Help Needed - Al-Anon Family Group

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Help Needed

John · ~*Service Worker*~

My experience has been that if I hold out, past the date or deadline my son' puts on the table, (which is always hard for me) I am amazed at how creative, motivated and solution oriented he can become in his own behalf. It took me a long time to realize that he would never become a advocate for himself, as long as I was filling the position. When I resigned from being the rescuer, the fixer, the bank... he stood on his own and found a way to work out the problem, the crisis, he had gotten himself into.

As you know I being a parent who loves his son, bonded him out of jail just before Christmas.. he ran back to Texas, missing his court date, and the bond was forfeited and I ended up finding him and having him brought back to North Carolina and put back in jail. He has been out for some time now. Two things he now knows... he can't live with me and he can't ask me for money... and to my utter amazement he is doing better than he ever has. Seems like he has become a worthy advocate for himself, and my being the rescuer, the fixer, the bank, was more about me, than it was ever about him.

Let the dates roll by, and see what he does for himself... homeless, nah, it might take him a few days but I bet he will find his own resource for housing if you don't jump in there and fix it for him again.

Without very real, hard consequences, there is nothing that will motivate change. If I kept doing what I've always done, why should he change? That would be insanity working both sides of the street. Today, I'm acting like a parent, but a very sane one. smile (NOTE: I said "acting like") lol

Just my two cents worth.

John

-- Edited by John on Thursday 18th of July 2013 12:21:26 AM

Cathyinaz · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Everyone

I need help!! I talked to my son tonight and he is scared to death about being homeless. His father agreed to store his furniture and he is trying to find a place that will take him in but having a hard time. He hasn't asked for a thing just would like to see me this weekend. NO HE WILL NOT LIVE WITH ME.

But mom is sitting here with the money to pay his rent for a few more months....yes THAT"S what I'm thinking. My poor son.....he just can't be living on the streets.....yes that's what I thinking.

How do you stay strong when it comes to this?

I'm praying really hard about this..... Please God help me let go and please help me not to enable again.

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

((((((((((Cathy)))))))))))))

My beloved A brother drank up his money and failed to payhis storage rent for ALL his tools, equipment, etc, and he called me 3 weeks ago and BEGGED me to "loan" him the $$ to pay his rent....He does pay people back but I said "NO"

he asked me why?? I said "you did this..You get yourself out of this" and as John so aptly said I , too, "resigned" as the fixer...the rescuer...the loan company.....I QUIT

well guess what??? "R" my loving A brother went around town, collecting his receivables, doing extra work, borrowed from a couple of good friends and he GOT his rent....WITHOUT my help

I like what John said about them getting real creative when they have to

as long as you take care of his problems he isn't gonna realize that he HAS a problem...

My neighbor is a good example on a smaller scale....he had nice flowers in front of his house and I would water them b/c he didn't...he drinks....doesn't take care of business , but I love the guy...he is my ace mechanic on my truck and Ipay him for his work

anyway, I would water his flowers and they stayed lovely and nice........one day , I decided to QUIT.....so no watering.........his flowers began to get dry, turn brown....he says to me "hey..my flowers are dying...whats up w/that????" I says "water the suckers and they will look nice again"

He just kinda looked at me but guess what??? he waters his flowers.....If i kept taking care of his responsibilities watering his plants and stuff, he would never know he has a responsibility to take care of his OWN STUFF

its tough...it was hard telling my A brother "NO" they wre getting ready to auction off his tools, equip and such....but ya know???

I didn't cause him to drink......can't control his drinking.........can't cure him.............I am not responsible for ANY of his problems....I am responsible for ME and MINE

tough??? yep......sounds harsh???? yep, maybe........but who did it to themselves?????

AND...if we keep helping , we really do them a disservice.....we rob them of the lessons they need to MAYBE get help.......we rob them of their chances of really facing themselves......Really.....My brother's only chance, both of them , are to take my hands off and let them learn the hardway.....its hard, but its their only hope of being forced into recovery....when life body slams them so hard, they bounce off the pavement, MAYBE they will see they need to get help

HUGSSSS

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

One of the best helps for me from CAL was the pamphlet on Alcoholism - A Merry-Go-Round Named Denial. If you have that pamphlet, you may want to read it and re-read it - especially the part about the wife/mother and ACT II. It helped me get through so much of this stuff every time the disease begged me to help it continue to enable my son to drink.

I don't know what the future holds for your son - I'm not a fortune teller - but, my own experience has been that if I bought my son clothes, he would lose them. If I let him live with me he made life hell. If I'd paid for an apartment, it would have had to be in my name and he would have trashed it with parties and I would have been responsible for the mess. If I let him do work at my house to earn money, he'd do a nice job for a little bit and then not. I "hired" him to refinish a table because he'd been a woodworker before his accident. It cost me more than $200 just in supplies alone and then I paid him on top of it. His wants and needs became a bottomless pit. I learned that the longer I tried to help him - the less he did for himself. The pamphlet came out a little later in our relationship. If I had had it prior to all this, I would have been able to make other choices. I took him to work, appointments, etc. He'd lose his jobs, get crazy in the car, etc. Nothing helped and the disease would always say "Nobody has ever done anything for me or given me a break." Not true.

oldergal · Senior Member

This is what happened to me Cathy the last time I turned my son out. He was living with a buddy, he would call me once in a while and say hello and say he was still alive, but then one day he said he was coming by to see me. I was scared and I prayed a lot. But then I decided to text him and tell him flat out if he was coming over to borrow money to get a place that would not happen. I knew thats what he was coming for, and I honestly did not want to have that dreadful conversation with him face to face. I said it to him very seriously, and I guess he knew I meant it. He never did come by. I think if I had let him come over without telling him I would not lend him money he would have been very angry and I did not want to be around him when that happened. Well as it turned out he dug up a tent somewhere and put it in his buddys yard and lived there for 6 months until it got cold. He husseled up some part time work and eventually lived in a little corner of his buddys place. He later found more work and a very used vehicle. Where I live u can't really be homeless or on the streets the weather is forbidding, and he was too "cool" to go to a shelter. Yes they get creative if u give them a chance. It was a very scary time for me I always projected the worse scenarios. In my mind I gave my son to God, and if that meant death then that is what would happen, not an easy thing to think or do, but I asked myself what were the alternatives, enable him and watch him go insane and or end up in jail, or worse. Every mother and father take a chance when they refuse to enable their adult children, it is very scary and no matter how many people are around you it is solely your decision no one can make it for you. There is support here on this board for sure. I am sorry you have to go through this, please know my thoughts are with you and my prayers too. If you decide not to lend him money, tell him ahead of time so he has time to think about it. I sincerely am in support of you no matter what you decide. Everyone on this board knows how hard it is to challenge these type of situations and no one gives up on anyone. In support Oldergal

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Of course the typical newcomer response to "Yeah, I'd be scared of that too. If I were you, I'd be looking into halfway houses, shelters, and really busting ass to get any kind of job to get the money coming in. We can talk about that but stop freaking out cuz that's not helping." would be:

"Didn't you hear me!!? I said I'm going to be homeless. You don't even care! You are an Ahole and you don't know what it's like!!!" To which I would respond. "Um yes. I do know what it's like to need to stop drinking and start being responsible so badly that my life would totally collapse and fall apart if I didn't. I do know that and understand it perfectly because I lived it. Let's focus on the solution now." That can only happen in AA though.

Can you tell I'm in favor of AA?

**And by default when you let AA be his biggest support and treatment for his alcoholism, that leaves you with you and your alanon program....Ready to focus on healing you again (I just had to add this because THIS IS ALANON and I do believe that's how it works)

-- Edited by pinkchip on Thursday 18th of July 2013 08:42:52 AM

Gaby · Senior Member

My prayers are with you.. I too have an A son. With many prayers he chosed to go to rehab. Recently I posted that rehab kicked him out but with many prayers and him wanting sobriety he called and said what he needed to say to get back in, but when they called me to pick him up I did drive 3 1/2 hours to get him. Home was not an option for him and that I told him when I was driving to get him. He was not asking to come home he was more then willing to go into SLE or another program.. But with his faith and many prayers he is in a good place an that's back in his rehab. I know my son took me serious but it was killing me inside and it shown all over my face that I would not let him be stranded in a different state or would I leave him homeless. But the other option was if he truly wanted sobriety he would put himself in the Salvation Army and stay there or he would have to truly figure himself out, but money or home was not an option. I can truly relate with what you are feeling. We love our children am want to help them and not see the suffer in any way shape or form. With many prayer god will help you with an answer.. I was my sons worst enabler and made life too comfortable for him.. This is why his disease still effects me, but he knows he is doing good and he tells me to go seek god to give me faith in him. I am probably no help to your question but I as a mother that loves her son very much, knows the confusion of what your question. God bless.. We don't need to enable but we shouldn't give up hope on our children..

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

((((Cathy))))...learning to trust the program when I got into recovery after failing miserably trying to control and enable my alcoholic/addict wife I was much more experienced when my alcoholic/addict son came to live with me and pretty much act out in the disease as his step mother did. Like the others have mentioned and you already know...as long as I was there for him he felt free and encouraged to make and follow thru on his drinking/using decisions, thinking and behaviors. I had a quiet talk with him and presented my decisions for my life which didn't include him. He had the opportunity to continue renting the appartment and other minor stuff but I was moving on my own to another personal place. I would not jeapordize my recovery because of his lack or participation in our life. I followed thru and while he had some scary emergencies I allowed him the dignity to find his way thru them as best he could. At times we would visit and talk and share a meal or so and then he would always have to leave and go back to his life as he decided that would be. That is fair...that is honest...that is just. Years later he is still struggling with the affects of the disease...he and his spouse just can't seem to get it and both have been deeply affected by the disease. The solution process they are trying hasn't worked and they keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Yes we have talked and yes a time or two I have attended emergencies because he just doesn't seem to be equipped...we live life with others and sometimes we need them and other times they need us. Tonights meeting was on the first step..."the power of the first step...the power of being powerless". Trust your program...trust your HP...trust your experiences. Keep coming back...(((((Hugs))))) smile

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

First, I applaud your honesty and reaching out and acknowledging your struggle...like an alcoholic struggling with the compulsion to take a drink? If you take the "drink", the relief will be short lived and in marches shame. I appreciate your conflict, as I am having a conflict around rescuing/fixing/enabling. This will give me short term relief, like taking the drink, and then shame. I will not do shame, so I have to stay strong in my program and be attached at the hip to my HP. Carry on with love Cathy; if your son needed a drink, he would figure out how to get it (maybe that is his real motivation underneath the fear of being homeless??). Such a cunning disease for all of us, huh?

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Boundaries boundaries boundaries. If your son was not an alcoholic/addict, I would say it's normal and fine to let him cry on your shoulder. But, knowing what I know about alcoholism - I just know that self-pity is my enemy. I actually have to repeat that as a mantra frequently. "Self-pity is my enemy, self-pity is my enemy." Anyone that endorses or even listens to my self-pity is not helping me at all. Some times I get frustrated and I wanna bitch and complain about life - but my mom is NOT THE ONE to do that to. I can do that to my sponsor and in an AA meeting...even those folks will lovingly tell me something like "Poor me, poor me...Pour me a drink."...and "Get off your pity pot." Hence, the boundary of "Don't come to me with your sob story" although stated more tactfully is often what I needed and still need. I guess the more tactful way is to say "I hear your fears but I can't make it better so lets talk about your plans for how you are going to do the next right thing. I am your biggest cheerleader and I can only support your good choices at this point. I love you and that's my role as your mom." - Obviously you would know what is more authentic to you and your relationship with your son so as to make those words your own Cathy. You get what I mean though? This is not just for him but I'm trying to suggest an interactional style that states your boundaries clearly and sets the tone for not having a dagger plunged in your heart with his horrible sob story and then the consequent attempt at subtle or not so subtle manipulation.

As a totally detached person from your son, my response leans toward "Yeah, I'd be scared of that too. If I were you, I'd be looking into halfway houses, shelters, and really busting ass to get any kind of job to get the money coming in. We can talk about that but stop freaking out cuz that's not helping." That is it - devoid of drama and clear cut. It's time to act in your best interests or suffer. I'm not saying I would be quite that firm as his mom - but maybe. Dunno. That is the type of feedback I got and continue to get from my sponsor and peers in AA. It actually shifted my thinking to stop the self-sabotage train and gear it towards being solution focused. It took a couple years of me dumping my drama out and getting that type of response to finally get some internal coping skills...and yes, faith and prayer were a big part of that cuz I needed to pray and have some faith to get over the hump and just do the next best thing for myself even though it was petrifying at the time. I pray his recovery takes him in that direction. I also pray this part of his story will just become part of his experience strength and hope to share with others later on.

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

I have not been in AA but I like the AA approach. When I worked at a mental health center I had an office close to an addiction counselor who was a rough old guy (seemed that way then anyway, as I was in my 20's). I so enjoyed his loud cussing conversations when he'd be on the phone. He was kind of a role model for me...and I have to remember this is al anon and the approach is different.

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

pinkchip wrote:

To which I would respond. "Um yes. I do know what it's like to need to stop drinking and start being responsible so badly that my life would totally collapse and fall apart if I didn't. I do know that and understand it perfectly because I lived it. Let's focus on the solution now." That can only happen in AA though.
**And by default when you let AA be his biggest support and treatment for his alcoholism, that leaves you with you and your alanon program....Ready to focus on healing you again (I just had to add this because THIS IS ALANON and I do believe that's how it works)

-- Edited by pinkchip on Thursday 18th of July 2013 08:42:52 AM

I SO agree with this....By not enabling my A brothers, makig it CLEAR , yea, you have support, you have that Scaffold as Paula described.....it is in AA

I went to a few open AA meets....quite a few, and those people dont' mess around....They don't let anyting slide past them...If U R not working your program at least what I saw, they call you out.....AND they accept NO BS and no excuses....they are fighting to save their lives...they have no time for bull****.....they just don't....I used to think "wow those people are HARSH" but ya know what???? if u sincerely work the program, they are the best people to be around b/c they will go bollix to the wall for a fellow AA'r......your son's only hope of getting on the (stealing from Paula again) "Scaffold" of life and sobriety and better living is for him to be left to his own devices and he SEES and GOES to AA......

I loved the open meets they used to have here in town, but it stopped for some reason....also on line I found some and OH Yea, those old timers can smell a con a mile away.....but it is (AA) LIFE renewed and resurrected to me.....my A brother says "he doesn't need AA " when I called him out on it I said why don't you just tell me you dont WANT AA???? and he kinda stuttered I called him out on his attempt to BS me...I told him "i am not the one always facing eviction and losing my equip and my tools" and I also told him when he gets sick and tired MAYBE he will realize that help is available, but it wo't be easy....simple but not easy...its gonna require....honesty....humility....openess....willingness to change.....thats a hard one for the A's, but the serious ones can do it....I know.....seen it....

Cathyinaz · ~*Service Worker*~

MAN.......you guys are the best. I'm at work right now and can't take the time to write everything I want to say to you all but I will tonight...

I love you guys........

PS: He did say he has an appointment with a place called cassaz.org for help. I just pray to God he will embrace AA

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

Cathyinaz wrote:
MAN.......you guys are the best. I'm at work right now and can't take the time to write everything I want to say to you all but I will tonight...

I love you guys........

PS: He did say he has an appointment with a place called cassaz.org for help. I just pray to God he will embrace AA

Hey Cathy, all we can do is do our best....let go the rest.....and yea, I HOPE all the A's of you guys and my A's get into AA and / or NA......yea....that would be super....its their choice and by leaving them to fend for themselves certainly increases our chances of them being driven into getting help

AngelicH57 · Senior Member

Cathy, looks like your son is taking responiblity on his own, as long as there are homeless shelters he won't be on the streets. Stay strong and remember if you give him any money he'll use it to drink. {{{Hugs}}}

Cathyinaz · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm lost, I'm scared, I'm worried and my anxiety has ticked up. I know this will pass....I know it will.

My son is pawning stuff so he has some gas and he wants to come for a visit and bring me Nisa. Yes I will take my Kitty grandchild. I just can't let her go to the pound. Will is crying knowing he has to do this but he also knows Nisa will be safe with me. I don't want to see my son cry but yes I will let him and tell him I love him and let him know he will not be alone if he makes the right choices. There is help if he wants it....just HE needs to find it. Yes it's going to be hard but he can do it I KNOW HE CAN DO IT. He has never begged for anything from me and I pray he doesn't start. If he does I will stay strong....I have to.....this is my only choice in the matter. I will force his change in life by my change....good or bad.

I will Let Go and Let God.....I will cry and then pray that this to shall pass someday.....good or bad.

It's hurts...it hurts really bad right now. Why do we have to hurt so much.

My Al-anon tools are a mess......

Sorry

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

What is there to be sorry about? Your son has his higher power and you will have the strength to let them work this out together. (((hugs)))

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

Cathyinaz wrote:
I'm lost, I'm scared, I'm worried and my anxiety has ticked up. I know this will pass....I know it will.
My son is pawning stuff so he has some gas and he wants to come for a visit and bring me Nisa. Yes I will take my Kitty grandchild. I just can't let her go to the pound. I will force his change in life by my change....good or bad.
I will Let Go and Let God.....I will cry and then pray that this to shall pass someday.....good or bad.
It's hurts...it hurts really bad right now. Why do we have to hurt so much.
My Al-anon tools are a mess......
Sorry

((((((((((((((Cathy)))))))))))) I soo wish I could just wave a wand and brush your pain away......I think it is great, taking kitty Nisa in...I would do that in a heartbeat.....If I were in your shoes, I would do the exact same thing....that kitty needs 2 be safe......I think crying is a good thing to let go of some of the load...I may later on do the same thing...b/c I have been down lately.....and hon it will pass, that much I can tell U , one guarantee about life is that it changes.....so it will pass......and i know it hurts....sooo sorry , and yea, I ask too....Why is their so much sorrow here??? it is one of the reasons why I have a prob. trusting in any God....and your alanon tools are not a mess....Look at the good you have done....U stood up for you...U are doing the tough love to help him in the end....you are fighting the good fight...........I am cheering for ya......

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Sweet One, ok If you do anything, you are saying I know you cannot do it yourself.

If you allow him the dignity figure it out, you are saying I am proud of you and I know you can do it.

simple as that honey. Not so simple to believe it. You know it is true, but allow him to figure it out, then you will believe it.

You are doing fine! He can find shelters and whatever. He has to hit a place where he is so miserable he can find out what he can do to make it better.

Take a breath, get involved in a book, a movie, call a friend and go eat dinner and cheesecake. The cheesecake is for me...

hugs,debilyn who had to learn to stop trying to be mommy to her son, was making him crazy! lol

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

(((Cathy))) I understand this so much. I hope you can get to a meeting somewhere tonight and spend some time with friends afterwards? If not, I know that you will get through this time, hard as it is, because you have been doing it.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

((((Cathy))))

I so understand your sadness and pain.

In my thoughts and prayers

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

If your tool box is a mess and they are laying all over the place use ours for now and keep coming back. Also watch the event unfold...the drama and the struggle because if there is one thing an alcoholic and an addict are (from my experience) is a survivor. They have survivor skills that are deep whether it is looking for that drink or drug to clinging to a life the program gives them. Stay in the palms of your HP...Your HP holds both of you.

(((((hugs))))) smile

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.