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I have been away now for about 30 days. I have my own well appointed furnished 1bed/1bath home and I am comfortable. I have enrolled in a class to get a real estate license. I have found a part time job (that starts in 2 more weeks).
I left My AH because his drinking (and sporadic drug use, and poor decisions) had escalated to the point where he was putting me in danger as far at the people who were in my home...and I was putting my self in danger because I was at an emotional breaking point from the stress of his behavior as well as his controlling and verbally abusive treatment of me for years and years.
He had a wake up call..(Why it took 7 of them I am not sure.) But this time He was in a motorcycle accident (as opposed to an overdose). He is alive, no broken bones...but beat up. This only happened a few weeks ago.
Part I. He had continued to have his "buddies" staying with him..spending money on food and liquor for them...supposedly becuase he can't walk or drive.
Part II. I did a pop-in. the first time I spoke to him on the phone he asked me to come home, and I told him I would come see him... to which he said to come tomorrow. (weird). SO - I popped in the next day. To my horror - the house (our beautiful house) looked like a drug house. Sheets and towels were everywhere. All the beds were slept in and unmade, the toilets had mold in them (obviously no one bothered to clean it since I had left). I was horrified and disgusted and made that clear. I got some of my things and left again. but it was still nice to see him again..he was reasonable, and i stood my ground.
Part III. He had his better friends kick out his druggie moocher friends out of the house. He arranged for the woman who cleans his wounds to clean the house. (had had to find someone to clean his wounds because they got infected which warranted a trip to the hospital.
SO I feel like some improvements have been made. But to what extent I am not sure...my standards and expectations have become so low.
He continues to tell me how much he loves me and that this was a good thing that I left, that it woke him up. he admits to being insane and has nighmares of the dangerous situation that he put himself in. He understands (there is no way in can FULLY understand) how badly he treated me. He sees hope and loves me even more now.
That being said. I actually do believe him. I understand that he will likely say anything to get me back. But he was a pretty great guy before the A. BUT He continues to drink...just not liquor. He feel like he has laid down the line in that he will stop when I come home. I don't feel that way.
Alcholics are supposed to do things for themselves, right? But It would be foolish of me to go back before he has a few months of sobriety under his belt. He has agreed to see a counselor (probably more for the marriage aspect of this than his Alcoholism, he has told me he would go to AA, but I really don't think he will do it without me. TOO BAD right? He got us into this situation where we are separated. and He is gonna have to get us out. I suppose if he isn't willing to do it now, then it *should* be over.
I already know the answer....but it helps to see it in print. And I respect and appreciate your experiences and opinions.
Sadsusie,
If it were me, I would wait it out and keep on your path.... If he means it, he will still mean it no matter how long it takes.
His disease is not a moral issue, it has nothing to do with him being a good or bad guy. In order for him to stop he needs to be in a recovery program and in it for a time.
" He got us into the situation where we are separated. and He is gonna have to get us out". Shows me that you are still not understanding that you are dependant on whatever his decisions are. He is sick, he is not able to make rational decisions; but you are.
You sound like your are doing what your suppose to be doing, living your life and improving it for you. Keep coming back and stick with your Alanon meetings that i hope you are attending.
My opinon about marriage counseling is avoiding the issue of the alcoholism which brings most of the problems into the marriage. He needs a recovery program for his disease.
Keep coming back and stick to your boundaries.
Hugs, Bettina
I would wait til he is sober a whole year if it were me. And what is stopping him from going to AA and quitting completely now? Nothing. He's bargaining and manipulating with his own disease. That's not wellness. It's ongoing sickness and denial. If he really wanted to get sober he'd be going to lots of meetings right now, focusing on himself and telling you to do what you need to be healthy and happy. He doesn't need you to sober up. In fact, if he's making it contingent upon you, that's a set up for failure and resentment when he wants to drink later but blames you as the reason he cant.
" He got us into the situation where we are separated. and He is gonna have to get us out". Shows me that you are still not understanding that you are dependant on whatever his decisions are. He is sick, he is not able to make rational decisions; but you are.
You sound like your are doing what your suppose to be doing, living your life and improving it for you. Keep coming back and stick with your Alanon meetings that i hope you are attending.
My opinon about marriage counseling is avoiding the issue of the alcoholism which brings most of the problems into the marriage. He needs a recovery program for his disease.
I agree...he wants you back...where is his program??? How long has he been sober/not using and working AA??????
You are finally living a decent and healthier life, why are you considering giving that up for someone NOT in recovery, NOT working AA NOT calling a sponsor to work AA.....
If he wants you back, he will earn that right.....You can't help him, you can only help you.....And I see what Bettina is saying in her assessment of your post
I know you miss being a couple, I did too, but MY life and MY sanity and MY safety are first.....
I really urge you to get a sponsor, get into the meetings , get into the steps and discover yourself and to discover why you would want to go back to a guy who as you stated put you in danger, at least hangs out w/druggies, if not using himself and is an AH....why??? You made the break , and that was very very courageous....now you need to keep working program to keep up what you have built for yourself.
to go back to an AH who is NOT in recovery NOT working with a sponsor on the steps, almost has ZERO chance of success.......I mean if he is not really working the program, and abstaining and staying away from druggies, I can't see any chance of happiness but I do see more disaster and misery...
I can't tell you what to do...this is your life, your choice, all I can, and the rest of us can do is urge you to take care of and protect you...
Life is a CHOICE away....You got free...many women don't, you had the guts to walk away...many women stay out of fear or finances or whtever, you got away....I woudl stay away until I saw sustained "good fruit" from AH and that means a ton of recovery work and for a while...not just a few months, but for a while....
Just my ESH, please take what you can use and leave the rest..........Good luck
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
I would wait til he is sober a whole year if it were me. And what is stopping him from going to AA and quitting completely now? Nothing. He's bargaining and manipulating with his own disease. That's not wellness. It's ongoing sickness and denial. If he really wanted to get sober he'd be going to lots of meetings right now, focusing on himself and telling you to do what you need to be healthy and happy. He doesn't need you to sober up. In fact, if he's making it contingent upon you, that's a set up for failure and resentment when he wants to drink later but blames you as the reason he cant.
AMEN AMEN AMEN.....Just wanna say thank you for this really awesome share.......I love the way you tell it like it is, kind but firm and serious and to the point.... and sooo spot on.....Thank you, Mark.......btw, how is all the changes u r going through doing???? and how are the critters????? Hope all is fine...
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
It sounds to me as if he wants things back exactly the way he had them. Someone to clean, cook, take care of him, and be around. If he were going to go to meetings, he would have started already. If he were going to stop drinking, he would have already. Drinking "but not liquor" is drinking. He's fooling himself and trying to fool others if he thinks "drinking but not liquor" changes anything. "He will stop if/when you come home!" if he wanted to stop, he wouldn't need your physical presence to do it. And if he were going to take care of the house and not have it look like a pigsty, he would have been doing it all along.
Instead, he got you to come over. Now he's working on the next step: to get you to move back in.
He was putting you in danger, and nothing has changed. He is still drinking, he is not going to meetings, he is not on top of things. He is trying to see "Can I get her to come back and then I can go on as usual?"
But if he's serious about recovery, then there is no hurry. He will be more solid in his recovery after a year. So you are perfectly safe to tell him, "I'm so happy you've decided to go into recovery and stop drinking. I look forward to wonderful things happening in the years ahead, and I'll take a warm interest in your good health -- from over here in my own place."
WORDS, WORDS, WORDS, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. ACTION, ACTION, ACTION is what you need to see. He needs to be in a program now not tomorrow. Play it smart and sit back and watch what happens before you make a move....and don't drive him to a meeting, he needs to ask all his "great friends" to get him there! Please pursue the Alanon program for yourself it will help you immensely. In support Oldergal
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Don't Worry About Growing Old, It Is A Privilege For Some Of Us.....
When I left my exAH I asked a similar question and I was told when he comes back to me and says the things I have been waiting to hear are said and the things I was waiting to see were scene. I knew in my heart what I wanted from my A, but he alas hasn't worked his program yet and came to me with it. So in the mean time I live my life, I have moved on, I keep putting one foot in front of the other and am making all the changes I can within me. Nothing changes until something changes. So the answer is up to you and the boundaries you set. Only you know what is right for you. Sending you much love and support!
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Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."
"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."
I have moved on, I keep putting one foot in front of the other and am making all the changes I can within me. Nothing changes until something changes.
WOW...I like this.....thats me....putting 1 foot in front of the other...and I know that the only thing I can change is me....how i respond...how i treat me...how I take care of me when the S*** hits the fan, like of late......taking care of me and changing me....putting out good energy in the hope that good energy will come back...what goes around does really come around so I just keep trying to put out good energy, but it has to begin with me............NICE thought, Breaking....
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
You have received GREAT ESH .. something to read would be Getting Them Sober Vol 2 .. Toby really states that an extended amount of sobriety is needed before moving back in and if he wants you back now .. he will when YOU are ready .. it won't be about when HE is ready.
Based upon my own ESH .. there is a very specific dance that happens with my STBAX .. he gets into trouble (I've received the hospital call, this weekend was the call because the kids refused to stay while he was drinking) .. this time I have chosen to take a different stance. This is the 3rd time we've been through this particular deal. When my STBAX is in crisis mode he's willing to do anything for me to fix it and make it all get better .. when it starts getting better he then decides he doesn't want to fix anything between us.
He is absolutely a text book alcoholic in terms of behavior .. he believes what I show him action wise .. he doesn't believe what I say .. who continues to contact someone who has an OP out on them? Someone who clearly doesn't believe that the other person really means what is written. Now I think he probably believes a little differently at this point. He had some very shocking thing happen this weekend that are clearly out of my norm in behavior. ME on the other hand .. I am soooo willing or used to be .. what he said that I wouldn't look at what he was showing me. His actions clearly spoke he was active in the disease and still is for that matter.
This is about YOU .. what do YOU want? He can want the moon and the stars .. it doesn't matter .. this is about YOU. It sounds like you have drawn some really good boundaries .. again .. if he wants you now .. he'll understand why you are not jumping up and down shouting lets get back together right this second.
I can tell you I don't want my STBAX on any level at this point .. he continues to say he wants to be my "friend" .. trust me .. I have a higher class of friends people I can count on and rely on that don't lie to me, and follow through on what they say they will do.
So I will continue to take care of me, and do what is in my best interests and that of the kids.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
When I left the ex A I also left our home and our live and I went back to see him and was also horrified. The ex A never made any attempt at recovery but he could pull on my heart strings in a second. For a long long time I was very focused on what he did, what the price was (it was high homelessness and illness too ) and what I felt about it.
Separating from him physically was the first step, separating from him emotionally was another thing entirely. I don't think I would have heard any maxims about wait it out. There were a lot of loose ends that were there.
I do not know what your ideas are about this separation since the house is yours, the way the house is yours and seemingly his treatment is yours too. I definitely was absolutely over involved with the ex A for a good year after I left him. In so many ways I had to plough through that year in order to get to a place to say that I was willing to let go. Letting go of a home, a way of life, our "things" "our lifestyle" was no easy task.
Sometimes we have to be at it one moment at a time. I dropped by plenty on the ex A. I also went and spent weekends with him at a time. Eventually I got to a place where I set limits because I had my own space. Alcoholics tend to have crisis around them. They make it look like their friends, their health, all this outside stuff but really it isn't the issue is their alcoholism. Some of them do get recovery and some of them don't. Some of them switch addictions they go from one to another. Some of them really do seek sobriety.
None of us leave an alcoholic lightly. We may think we have it all set up the distractions and the tasks ahead. At the same time for me the alcoholic was the person I put at the center of my life. for so many reasons, leaving physically was the beginning of being able to put me at the center of my life rather than someone else. I had to walk through all that chaos to get to that place.
One day at a time you will learn to do what's the next right thing for you. For some of us its one hour at a time. I worried tremendously about the ex A for a long long time. Guess what worrying didn't change him. I know it made me ill. No amount of worrying, trying to persuade him, resenting him, grieving for his self destruction made him stop. He didn't want recovery . He wanted me certainly but it wasn't for a healthy relationship. I am certain the ex A loved me in many different ways. The way an alcoholic "loves" isn't necessarily healthy. These days I want a healthy love rather than a manipulative stew which is what I got with him. Being able to look at the manipulative stew honestly and take it apart was one way that I got to stop being hooked in on so many levels.
Maresie, your story feels very close to how i feel. thank you for sharing.
you are all right. everyone around me is right. I felt frustrated not feeling like anyone "got me"...I realize now that it isn't about getting what I am feeling..it is about waking me up - that maybe what i feel isn't healthy. Maybe waht I *want* isn't healthy..or more likely realistic. He was a liar..he is a liar.
I do still love him...and nothing is going to change that. I am scared for him that he is going to die.....nothing is going to change that....but realizing that it is in his hands to change, to get help...I *understand* that, but it is so scary to just walk away and watch someone destroy themselves.
He has been trying to get me back..acting like he is willing...but he just plain isn't. he isn't. I set my standards...then I let him loosing my grip on them. I spoke to someone today who confirmed that he is still drinking liquor. I lied to myself letting myself believe that he was (1) improving because he was "only drinking beer" (2) allowed myself to believe that he was only drinking beer. Not that I agreed to do anything for him or go home etc. But I allowed it to play with my heart. I allowed myself to have hope in this relationship.
His entire family lives overseas. They don't really speak english and I can barely communicate with them. They have no idea that I even left. At this point I am considering buying a plane ticket at least for his mom, but there is nothing she can do and I am sure it would kill her to see him like this. I certainly don't think her being here would help him. Not sure anything could help him. I am afraid he is just gonna end up dead and they will have never had a chance to say goodbye.
You have a very loving and gracious heart from what I read here. I'm not a fortune teller, so I can't tell you if he will live or if he will die in the short-term. I can say that if you have surrendered your own life into the hands of God as you understand God (Step 3) and if you are asking for knowledge of God's will for you and the power/love you need to carry it out (Step 11), you can trust that clarity will come when the time is right with regard to whether or not buying his Mom a plane ticket is the thing to do now or in the future. Support being sent your way as you sift through the next right thing to do for you. If its right and loving for you, most of the time it is right and loving for the other persons involved - in my experience.
