The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Hi, please share your opinions. I am still new to this and dont know al the answers. I know I need to take care of my own recovery, but some questions come up about the AH as we go.
He is in Mexico with his A friend for a week, the excuse to go is to "take care of the house", we are building a house over there, but the truth is to go on a fun trip and drink. Every time he goes, he promises to call, text, etc. But once there, the best is I get one short text a day or nothing, allthough he has his phone with him and a international plan. I knew it would be the same this time and I am not stressing out as i would before.
But still, my question is. What is the best way to approach this with A? We had to pay extra money for international plan which he is not using, he didnt call and talk to children for a week, doesnt care how we r doing, lied again, etc. I know this is a desease, but what should I tell him? Do I need to ignore it or just state something and leave the room?
Also when he left, he asked me to delete his spam email once a day, because he wont have access to internet this week. He asked to take his car to wash if i can and he asked to return somethings to the store which he bought while staying home drinking. We have the same bank account, so if he doesnt return things on time, it will affect both of us, he has a nice car and usually doesnt let me drive it because i may crash or scratch it, but now he said I can take it once. I understand his reasoning for email cleanup, but still doesn't feel right. Does it look like i am supporting his drinking if I go to return items to the store for him, wash his car and clean his emails? By putting this in writing, i think i know the answer already, but would like to hear your thoughts))
Thanks everyone for reading and responding!
-- Edited by Venera on Tuesday 2nd of July 2013 08:26:42 AM
Oh, my. I'm so glad you're coming to MIP and Al-Anon face to face meetings, too? How much is he paying you to wash his car, clean his e-mails, return things to the store? You're his wife. Not his maid or employee. As far as the finances go, I can understand your taking things back so your credit isn't affected. I don't know what your financial situation is but do wonder if you might want to check to see if there is anyway you can separate your finances from his? If not, you might want to put that on your goal list and work towards doing that? If you gave your word to him before he left that you'd do those things, for your own self-respect, maybe doing it is something that will help you do what you say you are going to do, but you might also want to put that on your goal list? Looking at why you agree to do things that a wife might do if the husband does his part, too, but in your case to this reader's mindset appears to be waiting on him as a maid or employee might do (and they get paid for it). And then working towards not giving so much of yourself to doing things for him that don't really need to be done?
I am a woman who has loved too much in the past. I was doing the best I could at the time. When I knew better, I did less. And I probably wouldn't have known better if I didn't get involved with Al Anon, CODA, and other helps to learning how to treat myself differently. You are on the right path, Venera, by asking questions and taking stock of reality as it is for you and sorting out what you need to keep and what you need to say goodbye to when you're ready. All of your coping mechanisms served you well enough to get you here today and now you're ready for new ones.
Best of luck to you as you continue to grow and to heal by working the program and spending time with people who can guide you. Other posters will weigh in on this maybe differently than I with more wisdom for you than I have. Please remember that our suggestions and opinions are not intended to be anything but a take what you like and leave the rest type of thing. We are all growing and learning with our own stories, strength, hope and experiences. The beauty of this program is that you get to choose what fits you for now. (((Venera)))
I knew I would get that type of responce)) No, I didn't promise him to do all those things, I told him I will see if i have time. So, definatly, not going to do it! Got that out of my way))
It is hard sometimes to draw a line of what we can help with and what not. My AH usually has his 1 week of fun every two months, the rest of the time he is functional, he holds his job and actually has been promoted a couple of time lately, he exsercizes a lot, helps with the house, buit a house in Mexico, etc So he is actually a supportive husband for the most part, he does take care of the kids, etc But because of all the achievements he doesn't see the harm from his drinking, because he is doing all other things and to me it is hard to point anything, because he usually has an excuse. He doesnt go to bars alone, doesnt lose his job, doesnt hurt us physically, etc. All I cant tell him is that he is destroying his health (but he chacked his blood and it was good), he is unavalable mentally for a week evry other month (but he will say that some people travel a lot, etc), he doesn't call/text (and he will appologize, but he will say there was nothing to worry, etc)....
I agree with all these shares....separate finances, no enabling him by taking care of responsibilities that HE should take care of as for confronting it...I would when I confront someone keep the focus on me, and my wishes, needs, intentions, and what I am going to do to take care of me..
like running his errands, I would say I don't have time or don't want to if that is how I feel.....No matter what, I always keep the focus on me and and how i need to do such and such...how i feel when such and such is done to me and what I will do if it persists.....
basically the above posters said what I was thinking..
PEASE
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
I've been around for a while and still the disease is cunning powerful and baffling. I always go back to my basic lessons which I got when I first got past the door to Al-Anon and then I go to the rocket science lessons when the disease is making an extra effort to wreck my peace of mind and serenitry. Basic lesson regarding making decisions about what to do?....Decide on the consequence I want first and then do the thing to get it. Thank HP for sponsorship...!! (((((hugs))))
Another point I was thinking...When you confront him, how does he react??? is there chance he will "go off on you???" verbal outburst can lead to physical.....to confront or not to confront depends on what his temper is like....sometimes just quietly taking care of yourself and not saying anything provocative is the best thing....You know him, we don't....
So please be careful and I like what Jerry says...."Decide on the consequence I want first and then do the thing to get it. ".......and doing the thing to get it , the how you do it, depends on how safe or unsafe HE is....
Take care
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Thank you! He reacts ok if I talk to him when he is sober and times passed. We actually have good conversations and he admits things and allthough tries to explain why he did it, he is truly (it looks like) trying to fix it. The problem is that when he is drunk, he is not he and things happen.
I dont know how to create concequenses, no idea in my situation. I am not going to run his errands while he is drinking, that shouldnt be a problem. But the fact that he doesn't call or text, that he is drinking again and wasting his health, is not directly hurting me, so not sure what to do here.
Generally consequences create themselves. It sounds as if it would be realistic to stop expecting him to call or text while he's away. Next time, if he says, "Hey, I'll call you every day," you can say something like, "That's a nice thought. You didn't do it last time so I won't expect it, but if you get to it, it'll be nice to hear from you." (Assuming that's true.)
If he's not following through on his promises, that would certainly be a cue to me not to bother going the extra mile for him. I can see why you'd be mad that he makes alll these promises and then doesn't follow through. Unfortunately that comes with the territory of being an alcoholic. Not that that means you shouldn't find it exasperating. But I think we all have to figure out how much is merely disappointing and where the level of disappointment starts being a deal-breaker. Because disappointment is unfortunately part of the package when we "sign up" for staying with an alcoholic. Again, not to say that this behavior is okay.
Mattie, that is actually kind of what i told him)) And still he would act as if he was going to call me every day. it really used to be a problem before when he had no phone and he would actually have to go somewhere else to call me, so he would always find an excuse. Nowdays it is very simple to use cellphone, and he actually did call me the first day when he was sober. But now I can tell he is no longer sober, so I don't expect him to call/ text
I know, especially with an alkie, that expectations re: the alkie are premeditated resentments......I lived with lies, broken promises, justifications of wrong behaviour, good intentions but no follow through....I just began expecting nothing from the A and took care of myself....now, with recovery, I wold have "taken care of me" a lot faster, but b4 recovery I would put up with it till I just HAD it then I wold "blow" and I think it was kinda natural in that when someone breaks their word to me, I just never expected them to keep it afterwards, like they would promise me and I would say "oh yea" and in my head I am saying, yea, lets see...........so that built in "reservations about believing people" helped me a lot re: the resentments, and now, lie to me once and its over as far as my trusting in them.....and if i cannot trust them, adn this is just MY feelings....once the trust is broken, I lose interest....
I have noticed I have zero tolerance for lies, broken promises (any dishonesty) abuse and now substance abuse....My A brother who is my buddy is a gr8 guy.....But would I room mate w/him??? NO....would I recommend him to one of my girlfriends???? NO....I love him, but I know what he is....I know hes an alcoholic and that puts huge limits on just how close one can get and how much one can trust....
I guess thats why I don't get angry very much w/him b/c I don't have any expectations on him.......I know his limitations and I can deal b/c he is NOT a mate he is just my brother...
I can feel for anyone who is an addict...But I don't have to and don't want to have an intimate partnership with them of any kind...Like love them w/a whole lot of boundaries and never ever put myself in a position where I got to rely on one......
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
I agree with you neshema. I wish i was in a position i could leave, but not at this time. I do still have to share the whole household with him, I wish I could figure that out at least after the baby is born.
My problem is that i am ready to do anything, even leave while he is drinking, but once it is back to normal, i am becoming weak, I forgive him, I understand it is is a sickness and he always has a good excuse for everything.
Like last week he drunk and missed one week of work, but somehow he managed and lied at work, that he didnt even lose his vacation, nobody noticed (according to him) that he was away. This week he is drinking in Mexico (the purpose of the trip was to check on the house show his presence to the neighbors that the house is not abandon and take care of a few things, which i am sure he will. So now again, the only thing i can confront him with is not calling/texting and drinking. He will appologize, he will say he will try to change, etc and we will go on with our lives. I am not sure which boundaries to set up here, because so far he is only hurting himself. But I am not happy and I cant rely on him, but stil i am not in a position to leave him. It will be just to hard being pregnant, going thru separation, dealing with kids and visitations, etc.. I guess i can hang with him untill after maternity leave, but being in the same house makes me weak on the good days and I can't be treating him like a roommate, i start treating him nice like a husband, because when he is sober he is good) so confusing, I am getting comfortable and adjusting to this and not ready to make any changes.
((((Venera)))) I am so sorry you are in this spot...and being pregnant, I didn't see that and yea, I can see why you would need to "hang on" for a while, anyway., I am so sorry you are not happy, we all deserve to be happy, but we gotta make ourselves happy...happy comes from inside of me, not depending on another to make me happy, however, that said, That does not mean I am gonna want to be around a person who is miserable to be around....
living with an alkie is tough at best....as to him "changing" I would not count on it....What I would do, if I cannot leave right a way, is to keep working on me, taking care of me, coming to accept that I can never control him or change him or cure him, I can only change ME....
I totally relate to living in the same house and hes good and you want to make it work, its natural....
Only you know what is the best thing to do for you and your situation, I urge you to keep working your program and keep connecting to yourself and keep working on strengthening and helping you...Your answers will come when its right...right now you need to take care of you and not just the mind, but your body , too, with the baby coming...
And if you are not ready to make changes, then DONT.....I always say "when in doubt----WAIT" work on me, look for the signs and work the program....you CAN make yourself at least content by taking good care of you....Please keep coming back and I would toss the expectations re: the AH...I would , when he says "i'll call you" just say "ok" and let it GO....no expectations, just focus on your good care and that precious life you are carrying inside of you
Peace...and please know that you are not alone.....We may be online, here, but I see the caring community that this is.......take care
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
It is so hard to detach while living together, i really have no tools in my box of how to act when we are together. When he is drinking he is not around, I have not talked to him for 5 days, before that he was drinking in the hotel, so far this is the longest time he has been out drinking. I am just so tired and frastruated. I can't treat him as a normal person when he is sober, because i know it is temprorary and i really dont want any punishment from me for what he did. I know i will just be weak again and go back to our routing when he returns and thats what i am afraid of. Even now with my mom home and kids i couldnt find time for online or f2f mtg, never attended one. Yesterday i finally got time to connect while everyone was sleeping at 10pm, but the meeting was over. I am hoping to get more time when AH comes back home, but at the same time i am worried i will get compfortable again and dont do it. I may have to go pick them up form the airpoport on Saturday, but he has not called me or texted, so i feel i shouldnt bother at all, allthough i know the time and flight. If I dont go, then my friend (his friend's wife would have to go again, but she took them there, so I guess it is not fair to her), but my feeling is to just ignore him the same and not go, let him get a taxi. I am just worried who knows at what condition he will return and if he is upset that i didnt pick him up, what will he do - who knows. I really dont want to deal with his drinking at home and scenes infront of kids and my mom and neighbors, it hasnt happened before infront of neighbors and almost happened infront of my mom, but this is the longest time he has been drinking and to be honest I dont know how his body will react.
I have been doing good things for myself every day, enjoying time with kids, sleeping well at night, praying, but when i get to work, i feel bad, we are used to communicate daily by phone/text, andnow it has been silence for 2 weeks, which is just killing me. I am also very tired physically, i have not had any break this year, just work and house, while he had 5 weeks to himself, but i am the one who is pregnant, so it make me really sad.
My mom offered to stay with kids and me and my AH go alone for a weekend somewhere, it is our anniversary coming too, but I dont want to deal with ocasional beer or a 6pack in the room, etc and also i dont want him to have more vacation, he had enough. I was thinking about going with the girls, but everybody is traveling and hard to make a group. Going alone doesnt sound fun at all. All i want is just some rest.
-- Edited by Venera on Wednesday 3rd of July 2013 09:00:02 AM
Good that you are giving yourself time to center yourself and think through your next step. In one of our Conference Approved Meditation books, we're cautioned about anger by the fact that anger is one letter short of (d)anger. (Courage to Change) Yes, telling the whole world he's an alcoholic and divorcing him are options for you to act out, but its wise for you to see that maybe those two options may be ones you'd like to put on hold until you've attended Al-Anon meetings for at least six months? Until then, you have MIP, on-line meetings, and various books that have been suggested by our members and can be found at Al-Anon's website. When I'm ready to kick someone or something to the curb, it is normally because I'm afraid of something (usually not being sure I can handle myself well in a new situation or circumstance). If I look at my fears by asking what am I afraid of and waiting for the answer, then I can work on the fears and come up with an action that is sane and reasonable and do-able for me. If I don't wait and act - except in a crisis situation like a life/death thing - I usually end up having to make an amend for it after doing what I could have done when I felt the surge of anger roaring up from within me. Anger is an emotion that hides many feelings. If I get in touch with my fears and my feelings before I act, I generally don't have to make an amend and feel peaceful inside. I know you're tired. I know you're Mom's visiting. I know you have small children. Yet - Al-Anon meetings can be the best place for you to feel some relief and get some ideas on conservative steps you can take to take care of yourself and your children that you might need right now? Lots of support!!!!
-- Edited by grateful2be on Wednesday 3rd of July 2013 01:22:31 PM
My AH called finanlly after 4 days of not calling - he he definatly was drunk on the phone. I am just so mad now! I am ready to let the whole world know that he is an alcogolic, ready to divorce him now. I guess it is better to calm down first and wait a little when my brain is working normally.
My first thought was why confront him? It is the word confront that I am questioning. Having a logical discussion with someone is one thing and confronting is another. Not knowing your "A", I don't know if there are times when you are able to have a rational discussion with him or not. When he's drinking or drunk is for sure not the time. Might as well talk to a wall in that case.
The other thing I would ask myself before I attempted to talk to my "A" is what are my motives behind talking to him. For example, am I seeking validation about his not keeping in contact? Am I wanting to tell him that the kids miss him and I dislike being the one to comfort them when he isn't talking to them. (All things I have wanted to say to my "A" in the past) I learned that I was not able to get the kind of validation from my "A" that I wanted, so I got it elsewhere, like this board, the meeting room, calling someone in program and my F2F meetings.
There were times in the past that my "A" and I had things set up that cost us money that really weren't working for us. So I would make a suggestion about an alternate way of doing things. Maybe getting a pay as you go phone for when he is out of the country or something else instead of getting mad at him for not calling the kids or me when he was in Canada on his way to Alaska for example. Then once he was in the middle of the ocean in Alaska I knew the only way to contact me was by a sattellite radio phone that was really expensive for just even a few minutes of a call, I knew I wouldn't hear from him until he docked again.
The finances are a biggie. I feel I was blessed that I was the primary bread winner when I was with my "A" that I didn't have him connected to my bank account. That didn't mean that he didn't cause havoc on our finances. It was just limited.
There's a page in one of the daily readers about a man sitting under a tree and getting mad at a pigeon for pooping on him while he was under the tree. He got mad at the pigeon for doing what pigeons do. Then the page went on to relate the experience to getting mad at an alcoholic for doing what an alcoholic does. I truly believe that my "A" never set out thinking I am going to get drunk and/or drug to really hurt my family and really upset my wife. I believe he was just doing what someone with the disease of addiction does. So when I was hurting I looked at what I could control, not him, but me. I could sit around a feel miserable and let the kids feed off that, I could isolate and allow myself to feel lonely, I could feed the anger and hurt towards him or I could call an alanon friend, I could go to a meeting, I could post here, I could take the kids to the park or go for a walk, I could do something to change me and how I was feeling and reacting to something that was completely out of my hands. I got so tired of the powerlessness over his disease that I actively looked for things I had power and choice over.
As for those things he asked you to do... if I was in your situation (once again how I would act with my "A") I would tell him that his email would still be there when he got back, I wouldn't want to risk causing harm to his car because those are things that he can easily do for himself that wouldn't effect me or the kids. Taking that item back to the store, I more than likely would take it back because while that is something he can do for himself the consequences of it not happening would have an effect on our children. When his disease got really bad that was the line I drew in the sand, I would shield our children anyway I could because I picked him, they didn't.
Keep coming back. There is validation, love and support here.
Yours in recovery,
Mandy
__________________
"We are not punished for our unforgiveness, we are punished by it" Jim Stovall
My AH called finanlly after 4 days of not calling - he he definatly was drunk on the phone. I am just so mad now! I am ready to let the whole world know that he is an alcogolic, ready to divorce him now. I guess it is better to calm down first and wait a little when my brain is working normally.
Good thinking....I always when really emotional.....back up....think....wait till my brain is not racing and RESPOND over reacting......
You will know what to do and when to do it...Meantime??? I URGE you to keep working your program...the more confidence you gain in you and the more you grow to really love yourself, the better your decisions will be and thus the better your life, you can make it be.....
Vent here if ya need to.......Vent it out so you can settle down and decide based on fact and logic what to do................
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!