"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

PattyS · Newbie

Need an opinion- very angry at 21 year old in recovery

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks for your trust in asking for feedback. Well...uhm...I understand that you are angry and you are angry because he quit his job and didn't have another one. But, considering the fact you are providing for him while he is in school fulltime, I don't see that you are financially dependent on his contribution to household finances? Could it be you are angry because 1. He disobeyed you? 2. You fear the future and his "no job" if he doesn't get one and the position you'll be put into as his Mom?

I have to say, I wasn't an alcoholic at his age and most of what I did I did to experience life apart from what my parents wanted me to do. I saw myself at 21 to be of age and capable of making my own choices without parental control. I didn't do things to hurt or anger my parents. I did things because I was 21, on my own, and trying to find my own way in life.

Although your son is living with you, he is an adult. He can get financial help to pay for his own college and he can get a job to supplement his income. He's going to continue to make choices you aren't going to agree with because you have years of experience on him that you gained from finding your own way. If his choices are going to cause you tons of angst if he lives under your roof, then maybe the healthiest thing for all of you is to help your son transition from your home to a place of his own and paying for college on his own? Not as a punishment, but as a way of freeing yourself from responsibility for your son and handing that responsibility over to him? A year sobriety is no guarantee that he'll stay sober, but trying to make him do what you think is best (even if it might be best) won't keep him sober either.

As a Mom, I know its hard to let go of our kids - especially when they've made some really bad choices in the past - but, unless we let go of them - with or without alcoholism - they never do get to grow up. And yes, my kids are addicts/alcoholics.

I do hope you get involved with Alanon if you aren't already and if you are, maybe upping your meetings for awhile will help you gain some peace?

-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 18th of June 2013 05:04:03 PM

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks for the additional info on your son's living arrangements. I'm glad you found an answer right for you to employ now with Mattie's share. I hope you continue to join us on the board, on-line meetings, and face2face meetings, too. In some ways, though not alcoholic, I am like your son as you describe him. My Mom's anger hurt me more than it helped me and her harsh words - and there were a lot of them - made it impossible for me to feel totally safe in her presence or to enjoy many relaxed times with her as much as I wanted that kind of relationship with her. Until her dying day, when I was almost 49 years old, my Mom was mad at me about something she thought was "dumb." It didn't matter if it was something I thought, believed, felt, did or didn't do about my own life - she was angry. She was a complicated woman with much wisdom, creativity, skills and many, many credits to her name to include raising 10 children to be independent, successful and hard working people - several who are functional alcoholics. I have all the respect in the world for my Mom and I also grieve the reality I never felt safe enough to be fully me in her presence without her harsh anger aimed at me personally.

I've done the same in relationship to my own children at times and I've regretted it. Not feeling angry or scared. But directing it at them when the real issue was not them but what I expected from them or feared for them. Maybe this isn't true in your case or in your son's case, but I could hear my young self in him as you shared what he said to you although I wasn't ever strong enough to say it aloud to my Mom. Much support as you continue recovery with the rest of us who are learning and sharing honestly together. It's not easy to be a Mom with a recovering son.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 18th of June 2013 07:12:50 PM

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

Do you have a meeting? (I mean a face-to-face Al-Anon meeting.) We all know that the stress of dealing with alcoholics and addicts is so great that we get pulled into our own anxiety, chaos, and distorted thoughts. It sounds as if you have some good awareness there because you've come here to vent and get perspective and see what needs to be done. Perspective is so helpful to our own serenity.

I know how nail-biting it can be to watch someone in recovery, and how we're used to the terrible feeling of "I see the right way of doing things, and my loved one is doing the wrong way."

I was never an alcoholic, but at 21 -- heck, even at 31 -- I was making lots of silly choices my parents wouldn't have approved of. It was part of my finding my way in the world and learning to handle myself. Boy, I remember losing a couple of airlines tickets my parents had paid for (back when they were paper tickets and if you lost them you were out hundreds of dollars). I remember because the consequences were so bad -- meaning that I finally realized I had to keep better track of my stuff because I had just let myself in for hundreds of dollars of loss. My parents paid for the original tickets but they didn't pay for the replacements. So I remember it to this day -- better than I would have remembered if they hadn't let me make the mistake.

It sounds to me as if your instincts are right on, in that your son is responsible for a certain part of his financial support, whatever he chooses. So if he chooses to quit one job and the next one doesn't come through as he had hoped, he's still responsible for that money (or for not eating, having to walk to class instead of driving, or whatever). I think probably those consequences will be more of a lesson to him than what his parents tell him. I'm sure we can all remember our parents telling us lots of stuff that made us roll our eyes, however valuable that advice was! That's just part of learning to stand on our own.

I think if I were in your shoes I would just say calmly, "Well, that wasn't the way I hoped you'd do it, but I hope it works out for you. Let us know how it goes." That's how people learn to stand on their own feet -- by making independent decisions, some of which work out, some of which don't. The ones that don't may be even more valuable than the ones that do. But he's doing what adults do -- thinking for himself -- one could argue that that's to be celebrated. He's fledging wings and getting ready to take flight. It sounds as if he's come a huge long way and there's so much to be grateful for. And here he is aiming towards being independent. That's what we want for all of them, isn't it?

What I'm also seeing is a whole lot of fear on your part. Boy, I'm sure we can all identify with that. Dealing with alcoholics is all about getting a handle on the fear. And dealing with the feelings that we're the only ones in the equation thinking responsibly. It takes some adjustment to start handing over the decision-making and to manage our fear. It sounds as if you have much less to fear now than you've had in many years. But it also sounds as if some more healing would be good.

I know it sounds counterintuitive, but I wouldn't do a darn thing to "punish" your son for trying out his wings. If he made a bad decision, life will provide the feedback. And how great that he wants to go to the AA conference. So many of us yearn for the day when our loved ones will want to do something like that. Maybe you could just say "This is scary for me" and give your son a hug?

As always, take what you like and leave the rest. I hope you'll find a good meeting to work on all the issues that will come up, and that you'll keep coming back.

PattyS · Newbie

Thank you Mattie for the insight and wisdom. I agree that fear can be overwhelming. I think that is where some of my concerns are coming from. Your advice seems spot on and I will definitely heed it. It is difficult to separate the insane behavior that went with his addiction with the normal poor judgement that can come with being a 21 year old young man. I think there is a part of me that feels like it is owed to me that he is "perfect" now after all he put his father and I through. I know that is crazy but I can't help but feel like that .

I think your suggestion on what to say to him is just right and I will probably use it verbatim if you don't mind. He is doing so well, I think I am absolutely terrified of every going back to where we were. I think I thought I was MUCH farther along in MY recovery than I am. I have not been going to Alanon meetings. I felt like he had tackled his addiction and we were moving on but oh how quickly those old feelings of fear, anxiety, worry, anger, etc...come back whether this justified it or not. Thank you for the reminder that this is ongoing and I probably still have a LONG way to go.

I appreciate your thoughts on this...much appreciated! And I will come back!

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

Sounds to me like you have a lot to be thankful for, including a son who is actively engaged in his program of recovery.

I love the comment Mattie made:

If he made a bad decision, life will provide the feedback

To be honest, it's way too early to know if his decision is a good or bad one...

I hope you can be proud of your son, and the life he is trying to forge for himself.... I dare to say that there are probably a lot of parents - of active alcholic/addicts - who would give their eye teeth to switch spots with you right now - at least your son IS choosing recovery.

Food for thought

Tom

PattyS · Newbie

Thank you to grateful and Tom...really appreciate the honest feedback. We do have alot to be grateful for and I am so thankful for where my son is today. My son does not live with us anymore...hasn't since he left for college at 18. He lives about 4 hours away in a large city where he went to sober living in and stayed. He has a large recovery community there that we are very thankful for. As I said in my first post, we are so very proud of our son. He is a good man and a good son and is doing many great things with his life now.

I am struggling here because I am just a mad mom who is angry at her son for making what she considers to be a poor decision. Parents are allowed to get angry at their young adult children when they do "dumb" things even through we know they are all going to do "dumb" things. Where it gets confusing is that if my son had never been an addict and made this same decision, we would have still been angry and I'm sure we would have verbalized that to him. Nobody would have questioned that. It would have been expected. But when you add addiction and recovery to it, I feel like you are stifled as a parent for providing basic parenting because we should just be happy they are sober. I AM SOOO happy he is sober. I am beyond grateful to everyone and everything that helped him get to this point. I just feel like with recovery, comes the inability to say anything "harsh" to our kids as we should just be happy they are sober. Is this forever? I'm struggling with this today.

I think Mattie said it well. I am just going to let him know that it is not how I hoped he would handle it and that I hope it works out for him. We will not give him any additional money other than what we had already agreed upon based on his current unemployment status. We will continue to encourage the good things. I'm sure we will still support the trip to the AA conference in Pheonix as I recognize this will be an amazing opportunity for him to continue to grow in his recovery and I don't want to do anything to hinder that.

Being a parent is hard...I appreciate all of your thoughts very much.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

In short - I wanted a medal for handling things like a grown up for about the first 2 years of sobriety. It settled down after that and ideally it will for him too.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

On top of that you are fearful about how your husband will handle it when he finds out...caught in the middle? Isn't it super to have these people to listen and give feedback? Everyone has had similar experiences including what you just did...reach out to some one else and cry for help. Your post raises so many memories of when I wore those shoes myself and walked thru the jungle of expectations of my (so many) alcoholics and alcoholic/addicts and all of the angry and rageful hours I spent when I perceived they were not doing it as it must be done even when at times I didn't know how it must be done myself. I could not read the future and I did fortune tell alot with most often declaring death and doom to be the outcome. I did want to see and hear happiness and balance and only projected negativity and and craziness into those relationships. Of the many things I learned in Al-Anon one of the best and simplest was "no one wins the battle of wits with the alcoholic". God the time and effort I spent in learning this reality and the pleasure I received when I finally "got it" and turned the control of my alcoholic/addicts life back over to her. I did the same for my 21 year old son who is now 47 and has just made the personal decision to dismantle his life and scatter his family to the four corners of the planet. He doesn't drink or use like he use to and then made the decision not to practice the program of recovery his Dad (me) and Step-mother do. I turned him over at the age of 21...told him he was loved and welcomed to come back as long as he kept remembering that he could not stay beyond my boundaries. Love him....yes. Need him....no. The boundary still exists. I know how to keep and addict using and an alcoholic drinking and I know how to interfere in the lives of people who quit when I interfere.

He didn't ask you when and how to drink and use did he? He knew what sober vs drunk were? He arrived at the doors of rehab and sober living under his own power and knew why he was there and why he needed to be? If he attempts to have you believe that he is recoverying for you or that he has had to do something more special or dramatic than other recovering alcoholics and addicts it's self centered drama and a bad show.. As a sponsor of men in recovery self responsibility is one of the major lessons we consistently work at. I will not be used by my own choice and I don't fool around with manipulations when my serenity and sobriety is at stake. The last time a sponsee attempted this with me was on Sunday morning and it scared him because his support left him. It's okay to pull your support. That provides him with an opportunity to be responsible to meet his own needs. Conventions are always nice social events and getting to them is a measurement of our self responsibility and determination. In short it is he that needs to cut you and Dad loose not the other way around. He's making choices and earning consequences.

It sounds like you don't like having the emotion anger...that it is toxic and causes sickness and pain. I use to feel the same way until an early sponsor in Al-Anon taught me "the opposites". He said if you don't like feeling those negative things do the opposite and feel the positive stuff. That sounded so much like rocket science that I ask him so what is the opposite of anger/rage...He told me it was Acceptance; just of the fact that things happen with out my notice and approval and that I don't have to react to things happening...I can just accept they do and keep walking. It's not about the morality of the thing at all; it's just about the fact and moving on.

The suggestion to attend face to face Al-Anon Family Group members is best from our experiences. Women and Men, Mothers and Fathers, wives and husbands and everyone affected by someone elses drinking or using regardless of whether they still are or not.

I'm glad you found this board and I'm even more glad you already got the suggestion. The hotline number is in the white pages of your local telephone book. Call that number and find the places and times we get to gether in mutal support in your area and keep coming back here also.

(((((hugs))))) smile

kris1109 · Newbie

Patty,

Thank you for putting this question out there. I have an addict/alcoholic partner who relapsed about 4 years ago and only very recently went into recovery. As tough as this has been, we have an 11 year old, and I realize as a parent that dealing with this disease with your child has to have been devastating.

I am happy that my partner is devoting himself to recovery, but I am angry at what he's put our family through, and I am hurt by all that has transpired. His deciding to get clean is not going to erase those feelings, nor will it erase feelings that will come up in the future. Being happy about our loved ones getting clean and sober does not erase our feelings that may not be so happy! It is possible to both be thrilled about his recovery, and yet troubled by some of his decisions as his parent. Your son may continue to use the 'you should just be happy' card for some time to come. Your son may not understand your feelings. He may not agree with them. He will make his own decisions regardless of them. He will also learn from his decisions.

I am new at this, and right now am working at turning the focus away from my A and back to myself. It is not comfortable. It goes against the way I have lived my life for as long as I can remember. The concepts of detaching from others, of not accepting responsibility for their decisions, of letting go of trying to control their behaviors don't come quickly. How can you take care of yourself during these times? Rather than waiting for your son to stop using the 'you should just be happy' card, how can you "let go and let God" even if he continues to use it? Is there a way to respond to your son in a way that is loving, while still acknowledging YOUR feelings and respecting YOUR boundaries?

For me, anger is a sign that I am starting to get too wrapped up in my A's feelings, decisions, wants, needs, etc. It is a sign that I am forgetting that I can't control his actions. It's a scary thing to let go of that and to accept that I really am powerless. I forget that frequently and am thankful for Al-Anon being there to remind me. Hang in there - and take care of you! These things take a lot of practice and a lot of support. I echo what others say about face-to-face meetings - they are amazing. You'll find a world of people who get it, and can help and support you in your journey.

Kris

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Patty something you said has me concerned. No one tackles their addiction. The disease is no curable. He is an addict, always will be an addict. Will need to stay on program to not use, use AA skills or be white knuckling not to use.

One thing about boundaries, you made the boundary, no quitting etc. but you had no consequence in place.

I also agree we enable our adult kids by doing for them, what they can do for themselves. When we do too much, we take away their drive and power to do it on their own.

Why shouldn't he quit his job? He has you guys doing for him! If he was on his own or even if you did not give him money I bet he would not have let this job go before he had another.

BUT nevertheless he is actually doing some good things as far as his progress. His sobriety is very young. Plus the fact so is he. He has lots of maturity to catch up on. When a person uses they do not mature or learn anything. I don't know how long he used, but how old was he when he started? His maturing stopped there. So he is the age now he started using.

For him to be doing some pretty positive things is great.

Now for me, i concentrate on the positive stuff. Since you did not have a consequence, then maybe saying, hey we agreed you would not change jobs till you had another! It's great you have been looking for another one though.

He has to learn to make his own choices, and feel the consequences of those choices. No way would I take away his trip. That was not a consequence.

Its all a learning process. When I taught my students I never looked at the bad grades on there eval cards, never. They would always say, what about the d's and f's? I would say well to me it says you have some more things to learn.

Negative never brings anyone up. If he has a choice, do what he is suppose to, or the consequence it is on him, he made the choice.

You guys are on the right track. He is fortunate to have you.

Really he is right, and he is asking you to focus on his good. He needs that for encouragement. Possibly next time, make a clear consequence. What are the rules in your house?

He has and is making great strides.....I would make sure to have consequences if things go sour. So he knows no working at all, he leaves. Then he gets shown the door to figure it out for himself.

good share! debilyn

PattyS · Newbie

Thanks again for all of the thoughts on our situation. I had a good talk with my son yesterday and things are much better. We had a good heart to heart and he acknowledged that he made a poor decision and regretted it. He also acknowledged that some old thinking patterns had surfaced during the days he was making this decision and he has spent time with his sponsor working on this. I felt much better that he had noticed that. I think that part of my reaction was just fear as I was seeing this poorly thought out decision as the type of thing he would have done when he was using and it scared me. I told him this and we had a good talk about it. I talked with him about how difficult it is sometimes to seperate "normal parenting" vs. "recovery parenting". I would not have thought twice about scolding my son for quitting a job without having another one without the recovery issue being a part of it. That is just good parenting advice on how the world works. I would not have had to have pre-determined consequences, etc.. for this...I would just have been upset with his decision and told him so then cut off any extra money till he got another job. Parenting a young adult in recovery is a little different. As Debilyn said, if we had laid out the consequences if he quit his job up front, maybe he would have thought about it more and acted differently. Unfortunately, we just don't always think about laying out consequences for everything in life. We had just laid out that the deal was we pay for this and you pay for that. In order to pay for "that" he had to have a job. We really didn't think about him quitting it so did not lay out the consequences ahead...live and learn!

Again, we had a really good talk and discussed some things that needed to get out. The day after that, he called and said he had re-read some of the texts he sent me and felt like he needed to make amends to me for some of the things he said. I was very touched by this. Although I did not feel like he needed to make amends I did tell him putting all of his effort into finding another job would mean alot to us. He told me that he is strongly rooted in his sobriety and he couldn't imagine anything happening that would change that. I also apologized for reacting the way I did and threatening to pull something from him that was so important to him. That was not a healthy thing for me to do. He is very excited about the ICYPAA conference in Pheonix in July so I am glad we did not take that away.

Thank you all very much for your suggestions, opinions and advice. It was all taken to heart and I feel much better tonight than the other day when I wrote this.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks for the update. Hope you continue to come back to the board, attend Al-Anon meetings, and continue your recovery as a person affected by this disease. Keep coming back and let us know how things are going for you.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"