what does not.....if a person has a good, honest, caring, moral, loving heart...who gives a crap how they believe...I look at the HEART of the person.....
-- Edited by neshema2 on Friday 26th of July 2013 08:51:38 PM
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
I am a practicing Buddhist for 27 years. Its hard for me to say GOD because we don't believe in GOD as Christians do. We believe in self empowerment and the Law of cause and effect. I believe there is a strict law to the Universe and we live under that law.
That being said, I do believe there is an order to everything and if Alanon wants to call that my HP so be it. It has taken me a lot of years to feel comfortable with the HP part of Alanon . Your HP is your personal belief, whatever gets you thru. HP can be the HP part of yourself.
-- Edited by Bettina on Friday 26th of July 2013 03:34:28 PM
Hey Bettina, I have read up on Budhism and I really relate to what they say....I have a prob. with a male gender "GOD" b/c of the past, I am sure....His telling me "God told me to do this to you" Literally that happened, and it was always a punishing, hurtful God I was taught about....and the churches , I felt more depressed coming out then goingiin.....I too, believe that there is an order to everything and I also buy into cause and effect...karma....a universal law of putting out good energy to draw good energy IN......oh yea, I can really relate....I took a dash of this, a spring of that, kinda mde my own rendition of what works for me...I probably, if given a label, would say I was native american in spirituality...b/c of the cherokee side in me.......no one size fits all...its what works for me......NICE post, Bettina......U doing ok today?????
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
I have to take situations like this and apply my Al-Anon tools where appropriate.
I follow a religion that not many people are aware of and I just outright choose not to say anything that refers specifically to that particular religion while in meetings. I've only given my sponsor a quick description of it and that's it.
I am lucky to have attended many groups that don't try to force down specific religions on me. When I first came to Al-Anon, I was genuinely concerned I'd be handed a bunch of Christian-speak and have people try to push me into attending church with them, etc. But that has never happened.
I realize I have a choice in all of this, too. I can either choose to feel uncomfortable about someone's comment about Buddha, or Jesus, or Ganesh, or Allah, or any other view they have of their HP... or I can just play a game in my head and when they say one of those specific names, I just wipe the board clean immediately and picture that instead they're talking about my own personal HP. Or not! Sometimes I hear a lot of views about people's HP's that I just simply don't agree with... or that it just doesn't fit my personal relationship with my HP.
That's where I get to "take what I like and leave the rest."
I can say that when I'm uncomfortable in certain situations, it's always important for me to take a personal inventory. See what's triggering me and if I'm making choices that are victimizing myself in some way. I've got to remember, ultimately, that I cannot change other people. If I'm going to a meeting and wishing others would stop talking about Jesus or other HP's that don't match my own, I can either choose to stop going, or choose to change my attitude about it. Either way, it's just important for me that I show up in a manner that lets me feel good about myself - that I treated both others and myself with respect when I make certain decisions.
Nemesha,
Thank you for your concern, I'm doing good. It will take me a little time to recover, but recover we must.
We have to get on the bicycle, keep on peddling forward don't we, even though sometimes we want to bask
in our memories. Here's to the new ones we will make.
Perhaps a reminder for your group , have a meeting on the 3 obstacles to success in Al-Anon . can be found in the back of the booklet 12 steps and traditions. Ocassionally we have a member who likes to bring in her beliefs , we just thank her for her sharring and move on . what you believe is no ones business . And I too obstain from saying the Lords Prayer . Business meetings are a good place to bring the topic up . group conscience rules . To solve the problem in our area a lot of our groups close with the Al-Anon decloration .
Nemesha, Thank you for your concern, I'm doing good. It will take me a little time to recover, but recover we must. We have to get on the bicycle, keep on peddling forward don't we, even though sometimes we want to bask in our memories. Here's to the new ones we will make. Hope your having a great day!
Hugs, Bettina
HUGS back you, Bettina, I am so glad U R doing better.....I really "soak" up your posts with all the gentle wisdom and abundance of love.......Take care, and so far day isn't too bad, lol....
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Maybe I really did get saved