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Doesn't sound like he's battling alcoholism. He hasn't even tried to get sober from all you wrote about him. Not sure how this hurts you though. Him trying to work is not a bad thing. It could clue him into how far his disease progressed while he was not working. Most alcohohic get 20x worse when they are unemployed. They get worse anyhow but no job accelerates it.
I guess I wanted to add that his twisted logic and victim mentality doesn't have to hurt you because you are grown and function well regardless. I can understand how much you would just want 1 sane and responsible parent.... But ultimately, you don't need it now and you've worked hard to address not having had it when you did need it.
-- Edited by pinkchip on Sunday 16th of June 2013 06:40:52 AM
Hi, Jim: You are fed up with your Dad because you don't see a resolution to his alcoholism, his cancer or something else? None of us, no matter how much we know, how educated we are, or healthy or rich can see into the heart and mind of another human being. We cannot see because we are only human. We are all like a small grain of sand on the ocean floor. We can only see that part of the ocean whereon we lie. You might not see a resolution, but that doesn't mean there won't be a resolution. I've learned that when I'm fed up with something or someone, I've just reached the end of how I think about something or someone. That's where I can surrender, admit my powerlessness, turn to my HP, ask for a new way of thinking about something or a new way of behaving. When I don't surrender, I make myself more and more miserable. I don't know if this is true for you, but I know its true for me.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Saturday 15th of June 2013 10:11:33 PM
My father goes back to work on Monday after being on disability for depression/alcoholism. This time though he said he has a meeting with HR, his boss, his boss' boss and the rehab person from the insurance company that does his disability insurance.
He sounded surprisingly upbeat about it..?....I then told him that I don't think it's going to be a good news meeting. He said 'well, if they fire me for battling prostate cancer and alcoholism, then they're going to have to pay me for it.
I feel like I am fed up of this. He would always profess about how he's not his father (who was also an alcoholic) and it just seems like he's heading down that exact same path. I am tired of being hurt and watching his hurt himself. I just want this roller-coaster to end.
I found the only way for me to get off that roller-coaster was to detach completely. It was so nice once it happened. My son still has the crisis but its his crisis and I don't get involved at all anymore. How sweet is that. Granted I'm not liking it so much but the pain and hurt is way way better for me.
I pray one of those crisis times will help my son to believe in his heart there is a better way to go.
Take care my friend and Let Go Let God
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Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
I relate to Cathy's post and the growth she tells in it. That is how it works in the program of recovery for ourselves from being willing victims of this disease after we find out we don't have to be. For me I was grateful for my sponsorship teaching me how to change my perspectives of what and how things were going on when I was around my wife or my alcoholic/addict. Learing how not to judge my alcoholic/addict wife as I would a willfully bad person was soul saving. "She's not bad...she's sick" over and over and over again until I got it then got off her back with my expectations that she should be something other than she was. At the times she was that amazing child of God that all alcoholics and addicts are at their tap roots I was grateful and happy for her because then she would be experiencing the world of clean and sober and would want that more that the other. Eventually she wanted it so much she did get clean and sober and HP let her be the metaphor for humility and determination for me. HP is cunning powerful and baffling...trust that because it is true ...HP is higher power than alcoholism when we practice the principles and what we are taught in the rooms. Pray that he doesn't loose his job. That is not what we would want for ourselves. Pray that HP will use HP's cunning powerful and bafflingness to use this toward his sobriety. In between now and then I pray and hope he will hear the voice of sobriety and hook up to what works. In support. ((((hugs))))
Jim: To some degree, I think I understand how hard it is to have a Dad who won't stop drinking when you want him to be healthy and sober. It might hurt less if you could allow yourself to accept that this is who he is right now. In some ways, and I could be wrong about this, it appears you are hurting yourself by wanting your Dad to be somebody he can't be for you. There's always hope that his disease can be arrested - but that is always up to your Dad and his HP.
My Dad is not a drinker, but like all human beings - he has his own issues. I can remember after my Mom died how depressed my Dad got - years after she died. He stopped taking his high blood pressure medicine, ate doughnuts and high carbs daily although he had Diabetes II and his triglycerides would be off the charts. I can remember getting so upset with him because he simply wouldn't do anything to help himself and I knew we were facing the risks of a stroke, heart attack, or Diabetes I. There was nothing I could do. I anguished about it. But, one day I realized that as much as I loved my Dad, he was making his choices - unhealthy as they were - and we were powerless to do anything about it. In some ways, I think he wanted to die - he missed my Mom, he missed his old life, and he was looking into a future of living in a country that glorifies youth and doesn't revere its senior citizens as we once did. Needless to say, he suffered the stroke and other things, but he didn't die.
The point of sharing my story with you is this: By letting go of wanting my Dad to be different than he was, I allowed myself to live life more peacefully - fully aware of the risks to my Dad and fully aware that there was nothing I could do about it or anybody else who loved him either. When he had his stroke, we were there with him through all the horrible days. As he developed dementia and then Alzheimers, we were there with him through those days (and still are as the disease progresses), too. Fortunately, I haven't had to separate myself from him because of any personality changes that are damaging to me (sometimes, they get violent) and I'm just glad to have my Dad - with all his health problems and his issues. I went to visit him yesterday in the assisted living facility that is his home now. He's losing his teeth, skin cancer continues to grow, he has trouble walking and taking care of himself, his friends and family have pretty much all died, he can't remember new information. Yet, he told me he sees himself to be lucky because he's lived to be almost 85.
Your Dad has two major diseases that affect him and those who love him but your Dad also has within him something that keeps his heart pumping and his hopes up. It only takes one second for him to change his mind and get himself into treatment - and he might do that. You just don't know. But, until he does that, try letting go of judging him and try to see him as a human being struggling to make sense of life just like you are. It'll be easier for you and it might help him, too. I don't mean to sound preachy, but my heart just goes out to you and to him. Let go, Jim. Let go.
I feel like some of you are minimizing this as 'no big deal'.
Pinkchip, how is he not battling alcoholism? Unfortunately I don't follow that statement.
I practice detachment. What I meant was that I feel there is just no resolution to this. I am fed up with him.
I dunno Jim. It is no big deal. It's his life. His insanity. His junk. If you view it as a big deal then what? Big deal for who? You? He's always been this way. Big deal for him? Not really cuz he's been in denial a very long time. Sounds like status quo. When I hear the word "battle" I presume the person is entering treatment or going to AA. Even though surrender is what we do to get sober and not battle. It's my issue but when I hear active alcoholics say they are battling their alcoholism I just thing "what?" What battle?...the only battle going on is a bunch of rationalizations and excuses to keep drinking not get sober.
If you take someone elses craziness and make it yours when you don't have to, it will drag you down. You've always accepted he was sick and that you were gonna be well regardless. Can you tell me why this is dragging you down so much more than the other crazy things he's done (that alcoholics all do)? I've seen you be more focused on you and accepting of him even in his state in the past. Not sure what's different.
Also, to my knowledge, they don't give disability for alcoholism. Companies will alllow you to go to rehab using EAP or whatever but not sit at a bar for months, think about buying a bar, and to drink at home daily during that time.
My alcoholism is a chronic condition that I work hard to treat in AA with meetings, service, sponsor so I CAN work. Just speaking for self - I'd have to detach from the martyr complex about his "battle" that stops him from working. Prostate cancer is one thing....That was/is a battle.
So a big crisis...nah...Just ongoing shake your head and sigh kind of thing yes.
There is a 100 percent chance his alcoholism will not end...even if he gets sober it's still there and he will still have some lingering alcoholic traits "isms" as they say. What would happen if you just let it go? If you keep holding out for "an end" to his alcoholism, it will more than likely result in you feeling hurt and uspet continuously. Plus, he has some enjoyable things about him now and he cares about you. Might as well focus on what good is still there so you can enjoy the relationship if possible. If it hurts to much to watch the self-destruction, literal detachment in the form of emotional cutoff is sometimes necessary.
I get that his alcoholism is a big deal. But thats one you've been dealing with for YEARS. His alcoholic behaviors are somewhat to be expected. Big deals for you would be your progress, triumphs, and how you deal with direct challenges in your life, job, relationships. Seeing someone elses struggle as a big crisis and big deal for you...? How does that help? This might even have some positive end result for him. You said he's happy about it. Who knows. This leaves you worried about him more than he is about himself....again. That is the process you want to end right? That's on you.
-- Edited by pinkchip on Sunday 16th of June 2013 07:22:13 AM
One of the long timers in AA uses the whole "there are no big deals" as his motto, .. as I'm not well versed in AA slogans I don't know if that is a slogan or just this person's deal.
I do get what Pink is saying and I hear you as well with your frustration that your dad is still doing what he is doing and it's just like Pink has stated .. it doesn't sound like anything has changed. So how is this different than it was a year ago? He chooses NOT to get well and that is his choice. That's what is so good about Alanon is YOU can get better and it sucks bad that this is your dad and these are the choices he's making .. you are powerless over that fact.
What can you control about this situation? Nothing, .. except you and how you choose to respond to it. I do FULLY get your frustration as dealing with an active A who is the father of my children and I'm trying to untangle myself from him. Some days are better than others, .. the point being I can get stuck in the whole poor me look at this crappy situation I have to deal with and look how he's doing nothing about it. Right now what is keeping me stuck is the divorce that won't end. Once that is over I still have to deal with him because he's the father of my two kids.
I have to find ways to figure out how to do so and NOT get sucked into what is HIS disease. He's still going to do what he's going to do and I am still powerless over the disease of alcoholism. I want to fix manage and control .. guilty as charged. Most of what I want to get into is NONE OF MY BUSINESS.
I really am sorry that this is so hard for you right now, watching a loved one destroy themselves is crappy.
What I constantly hear at the open AA meetings I attend is a woman who says .. P, .. I'm not co-signing your BS .. move along now .. figure out what step you are at and what the next right thing to do is. Ohhhh absolutely she ticks me OFF .. LOL!! I love her even more because of it. P, that is NONE of your business, .. how are YOU? P, really? Ummm .. again .. ticks me off .. I know it's from the heart. I can usually step back and go .. UGH .. I hate that she loves me so much that she tells me the truth. Friends like that really suck at times .. and I wouldn't trade her for a million who will just agree with me.
There is a BIG difference in how RA's speak vs how someone in Alanon speaks. As Alanon I tend to tip toe around to get to the flowers, .. RA's go straight for the flowers and forget about the tip toe. Listen to a couple of speakers you will hear the difference instantly. For me it's a good thing because it shocks me and it absolutely pushes me to do the next right thing. I also know that everything I hear I can take what I like and leave the rest .. that is a very great gift of Alanon I don't have to stay stuck.
Many prayers and good thoughts your way Jim .. I know I really know how hard it is and how I can see what is happening and feel helpless as if no one cares. It doesn't matter what I do until the A in my life decides he wants help and he may never want help. It just is what it is and the only thing I have power over is how I respond to any given situation. Please keep an open mind there is a wealth of healing and caring around here even when it's not what I want to hear, I can reflect back and go .. OHHH .. now I get it.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
hard Jim; not sure if this will help but here's my experience as of late. I was listening to an article read in a forum at one point that was apparently a reply to a spiritual awakening by hp directed to this person. He wrote to her, "You" are not all wise, you are standing in My way. when I read this I began to think.. this is the worst because my experience of hp is that He has placed certain individuals in my life to show me what is in me (Even though it's been Very painful; Most of the pain was my Own) and to allow me to build strength. I am growing stronger because I have been hurt So much and strength is a process. I began to look at one of my children that I want to put in a little plastic bubble to shield her from harm as in damage. I want her Safe, but my Safe is not the same as Gods Safe. For the first time in my recovery, as i hear my hp talking to me, I have been trying to get away and lifting my hand up like, "we're Not going into all that right now." half lol as if I could Stop him from talking to me or me from hearing him at the Level he speaks, too deep for me to Ignore. It's major the Fear of letting go because what he is saying is this, "Strength is built, I don't go poof, willingness comes through PAIN. How do you know?! your child (My child) won't Need strength in the future and Courage and it WONT be there because YOU will be Standing in My way. Undoing everything I am trying to do." I get what I'm being told but wow it is the surrendering and letting go that is the most painful piece. Only just beginning to see how much Courage it really does Take to do Nothing !! It is never easy to watch those we Love suffer. Much easier to do the suffering for them.
This disease is a disease of lyes: That's Not who I am!! I had to tell Myself that forever to survive my own defects. Denial was Such a Huge gift to me. (Never knew hp could love me so much to allow such a thing).. Denial standing for: Don't Even Know' I Am Lying (to myself) .. My own behavior parallels the addicts in many ways. All things work together for those who trust HP in an alanon meeting. Nothing will be waisted for us as long as we work the steps. Our Seemingly meaningless and Unnecessary struggles can and will be turned into something Meaningful Finally that produces Much fruit !!>
Pinkchip, I guess what has me upset is last weekend my dad asked 'Do you feel that you missed out on anything because of my drinking?'. He was totally looking for a reason to hit the bottle. So i unequivocally said 'Yes. Your drinking affected my sense of self-esteem and self-worth' or something to that extent and it's got me upset now thinking about past missed opportunities. How I should have been spending my youth building the roots of my current life and instead I was worrying about fixing him and our family and ignoring my needs sometimes at his insistence. So, yes I feel his drinking has f**king cost me dearly. He has the nerve to question it.
I feel like this new phase in his disease brought up some of that old anger. Even though I have been able to put the pieces of my life back together slowly, I am tired of being bitter and angry and feeling this sense of emptiness, loneliness and hopelessness. I don't know what it is and what to do to change it. I am tired and frustrated of being 'stuck' as Jerry F has mentioned in some of my past threads. No amount of detachment seems to make it go away. The one constant in life is change and although my life has changed over the years for the positive, this doesn't seem to be going away.
" I am tired of being bitter and angry and feeling this sense of emptiness, loneliness and hopelessness. I don't know what it is and what to do to change it. I am tired and frustrated of being 'stuck' as Jerry F has mentioned in some of my past threads. No amount of detachment seems to make it go away. The one constant in life is change and although my life has changed over the years for the positive, this doesn't seem to be going away. "
Right here for me says it all .. and unfortunately there is nothing except working the steps and letting go completely and totally. And as I type this I think .. CRAP .. I needed this thread more than you know.
It's the peeling of the onion when I think that ok .. I've got a handle on this .. something new hits me and drags the old crap up .. UGH! I HATE IT!!! It is frustrating and every once in a while I get that whole feeling of .. WHY do I have to do ALL of the changing?! Because ... I am powerless over other people, things and places. I would rather have a tantrum and say THEY have to and need to change for ONCE!! LOL .. good luck with that and I will let you know how that is working for me .. it hasn't so far.
It's a daily process and I don't have to do it all at once .. it is progress not perfection.
Keep coming back .. it does and will get better .. it's a new level of healing and I don't believe you are stuck as you think you are really. It's a new awareness and a new way to have to deal with the same issues. I say often .. my circumstances haven't changed (I sure can't go back and get the childhood I deserve) my perceptions have changed and I can see things in a more adult way and soothe my own inner child instead of expecting that my parents will do that for me. They couldn't at the time and they still can't even now.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
Forgiveness is a process. As long as you are willing, your HP can take it from there. Today's Step 6 that Betty posted may be a help to you? Maybe your HP is preparing you for Step 7? Lots of encouragement and acceptance of how you're feeling today.
